OT: OT Thread Part 8: The Home of Weird Internet Stuff

[Fourier]

a grand total of 25% of the population...plus who knows how many people got Covid and recovered and figured their immune system doesn't need the vax now that their immune system has fought it off
so what's the threshold? 80%? 90%?

CDC is suggesting that the delta variant may be as contagious as chicken pox. So it could well be that the threshold is 90%. However, this is just speculation. In fact, that is not the issue. The point is that the more people who get vaccinated the more normal life can be.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

In Alberta, there clearly is no plan.

This is not something you can simply wish away. There is a solution, take the vaccine. Since there is no support for a universal government mandate from the vast majority of even the most ardent vaccine supporters the next best answer is to limit access to various aspects of society to anyone, with very few exceptons, who refuses the vaccine. We are already seeing major corporations doing just that.

Ken Langone was on Sqwak Box talking about this. For those who don't know who he is, he is a billionaire who provided much of the seed funding to start Home Depot. He is also a died in the wool conservative and a major donor to the US Republican Party. He supported Trump until the Capitol Riots so you know he is no liberal. But in addition he is a major hands-on benefactor of the NYU School of Medicine and their Medical Center including being a major driving force behind there "free-tuition" policy so he is well informed about all aspects of health care. Here is his position on this:

Get vaccinated or fired — Ken Langone says his businesses will mandate it after full FDA approval (cnbc.com)

As similar stance was taken by Danny Meyer:

Danny Meyer’s Union Square Hospitality Group to require indoor diners show proof of Covid shots (cnbc.com)

This one hits home because it is not just employees but anyone who wants to eat at one of their restaurants. And form there you can add on Google, Facebook, Lyft, Uber, Blackrock, Morgan Stanely,...

Ask yourself, why would Uber make such a policy. The answer is pretty clear. The vast majority of people beliee in teh vaccines and would be more likley to us their service if they thought it would be safe.

The reality is that businesses will probably do what governments won't because they know it is in their own best interests. Of course this will be met with cries of "my rights" but the reality is that no one has the absolute right to eat at Shake Shack or to attend and NHL hokey game or to work at Google.

I have absolutely no problem with businesses enforcing their employees to get the vaccine, that's their business to run as they see fit
but to expect a 90% vaccine take-up is impossible IMO

 

[ZJuice]

I have cousins that smoke joints and cigs 24/7 that are anti-vaccine because the vaccine wasn’t “tested long enough”.. yet they burn their lungs and embed them with carcinogens when they are stressed. Awesome! We have had three grand parents in this family die of lung cancer after suffering for years and years, but they are scared of a potentially life saving flu shot because it has DNA in the name

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

CDC is suggesting that the delta variant may be as contagious as chicken pox. So it could well be that the threshold is 90%. However, this is just speculation. In fact, that is not the issue. The point is that the more people who get vaccinated the more normal life can be.

and yet the UK had "Freedom Day" like 3 weeks ago despite the Delta variant there and only like 52% of the people fully-vaxxed (at the time)
cases haven't gone up and in fact have come down since then
there's only so much a government can do, so many lotteries and "gifts" they can hand out or scare tactics they can use

 

[Fourier]

and yet the UK had "Freedom Day" like 3 weeks ago despite the Delta variant there and only like 52% of the people fully-vaxxed (at the time)
cases haven't gone up and in fact have come down since then
there's only so much a government can do, so many lotteries and "gifts" they can hand out or scare tactics they can use

At this point it's not the governments responsibility to convince every last person to get vaccinated. Their responnsibility is to get people the opportunity and to provide them with information that will calm legitimate concerns. So far the first part has been accomplished, but the second is far less of a success. The real responsibilty is with the individual. Most people who are not yet vaccinated have few if any excuses other than I just don't want to.

 

[Lacaar]

I have cousins that smoke joints and cigs 24/7 that are anti-vaccine because the vaccine wasn’t “tested long enough”.. yet they burn their lungs and embed them with carcinogens when they are stressed. Awesome! We have had three grand parents in this family die of lung cancer after suffering for years and years, but they are scared of a potentially life saving flu shot because it has DNA in the name

I have relatives in the same boat.. smokers that don't want the vaccine thinking it's dangerous.

