OT: What other Canadian cities could support MLS teams?

[Tom ServoMST3K]

If we're dreaming about eventually wedging pro-rel in a country of this size and population with the three biggest markets already monopolising interest for a foreign league, I see it being a ridiculously greater logistical hurdle than what the CFL has to contend with for stability. Honestly it comes off as absurd to think about even in the medium term and by that point it might very well implode before having to consider long-term planning.

Yeah, my dreams are dumb. That's why I called them out as dumb.

Realistically their "long-term" goals are for a 10 team league that draws sustainable TV numbers in Canada and has solid attendance (10,000-15,000 per game). Each team will develop and sell good Canadian players to clubs around the world, slowly giving a bigger profile and budget to the league.

Competitively they'll hope to eventually give MLS teams a scare in the Voyageurs Cup. (I'd be in favour of disqualifying MLS teams from that competition, as they play in a USA based league - but I'm just a salty prairie fan that's been cut off from pro soccer, so that's complete fantasy as well.)

And by long term, I mean they will try to reach those goals in under 10 years.

Short term it's pretty simple - Survive the first five years without completely collapsing

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Ideally, 20-30 years from now - There are no MLS teams in Canada - Only CPL teams in a 2.5-tier relegation league.

and while I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony, a million dollars, and a magical pegasus so I can ride off into the sunset wearing a giant top hat.

Ideally, CPL gets to the point where its attractive to three Canadian MLS teams to make a jump. I think MLS would happily let them go, too. More room for US expansion.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Ideally, CPL gets to the point where its attractive to three Canadian MLS teams to make a jump. I think MLS would happily let them go, too. More room for US expansion.

The MLS teams in Canada would need a lot of convincing to make that happen. It's why I'm so dismissive of it happening.

I heard murmurs that the MLS teams in Canada tried to lobby the CSA to prevent this league from starting up. While they are only rumours and hearsay on random internet forums, I kinda believe them.

The idea that The Vancouver Whitecaps tried to prevent me as a fan from watching a local professional team fills me with so much hatred for them - in a healthy, sports rivalry way - that I don't even care if it's true or not

 

[cutchemist42]

I personally think this league never gets to pro/rel, even if it's a closed pro/rel system. These teams paid decent expansion fees( I know they arent using that term) and all of the reasons MLS fans say geography makes it impossible applies even more to a league with smaller attendance and like limited TV money.

I mean, say what you want about the attendance but the CFL still gets decent TV ratings in the larger markets. CPL already has the 3 largest TV markets out of the picture when negotiating with TSN/SN/etc so I just have trouble picturing where the money comes from to be a league at a high level.

The above opinion changes a bit if Montreal caves as an MLS market as I buy the MLS fandoms opinion that MLS behind doors would like a franchise from Canada back to help theirAmerican growth more.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I personally think this league never gets to pro/rel, even if it's a closed pro/rel system. These teams paid decent expansion fees( I know they arent using that term) and all of the reasons MLS fans say geography makes it impossible applies even more to a league with smaller attendance and like limited TV money.

I mean, say what you want about the attendance but the CFL still gets decent TV ratings in the larger markets. CPL already has the 3 largest TV markets out of the picture when negotiating with TSN/SN/etc so I just have trouble picturing where the money comes from to be a league at a high level.

The above opinion changes a bit if Montreal caves as an MLS market as I buy the MLS fandoms opinion that MLS behind doors would like a franchise from Canada back to help theirAmerican growth more.

See Welsh Premier League. The two biggest clubs in Wales play in English football system and thus Welsh league is irrelevant.

 

[DoyleG]

The MLS teams in Canada would need a lot of convincing to make that happen. It's why I'm so dismissive of it happening.

I heard murmurs that the MLS teams in Canada tried to lobby the CSA to prevent this league from starting up. While they are only rumours and hearsay on random internet forums, I kinda believe them.

The idea that The Vancouver Whitecaps tried to prevent me as a fan from watching a local professional team fills me with so much hatred for them - in a healthy, sports rivalry way - that I don't even care if it's true or not

Bill Manning's comments about pizza places was certainly worth a bunch of laughs. Especially more so as TFC is looking more like the jokes as it seems the team is starting to come undone. The Whitecaps have dumped on the league as they want it to be a development league and are unhappy that the CPL isn't "cooperating".

MLS is happy with just having the 3 teams as it gives them the most TV revenue. Adding another city wouldn't help.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

See Welsh Premier League. The two biggest clubs in Wales play in English football system and thus Welsh league is irrelevant.

The Welsh league still has enough broad local interest in the sport to have SOME kind of presence in those cities even with a larger league's presence directly overlapping them. Vancouver and Montreal didn't even have enough local grassroots interest to sustain their own academy teams. In Montreal's case not even when they were giving tickets away for free.

The Welsh league also doesn't need to trek teams from the equivalent of Victoria to Halifax on a regular basis just to get a season in. The logistics aren't anything close to comparable for the budgets being allocated. Christ forbid slashing it down even further with potentially lower levels of the pyramid in a pro-rel structure.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Montreal might be interesting to follow as I think there is a high likelihood Saputo will not receive the concessions he will want to improve his soccer stadium (worst in the league) and attempt to remain competitive in MLS. Right now, he is losing millions and with all these new soccer stadiums coming on line, the Impact will fall further behind almost every other franchise. I can see him selling to an American investor in the next 5 years and the Impact being relocated to an American city.

