OT: RIM Is Not Doing Well

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MayDay

Registered User
Oct 21, 2005
12,661
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Pleasantville, NY
Anymore? Like in recent times due to health issues? I was referring to his triumphant return after being away, watching the company nearly die (in techno terms).

I was referring to Woz.

Woz was the technical guy with a lot of the ideas in the beginning, and like you said, he did not really stick around through the transition.

Jobs was always more of a salesman than a technical guy.

At least, that's my understanding.
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
25,444
19,579
Waterloo Ontario
Point still is, he could live the rest of his life in complete comfort, if the company was worth zero today. I'd be shocked if he didn't have several million stashed away for his rainyday fund. Which may be just a few weeks away, but most likely not.

Edit to add: I've stated before that JR should send JB a case of Dom. evey Christmas, for putting up the roadblocks in Phoenix. I guess it is only fair that JB now send that case on to Bettman for blocking JB's attempts to acquire the team. I could just imagine the pickle he'd be in today. I'm guessing he would have had to heavily leverage his shares to comeup with the cash to pay everyone and move the Coyotes. With the RIM shares having fallen so much, he'd be in a jam today.

JB has been on an automatic share disposition plan for quite sometime. Based on the number of shares he is listed to have today I would say he has sold 6-8M shares in the last couple of years. This is somewhere in the $300-500M range I would say. He still owns abot 27M shares.
 

Fugu

Guest
Woz was never in a management role at AAPL. He left early (in 1981 after a small plane crash) and went back to school and when he returned in 1983 it was largely in a technical position. He left again in 1987 - although he technically remains an Apple employee.

And Jobs really wasn't the exception. He stepped down when he hired ex-pepsi exec John Sculley as CEO in 1983. Scully forced Jobs out in 1985 and there was a string of less than successful CEOs (Scully, Spindler, Amelio) before Jobs returned to AAPL through the acquisition of NeXT in 1996. He became interim and then permanent CEO after the board ousted Gil Amelio in 1997.

Yes, he was the exception in that in many cases with technical start-ups, the guys with the original idea cash out, or stay on as CTO or on the board, but give up the management reigns to 'professional' managers. What my usage of "exception" meant is that he actually left and then came back to become CEO again. He was the original visionary for the company in the first go-around as well. However, he was more than a business guy because he actually was very involved in the product development.

Bill Gates, while not having the original OS that launched Microsoft, indeed was an avid programmer and computer geek-- thanks to a computer his private jr high school acquired. That's how he and Allen got interested.
 

CanadianDestroyer

Registered User
Oct 3, 2006
253
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Edmonton
Not surprised. Blackberry is well out of date and they haven't shown any attempts to actually modernize.

Pretty much this. They are absolutely dragging their feet in the smartphone market. A market they practically founded many years ago. The Torch was kind of the beginning of the end because everyone was like "That's it? That's what you are bringing to the table?". The Playbook was even more of a misstep in terms of brand direction.
 

MayDay

Registered User
Oct 21, 2005
12,661
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Just putting this chart here.

chart-of-the-day-blackberry-market-share-june-2011.jpg
 

Fugu

Guest
Purely anecdotal observation, but BB may do better in countries with better service packages for business users. One of my colleagues from Australia said his wife switched from BB to iPhone, went to Europe on a trip and racked up a $2000 access bill from downloading email. She hadn't realized that her plan with the iPhone wasn't as friendly as the one she had for the BB (same service provider) whilst out of the country. I actually was surprised how little it cost to have global services with Telstra if you used the BB. I have an iPhone, and at least got the unlimited data plan which is now grandfathered, or I'd have to boot my kids off my plan to keep me out of the poor house. Americans simply get ripped off when roaming out of the country.
 

RandR

Registered User
May 15, 2011
1,901
411
Pretty much this. They are absolutely dragging their feet in the smartphone market. A market they practically founded many years ago. The Torch was kind of the beginning of the end because everyone was like "That's it? That's what you are bringing to the table?". The Playbook was even more of a misstep in terms of brand direction.
Agreed.

And the Playbook launch, first delayed when the iPad initially came out, and then being released without any apps (even for email of all things), looks like they are just playing catchup in the tablet space instead of doing anything research-wise or market-wise to advance that space.
 