It's like watching Evel Knievel do the most rediculous stunts then balk at doing a pop a wheelie for safety concerns haha.

It all reminds me of a quote from a book I read called Wizard's first rule by Terry Goodkind.

"People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

I have cousins that smoke joints and cigs 24/7 that are anti-vaccine because the vaccine wasn’t “tested long enough”.. yet they burn their lungs and embed them with carcinogens when they are stressed. Awesome! We have had three grand parents in this family die of lung cancer after suffering for years and years, but they are scared of a potentially life saving flu shot because it has DNA in the name

We can’t save stupid unfortunately.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

and yet the UK had "Freedom Day" like 3 weeks ago despite the Delta variant there and only like 52% of the people fully-vaxxed (at the time)
cases haven't gone up and in fact have come down since then
there's only so much a government can do, so many lotteries and "gifts" they can hand out or scare tactics they can use

Watching how much governments have failed trying to control this virus and fail l, I feel like now that the vaccine is here we have to let it run it’s course.

It’s starting to feel like the war on drugs. Billions of dollars and resources spent that will get you no where.

 

[oilers'72]

In Alberta, there clearly is no plan.

This is not something you can simply wish away. There is a solution, take the vaccine. Since there is no support for a universal government mandate from the vast majority of even the most ardent vaccine supporters the next best answer is to limit access to various aspects of society to anyone, with very few exceptons, who refuses the vaccine. We are already seeing major corporations doing just that.

Ken Langone was on Sqwak Box talking about this. For those who don't know who he is, he is a billionaire who provided much of the seed funding to start Home Depot. He is also a died in the wool conservative and a major donor to the US Republican Party. He supported Trump until the Capitol Riots so you know he is no liberal. But in addition he is a major hands-on benefactor of the NYU School of Medicine and their Medical Center including being a major driving force behind there "free-tuition" policy so he is well informed about all aspects of health care. Here is his position on this:

Get vaccinated or fired — Ken Langone says his businesses will mandate it after full FDA approval (cnbc.com)

As similar stance was taken by Danny Meyer:

Danny Meyer’s Union Square Hospitality Group to require indoor diners show proof of Covid shots (cnbc.com)

This one hits home because it is not just employees but anyone who wants to eat at one of their restaurants. And form there you can add on Google, Facebook, Lyft, Uber, Blackrock, Morgan Stanely,...

Ask yourself, why would Uber make such a policy. The answer is pretty clear. The vast majority of people beliee in teh vaccines and would be more likley to us their service if they thought it would be safe.

The reality is that businesses will probably do what governments won't because they know it is in their own best interests. Of course this will be met with cries of "my rights" but the reality is that no one has the absolute right to eat at Shake Shack or to attend and NHL hokey game or to work at Google.

Let's not bring politics into this again.

 

[Stoneman89]

Watching how much governments have failed trying to control this virus and fail l, I feel like now that the vaccine is here we have to let it run it’s course.

It’s starting to feel like the war on drugs. Billions of dollars and resources spent that will get you no where.

I agree. I've said before, I wish everybody would get vaccinated, but if a certain segment of the population does not want to take the jab, then I don't want the ones that drew the unlucky number from that group to clog up the hospitals, so that the rest of us are impacted by lack of access for operations and treatment. I wish more places would have restrictions on entry or activities for vaxed and un-vaxed, especially at larger, more crowed events. This will be much more important as winter approaches. Due to the amount of non-vaxers, it looks like it's going to take a bit longer time for the virus to run it's course, and clean up the dead-wood in a Darwinian fashion.

 

[Stoneman89]

I have absolutely no problem with businesses enforcing their employees to get the vaccine, that's their business to run as they see fit
but to expect a 90% vaccine take-up is impossible IMO

Lotteries, idle threats, and information may not work for these people, but if enough of the bolded occurs, that might be a strong enough incentive. Most people like to work, make money and feed themselves.