For what it's worth, the Impact drew well in a lower league prior to the arrival of MLS. If the team relocates expect to see Montreal in the CSL shortly thereafter.

 

[cutchemist42]

Montreal just becomes a tougher market too when the Expos come back. I'd sell high now as I buy the reports that getting the new stadium there will be tough.

CPL would like it as it gets them a big market team.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I thought Edmonton was a big Soccer Town? Lots of CONCACAF games with decent attendance at Commonwealth?
Soccer IMO is a Niche sport for The Prarries of Saskatchewan/Manitoba. Hockey is King CFL Football is the Queen..anything else is just background noise

Edmonton does okay for soccer. City had FC Edmonton as the lone team in the NASL until that league folded a year ago, but they are launching as members of the CPL. Ownership of FC Edmonton, the Fath Group, seem to be doing it more as a labour of love than for any real profits though. Attendance has been... adequate.

But really, with the CPL, I don't see the Canada Soccer Association approving any new MLS teams.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Montreal might be interesting to follow as I think there is a high likelihood Saputo will not receive the concessions he will want to improve his soccer stadium (worst in the league) and attempt to remain competitive in MLS. Right now, he is losing millions and with all these new soccer stadiums coming on line, the Impact will fall further behind almost every other franchise. I can see him selling to an American investor in the next 5 years and the Impact being relocated to an American city.

For what it's worth, the Impact drew well in a lower league prior to the arrival of MLS. If the team relocates expect to see Montreal in the CSL shortly thereafter.

Hopefully intellectual property of Montreal Impact stays in Montreal and moves on to CPL.

 

[Hockeyholic]

MLS would be successful in Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton if they won.

 

[End on a Hinote]

For what I've heard the only other Canadian market that fans believe could realistically and successfully support an MLS team is Ottawa.

Good market size, little pro sport competition, provincial rivalry with TFC, "local" rivalry with Montreal.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

For what I've heard the only other Canadian market that fans believe could realistically and successfully support an MLS team is Ottawa.

Good market size, little pro sport competition, provincial rivalry with TFC, "local" rivalry with Montreal.

With the Senators being what they are, do you realistically think an expansion MLS Team in Ottawa is wise

 

[End on a Hinote]

With the Senators being what they are, do you realistically think an expansion MLS Team in Ottawa is wise

If they were to have competent management, and a stadium within downtown Ottawa (which they already have), they should be fine. The Redblacks seem to be doing OK, and that's in a market that failed there twice.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

just because the REDBLACKS are fine, EoaH, doesn't mean MLS OR Ottawa ARE interested in starting another team

 

[End on a Hinote]

just because the REDBLACKS are fine, EoaH, doesn't mean MLS OR Ottawa ARE interested in starting another team

I never said I though they were interested, I just said that fans think Ottawa could support a team...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I never said they were interested, I just said that fans think Ottawa could support a team...

but as with all teams, you have to convince a league or get an ownership interested in that endeavor

 

[End on a Hinote]

but as with all teams, you have to convince a league or get an ownership interested in that endeavor

Yes I know, and I actually think they should consider discussing it. But the biggest reason, IMO, why it wouldn't happen right now (if not ever) is that the league is still looking to grow in large US market like Detroit and non-Big 4 cities like Louisville, etc. and the new CPL league may prevent further Canadian MLS expansion.

 

[HugoSimon]

I personally think this league never gets to pro/rel, even if it's a closed pro/rel system. These teams paid decent expansion fees( I know they arent using that term) and all of the reasons MLS fans say geography makes it impossible applies even more to a league with smaller attendance and like limited TV money..

Pro/Reg would be fine, once they approach having 12-20 teams nationally.

It actually makes more sense, if you consider the CHL model. Have 3 tier 2 leagues in the east west and central Canada.

Small time owners would be more than floored having the option of jumping down to a lesser league to save on operating costs.

I
I mean, say what you want about the attendance but the CFL still gets decent TV ratings in the larger markets. CPL already has the 3 largest TV markets out of the picture when negotiating with TSN/SN/etc so I just have trouble picturing where the money comes from to be a league at a high level..

I can't imagine the CSA tolerating MLS trying to blackout their league. \

It seems like the exact type of thing that would get MLS in hot water with FIFA.

You can't both be playing in a foreign league and argue the national league should be blacked out at the same time.

I
The above opinion changes a bit if Montreal caves as an MLS market as I buy the MLS fandoms opinion that MLS behind doors would like a franchise from Canada back to help theirAmerican growth more.

Even TFC would have good reason to jump over to the CPL. MLS salaries are not actually that high on average. So its entirely probable to compete directly if they could ever muster up a proper national tv contract.

If TFC could "sell the team" for 300 mill and enter the CPL for free it's a no brainer that they might take that option.

Especially if TFC gets burned out trying to compete against american clubs and coming up with nothing.