Gobias Industries

Registered User
Aug 29, 2007
12,042
31
Toronto
It's hard to admit, but this could be the beginning of the end...as much as some analysts are finding it undervalued given current earnings, projections are going to take a hit at some point..

It really is said from a national standpoint, tens of thousands of jobs will likely be lost as a result of the entire eco-system of tech companies in Waterloo crumbling with RIM...

As a consumer, I love seeing how efficient the market has become...RIM slips for about a year and a half (Dec 2009 - Bold 9700), has no high end releases, muddles about with too many models, and then it's basically over...

If QNX comes out when their market share has declined to an irreparable point, it's going to be too late...the interest will have been lost...

I don't think any blame can be placed on the two-CEO system, but I think that with cost-cutting that is going to come hard over the next year you're going to see one of Balsillie / Lazaridis (likely Balsillie) step down...
 

jessebelanger

Registered User
Feb 18, 2009
2,361
4
Purely anecdotal observation, but BB may do better in countries with better service packages for business users. One of my colleagues from Australia said his wife switched from BB to iPhone, went to Europe on a trip and racked up a $2000 access bill from downloading email. She hadn't realized that her plan with the iPhone wasn't as friendly as the one she had for the BB (same service provider) whilst out of the country. I actually was surprised how little it cost to have global services with Telstra if you used the BB. I have an iPhone, and at least got the unlimited data plan which is now grandfathered, or I'd have to boot my kids off my plan to keep me out of the poor house. Americans simply get ripped off when roaming out of the country.

Fugu - you don't even want to look at the plans that Canadian companies offer :laugh:

It would blow your mind what we get charged.

This illustrates the typical international roaming fees that our companies try to charge.

http://i.imgur.com/DobTi.png

Yes, that is 750$ for 100MB of international roaming.
 

Fugu

Guest
Fugu - you don't even want to look at the plans that Canadian companies offer :laugh:

It would blow your mind what we get charged.

This illustrates the typical international roaming fees that our companies try to charge.

http://i.imgur.com/DobTi.png

Yes, that is 750$ for 100MB of international roaming.


You're Canadian .... my wireless keyboard is dying so I cannot insert a question mark ... and have to use the period on the number pad

Guess what I'm doing today...


At least iPhone is moving past the sole service provider model they had with ATT. I guess I was shocked at how reasonable the Aussie rates were for roaming outside the country, and that includes voice and data. Not sure how bad it is for Europeans.
 

Im Old Gregggg

Registered User
Jun 22, 2010
4,157
1
Kitchener, On
Really dissapointed in the downfall of the blackberry, apple and android phones are gainning steam everyday , BB is behind the ball hopefully they can rebound, but this really isnt looking to good.

Theres an old business metaphore (paraphrasing of course*) that you have to keep an eye on your cheese, if you dont frequently, it may be gone before you notice.... RIM was very comfortable on top of their mountain, didnt care to look at who was bringing what to the table and have lost their cheese to those people, gotta be open to change and continue to be an innovator rather then playing catchup... especially in the tech market can become outdatted REAL quick.


Will really be a sad day if and when this ultimately leads to their demise, especially in K/W where they are a staple in the community.
 

SuperDave21

Hockey Paradise
Jul 30, 2004
1,490
0
Scottsdale, AZ
Another IT guy adding his two cents...

Like I mentioned in the other BB thread, the OS and hardware are out of date. My company moved away from BB years ago and went with other solutions that were cheaper. Over the last year, we have been moving everything to Google. The transition hasn't been as painful as we thought, and no one understands why we had BES in the first place. It's archaic and abundantly over priced for what is offered. Apple and Android will be the go-to mobile devices for a long time to come.

I think the next radical change on the horizon is virtualization, and RIM has shown absolutely no effort to hop on board. They just now entered the tablet arena (welcome to 2009 fellas) and their updated OS is too little, too late. I said it in the last thread, and I'll say it again: RIM will be dead in 5 years, if not less. No one should be surprised by their earnings (or lack thereof) if you really look at the market. I don't know anyone who has a BB handset right now...that speaks volumes in my environment.
 

SuperDave21

Hockey Paradise
Jul 30, 2004
1,490
0
Scottsdale, AZ
It's hard to admit, but this could be the beginning of the end...as much as some analysts are finding it undervalued given current earnings, projections are going to take a hit at some point..