 

[bellagiobob]

a grand total of 25% of the population...plus who knows how many people got Covid and recovered and figured their immune system doesn't need the vax now that their immune system has fought it off
so what's the threshold? 80%? 90%?

80% of the population has been suggested from what I’ve read. We are a bit over 60%. At this point I really don’t give a shit what happens to the AV’s health wise, it’s their choice, all I care about now is how hospitalizations effect those of us who are vaccinated and our ability to access health resources (surgeries, etc) and if further restrictions affect our businesses again. People are at a boiling point, and this time the anger will be pointed in a singular direction.

 

[Stoneman89]

so no endgame in sight then...so much for the vaccines being the way out

The are..and will be. It's just that with some non-compliance, it will take longer to be rid of this and in the clear. Unfortunately, it will take a bunch more infections, sickness and death( for the unfortunate of the un-vaxed) before that happens. Completely avoidable, but hey, nature will have to take it's course.

 

[Fourier]

Let's not bring politics into this again.

The intention was not to suggest that anyone's politics was right or wrong but rather that vaccine mandates are accepted by business people across political spectrums.

 

[oilers'72]

The intention was not to suggest that anyone's politics was right or wrong but rather that vaccine mandates are accepted by business people across political spectrums.

But putting one's political position and then making reference to something totally unrelated to the discussion is why those threads got shut down.

Edited: the reference was in the next sentence.

 

[Fourier]

I have absolutely no problem with businesses enforcing their employees to get the vaccine, that's their business to run as they see fit
but to expect a 90% vaccine take-up is impossible IMO

The expectation has never been 90%. But that is what it might take to really stamp this out.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

The expectation has never been 90%. But that is what it might take to really stamp this out.

Or running it’s course through the unvaccinated.

 

[Fourier]

Or running it’s course through the unvaccinated.

That could take several years. There are going to be about 6-7M unvaccinated Canadians over the age of 12 in September. To have 1/2 of them get covid would be 3-3.5M more cases.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

That could take several years. There are going to be about 6-7M unvaccinated Canadians over the age of 12 in September. To have 1/2 of them get covid would be 3-3.5M more cases.

Yes I am expecting it to take several years. I don’t expect covid to go away anytime sooner.

 

[Stoneman89]

That could take several years. There are going to be about 6-7M unvaccinated Canadians over the age of 12 in September. To have 1/2 of them get covid would be 3-3.5M more cases.

Unless a vaccine is developed soon that is suitable for them as well.

 

[Fourier]

Yes I am expecting it to take several years. I don’t expect covid to go away anytime sooner.

Herd immunity will not erradicate the virus but it could make the endemic virus managable with minimal to no intervention. Assuming we get to 80% with a hypothetical herd immunity threshold of 90%, what would be quicker and better for everyone, having 3M people more decidde to get vaccinated or waiting for 3M more people to get infected?

I don't think covid will go away either. But to allow this to cut unchecked through half of 6M unvaccinated people is not going to be pretty.

 

[Fourier]

Unless a vaccine is developed soon that is suitable for them as well.

Is there any chance that will happen? I have no idea what such a vaccine would even look like.

 

[Sensmileletsgo]

Herd immunity will not erradicate the virus but it could make the endemic virus managable with minimal to no intervention. Assuming we get to 80% with a hypothetical herd immunity threshold of 90%, what would be quicker and better for everyone, having 3M people more decidde to get vaccinated or waiting for 3M more people to get infected?

I don't think covid will go away either. But to allow this to cut unchecked through half of 6M unvaccinated people is not going to be pretty.

Absolutely, 100% agree. Everyone should get vaccinated.

How do we manage this though? Take away rights from people who aren’t vaccinated? I’d prefer if we didn’t do that because we have a democracy and it will get messy.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Stoneman89]

Is there any chance that will happen? I have no idea what such a vaccine would even look like.

Apparently they have been working on it for some time.

When will children under 12 be vaccinated against COVID-19?

"Both Pfizer and Moderna have begun clinical trials of their COVID-19 vaccines in children as young as six months old, with Pfizer expecting first results in July and full results in September. The company said it hoped to see younger children getting vaccinated in early 2022."