OT: Rant against the CRTC and Sports Programming

[MarkGio]

I think you're building a strawman. I'm not against Canadian content, I very much support the CBC whenever the topic comes up. I think there's a market for things like Nature of Things (and Suzuki's stature is a testament to that market). But I don't think being able to watch TBS instead of Peachtree TV is a threat to that.

I agree that no its not a threat to that market. There will be an audience for shows like the nature of things, but without CRTC regulations, it would derive from an American production firm, using an American host, discussing American ecology, aired on an American station. That's what I believe would transpire without at least some mandatory Canadian content for all Canadian audiences.

It takes away great national pride to say this, but Canada is too small (in market) to support niche media when the competitors from hollywood have too deep of pockets because they serve 7 times the population and have been given greater time to establish an empire.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm picking straws, but I feel like the only (or among the few) that have taken a holistic approach, thereby doing quite the contrary.

 

[MarkGio]

Hey not so much anymore. I subscribe the same problems to America. I think that is even more evident then today.






Food Canada is a very, very bad example. The channels are the same for all intents and puropses. It's stuff like the missing the American Superbowl commercials, and the OP's problem. Here's the thing MarkGio and Brodie, if the op wanted to see every Tigers, Lions and Wings game, he has to get the MLB Game Ticket and other similar packages. That can run up an extra 100 dollars on the cable or satellite bill

I can understand the frustrations. A 100 bucks is no small amount as a regular bill. But yes, I'm sure he's not missing much watching the burger show over the steak one.

 

[MarkGio]

Canada does have it's own culture... go read the lounge sometime. Every third thread is a Canadian shocked that Americans don't have some thing he considers vital to his daily life. That's a fundamental cultural difference. Canada's commitments to social justice, the welfare state and multiculturalism are also cultural and they serve to differentiate the two countries. Is Canadian identity diffuse? Of course... but there isn't a country in the world that has a homogenous monoculture. Even small countries.



The Queen is a Canadian. Canada's sovereignty is vested in her, I think she's earned the accolade.

And what you say is true for many, many countries... I don't doubt that many British people have heard more references to William Henry Harrison in their lives than Andrew Bonar Law, but that doesn't make British culture an endangered species. Canada has chosen to align itself with the US from the outset (when the Liberal Party, favoring free trade with the US over closer ties with the British Empire, became the dominant party within 25 years of Confederation). That doesn't mean Canada hasn't had it's own culture since or that it can't have it's own culture today.

What people watch on TV is only a tiny part of their identities. Do you believe that watching ESPN on your TV (as opposed to your computer, which is what people who really want to do now anyway) is a threat to Canada's sovereignty? I don't think anyone really does. So what's the concern? That Canadian identity isn't what it was when in 1982? 20 years before that, Canadian national identity was expressed through singing The Maple Leaf Forever and waving Union Jacks. It was still Canada then, it's still Canada now and it'll still be Canada tomorrow.

I must have missed this post Brodie, my apologies. I must say that I'm very disappointed in this post.

First, sovereignty is a legal classification that characterizes the state of a authority over a geographical area and its peoples, loosely defined. Its a one-time event. IMO, It really has nothing to do this discussion in your context, and ultimately, sovereignty could only be threatened by war (I think), never mind by ESPN or anything else on television.

The comment I bolded is completely inaccurate. This is by no means me disagreeing with it. It's actually a lie. I mentioned before how there's countless studies on this subject, thereby providing an opportunity to prevent this type of statement, hence why I'm disappointed.

Now it is my fault for perhaps not citing these studies - if that's even possible (and you'll see why in a bit) - but I felt that we, as society perhaps, would understand that television has redesigned the very fabric of human identity. From the very first motion picture, to the now endless amount of global content being displayed across the planet, its really not that difficult to see its influence on HUMAN civilization, let alone Canadian culture or a single person's identity. I'm not sure what else to say. Perhaps try to imagine what it was like without television.