It really is said from a national standpoint, tens of thousands of jobs will likely be lost as a result of the entire eco-system of tech companies in Waterloo crumbling with RIM...

As a consumer, I love seeing how efficient the market has become...RIM slips for about a year and a half (Dec 2009 - Bold 9700), has no high end releases, muddles about with too many models, and then it's basically over...

If QNX comes out when their market share has declined to an irreparable point, it's going to be too late...the interest will have been lost...

I don't think any blame can be placed on the two-CEO system, but I think that with cost-cutting that is going to come hard over the next year you're going to see one of Balsillie / Lazaridis (likely Balsillie) step down...

The bolded statement is disconcerting for any company; especially a company related to IT/technology. There's an industry saying in the information technology world that goes, "The only constant in IT is change." RIM has yet to embrace the change of smartphone technology, and adapt accordingly. They stood around holding their ****s in their hand while the world passed them by. It's really arrogant when you think about it. The old, "We don't need to change because we have been so successful in the past," kind of mentality. If they had made changes when the original iPhone hit the market, they may have been saved. But, they didn't, and the Android OS came out and put the final nail in the coffin for RIM. It's all over but the crying now...
 

JMROWE

Registered User
Apr 2, 2010
1,372
52
Hamilton Ontario
MOD

RIM stock is down yes but every major corparation gose through rough patches time to time & I belive RIM. will recover from this & will make them stronger company in the future also last time I checked RIM. was still making money .
 
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Nashvols

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
1,726
33
Nashville
Surprise Surprise another Balsille bashing page do some of you people have nothing better but to bash Balsille & his company all because he wants bring an NHL. team to Hamilton . RIM stock is down yes but every major corparation gose through rough patches time to time & I belive RIM. will recover from this & will make them stronger company in the future also last time I checked RIM. was still making money .

Wow.
 

RandR

Registered User
May 15, 2011
1,901
411
RIM stock is down yes but every major corparation gose through rough patches time to time & I belive RIM. will recover from this & will make them stronger company in the future also last time I checked RIM. was still making money .
Well RIM stock is certainly priced quite cheaply right now in terms of earnings, so it could be considered a buying opportunity for anyone willing to bet that this is just a rough patch for them.

However,
Just about everyone advises caution at the very least — with the likelihood that the worst is not over for RIM's stock price.

Are RIM shares now a buy?

I would at least wait to see if they can demonstrate that they know how to steer out of the rapids they've encountered for at least a year now. I'm not yet convinced at all.
 

DeathToAllButMetal

Let it all burn.
May 13, 2010
1,361
0
You'd have to be bananas to buy RIM even now. Long way to fall yet. The only people I see with BBs these days are government employees and politicians, who are always a couple of years behind the trends. Just about every techie and IT guy I know went to a droid last year.
 

berklon

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
1,542
359
You'd have to be bananas to buy RIM even now. Long way to fall yet. The only people I see with BBs these days are government employees and politicians, who are always a couple of years behind the trends. Just about every techie and IT guy I know went to a droid last year.

You can't be serious.

I work in downtown Toronto and every second person I see has a BB, and they're not all government employees and politicians. BB's are huge in the financial sector - it's my company's preferred device (due to security) and we have around 100,000 employees worldwide. The same scenario plays out for other companies where my friends work. I'm actually surprised at how many kids I see with BB's.
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
23,546
2,006
MOD

RIM stock is down yes but every major corparation gose through rough patches time to time & I belive RIM. will recover from this & will make them stronger company in the future also last time I checked RIM. was still making money .
RIM is done. Stop.
 

nomorekids

The original, baby
Feb 28, 2003
33,375
107
Nashville, TN
www.twitter.com
You can't be serious.

I work in downtown Toronto and every second person I see has a BB, and they're not all government employees and politicians. BB's are huge in the financial sector - it's my company's preferred device (due to security) and we have around 100,000 employees worldwide. The same scenario plays out for other companies where my friends work. I'm actually surprised at how many kids I see with BB's.

You can take what you think you see on the streets, but I work in the industry. Blackberry is a more expensive platform to operate and an inferior product. Five years ago, you couldn't get by without them, but now, they're a sinking ship from a corporate perspective, and everyone in my fairly sizable network of well-placed colleagues is taking their business elsewhere. You're pissing money away to stick with them. Their reputation is bad enough tha the would have to do something groundbreaking to even start getting consideration again.
 
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