Nevertheless, I will try to depict this vast amount of science for you:

Google Scholar search of Influence of Television (I stopped counting when I reached 50 pages of studies published since the year 2013 alone)
Wiki page labeled Social aspects of television
Wiki page labeled Media Culture

Activism against television, presenting very useful (but bias) research regarding the effects of television, in case Google scholar is too... vast:
http://www.whitedot.org/issue/iss_front.asp
http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/

 

[etr102]

Okay I fully admit that FoodTV is a bad example. I don't personally even watch the channel and I fully admit that may have been grasping at straws. I will retract that.

I won't however retract my ESPN Classic example though as the American ESPN Classic constantly has programming on it that I wish I could watch but am not allowed to.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

if we acknowledge that wanting to watch a different feed of the Food Network is a trivial concern, why is the federal government wasting their time pretending that the amount of Guy Fieri on people's TV is a vital cultural concern?

Because promoting Canadian content when it's a minor variant on another country's export, and when it's clear that Americans would never do so regardless of the quality of our country's export is a vital concern: It's the systematic assimilation of our culture, despite the complimenting and contrasting aspects of said culture.

 

[MarkGio]

Because promoting Canadian content when it's a minor variant on another country's export, and when it's clear that Americans would never do so regardless of the quality of our country's export is a vital concern: It's the systematic assimilation of our culture, despite the complimenting and contrasting aspects of said culture.

I was hoping someone would use this word. If anyone should be familiar with the concept of assimilation, it should be Canadians.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

No its not. I'm in your neck of the woods (assuming), but I'm not so redneck that I don't read and engage in the events around us. I go to the film festival, the jazz festival, pow wows, local bands, and travel to see places. I don't listen to (much) top 40 repeats, but rather listen to talk radio and less popular music perhaps. I try different foods, different beers, low budget films, and shows on small networks.

Congratulations? I partake in some of those activities as well, as do countless others. I don't think me wanting to watch ESPN over Sportsnet is going to kill all those activities.

The college football game on ESPN tonight at 7 pm is Tennessee vs. Missouri. What's on Bell TV on channel 1535? Oh, its Tennessee vs. Missouri.

The CRTC doesn't care whether or not you want to watch your alma mater's football game or the Leafs game. You need to watch it on whomever owns the Canadian rights to it. If you're too cheap to have that channel, then that's your problem.

All Bell has done is hijack the ESPN feed for a specific three-hour window. No different than TSN showing Monday Night Football. Bell TV is not my provider anyway, or is it cheap of me to not invest in multiple cable and satellite packages?

If I want to watch ESPN, NBC Sportsnet, and Fox Sports 24 hours a day, and I am willing to pay for that, I should have that option. But the CRTC does not allow for it. My provider is only allowed to provide those feeds for select, limited amounts of time. It would be a threat to Canadian sovereignty to do otherwise. The tanks would probably be rolling in over the 49th the next day.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Somebody else who 'gets it'. I agree with everything you say here.

Canadian culture differs from region to region, much like American culture differs from region to region. Hillbillies and rednecks may be what American culture is perceived to be down in Texas and Alabama (no offense to any forum members from those states) but American culture in Michigan, Ohio, Connecticut or Delaware is much different.

So if according to the CRTC's logic, the media we as Canadians consume dictates what our culture is, shouldn't every region of our country have the same culture? After all, almost all of our media originates in the same place (Toronto) this day in age. That is simply not the case. Newfies still act like Newfies. Prairie folk still act like prairie folk.

At the end of the day, we are all individuals and every region is different whether we are watching American or Canadian programming.

Hit the nail on the head with this post. Apparently access to ESPN would make us all act like Americans. Except, what does it mean to act "American"? Like you mention, the difference between somebody from Vermont and somebody from Texas is rather striking.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Hit the nail on the head with this post. Apparently access to ESPN would make us all act like Americans. Except, what does it mean to act "American"? Like you mention, the difference between somebody from Vermont and somebody from Texas is rather striking.

That must be why the USA is referred to as a "Melting Pot".

 

[TonyTinglebone]

And what you say is true for many, many countries... I don't doubt that many British people have heard more references to William Henry Harrison in their lives than Andrew Bonar Law, but that doesn't make British culture an endangered species. Canada has chosen to align itself with the US from the outset (when the Liberal Party, favoring free trade with the US over closer ties with the British Empire, became the dominant party within 25 years of Confederation). That doesn't mean Canada hasn't had it's own culture since or that it can't have it's own culture today.

I love the fact that you listed Bonar Law with respect to British culture but he should be (is?) just as important to Canadian culture considering that he is Canadian through revisionist nationality.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I'm not sure what that is, but I highly doubt the CRTC regulation states what you're trying to say. Its probably very performance based legislation (knowing Canada) and allows Canadian businesses to choose how to comply, just so long as they comply.

But I will say this: I just watched a wonderful Nature of Things with David Suzuki. Quality content right there, likely only survived after 40 years because nothing better is on with this crap Canadian content

The current CRTC regime has roots in weird, 60 year old statist national media development programs. They aren't as heavy handed (National Film Board, etc.) as they used to be but the root government directives still kind of exist.

Things really got going when cable became big and they basically banned the popular American channels (MTV, Nickelodian, Food, History, Cartoon, ESPN) from directly beaming all their content and forced them to setup more Canadian versions. Drop a lot of American programming and hire/create some Canadian studios to create Canadian shows to fill up the by-law Canadian content time.

The objective was basically to divert some revenue flows into Canadian studios, so there's jobs for talent. Was this a bad scheme? Hard to say. Canadian consumers probably paid a bit more, for slightly lower quality stuff, but it's not terrible and mostly mimics US content it's replacing. It has also arguable done a decent job of nurturing Canadian talent, and in a somewhat more free-market way (compared to a government owned studio). A lot of Canadian talent who have made it big has gotten their start in Canadian cable TV land as kids (I went to school with Jay Baruchel whose first gigs at the time were on low budget YTV young-teen shows that exist because of these can-con mandates). They wrapped this all up in a big Maple Leaf flag and called it "Canadian culture" to blunt critics but it's mostly about protectionism (debatably understandable and justifiable)

The problem is now that 21st century net streaming is blowing this closely fenced cable land into pieces. Cable packages as they currently exist are obsolete, more people have 10-50 MB/S internet (or more with full fiber optic wiring) that can handle even HD streaming. Internet based media distributors are now heavily competing with old broadcast/cable ones, they are even buying high quality programming from studios (netflix winning emmy), how long do media producers like HBO/AMC/Starz stay exclusively as cable creatures?

Now this new 21st century reality clearly poses a threat to the current Canadian setup where peoples' cable packages support these Canadian studios. The cable companies didn't care before, because they were guaranteed big profits, but now they are beginning to face outside competition from netflix & friends despite their efforts to "vertically integrate" (aka monopolize) all media content in Canada and blackout any American signals. Canadians are figuring out how to easily spoof their IP to US servers, allowing them to get at American services. And the political pressure is piling up on the government by consumers to shatter this model as Canadian consumers see how poor our media reality is getting compared to America (just look at the content selection of US netflix vs Canadian).

Now the Canadian telcos can fight this tooth and claw which seems to be the new near term plan. Bell attempting to track all your internet actions at an ISP level and blast ads at you based on that is the opening salvo here. They have all the tools since they are the ISPs. They can get into a running gunfight with ISP spoofers (like they used to with imported/pirate satellite dishes), and also aggressively throttle any streams from non approved sources for further rearguard actions...But how long will the public stand for this kind of aggression especially as they see the US/EU/Asia blast away at warp speed compared to us? Further this kind of iron fisted action may have long term damage to Canada's overall development as a high tech country.

They will be beaten eventually, their vertical integration money vacuum model will be obliterated by high tech reality. I personally think their dual function as both ISP & media distributor should be severed by anti-trust action asap, it is now a huge conflict of interest, ISPs should be considered utilities. Unfortunately the revenue subsidies that currently go to Canadian studios will dry up, BUT the good news is that thanks to 21st century technology, you can now make quality CGI much cheaper than 20 years ago so the native film/tv industries of smaller countries are now able to compete better with hollywood like they were up until the 80s. What they make with lower budgets doesn't look so cheap & awful anymore so there's room for talented Canadian studios with modest financial backing to make successful product.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

That must be why the USA is referred to as a "Melting Pot".

"Melting Pot", much like it's Canadian counterpart "Cultural Mosaic", is nothing more than a buzzword with a flexible and cloudy meaning used in social studies textbooks to make them appear more academic.

Are you disputing the notion that there are significant cultural differences within the borders of the US? Are we just as likely to find an alligator roast taking place in a parking lot full of RVs with confederate flags in New Hampshire as we are in Georgia?

 

[jayme2017]

Congratulations? I partake in some of those activities as well, as do countless others. I don't think me wanting to watch ESPN over Sportsnet is going to kill all those activities.



All Bell has done is hijack the ESPN feed for a specific three-hour window. No different than TSN showing Monday Night Football. Bell TV is not my provider anyway, or is it cheap of me to not invest in multiple cable and satellite packages?

Bell did not hijack the feeds as they have paid for the rights the other thing to keep in mind is Espn does own part of Tsn.

If I want to watch ESPN, NBC Sportsnet, and Fox Sports 24 hours a day, and I am willing to pay for that, I should have that option. But the CRTC does not allow for it. My provider is only allowed to provide those feeds for select, limited amounts of time. It would be a threat to Canadian sovereignty to do otherwise. The tanks would probably be rolling in over the 49th the next day.

Bell did not hijack the feeds as they have paid for the rights the other thing to keep in mind is Espn does own part of Tsn.

 

[Brodie]

I also think you guys would be stunned the amount of Canadian content that American cable networks air... cheap reality shows and kids programming especially. Even stuff like Little Mosque and Corner Gas airs here. And that's not counting Canadian produced shows like The Borgias.

Point is, it's not zero sum.

 

[PorkChopSandwiches]

I was going post this in the thread about Canadian Cable Channel Unbundling, but didn't want to hijack with a rant that's not completely related.

I live in Windsor which for some ungodly reason is considered to be a part of the Blue Jays/Leafs market, when in fact at least 90% of Windsorites are Tigers fans. The Leafs/Wings are closer to an even split but I'd say it's 60/40 in favor of Wings fans.

I live 9.5km away from Comerica Park (according to Google Maps) but I might as well live around the globe as TSN, RSN, etc focus exclusively on the Blue Jays, or the Yankees if they Jays are off. The CRTC won't let us get Fox SportsNet Detroit because apparently watching Tiger baseball is a threat to Canadian Sovereignty.

Anyway, the only (legal) way to watch Tigers and Wings games here is to get MLB Extra Innings or NHL Centre Ice (or Cogeco's Super Sports pack which includes both). Either that or get an online streaming package, but the video quality is lower than what you get with Cable/Satellite. (trust me, I've tried).

It costs roughly $20-30 for this service because it includes the entire league of out of market games. Why should I have to pay to see the Arizona Diamondbacks and the Miami Marlins just so I can see the Tigers play?!

I doubt very much that the recent CRTC Decision will make the cable providers break apart the out of market sports packages by individual teams, but for God's sake, Give us FSN-Detroit!!!

What's even more insulting is just across the river, FSN-Detroit is just a regular basic cable channel. There's no extra fees to get it. Windsor is a part of the Detroit media market, NOT the Toronto media market. We should get it too!

I would gladly pay $3-5/mo for FSN-Detroit, but simply having access to baseball games being played across the river would apparently be a threat to our country's integrity.

Sorry for this rant, but is anyone else with me on this?

Have you tried getting it Over the Air on an antenna? Will still be HD and will be 2 minutes ahead of cable people

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Bell did not hijack the feeds as they have paid for the rights the other thing to keep in mind is Espn does own part of Tsn.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply Bell was actually using a pirated feed.

 

[etr102]

Have you tried getting it Over the Air on an antenna? Will still be HD and will be 2 minutes ahead of cable people

Not sure if you are just joking or not, but Tigers games haven't been available over the air in quite some time.

As late as 2004, WMYD (Channel 20) used to broadcast about 15-20 games a year (with a broadcast crew of Frank Beckmann and Dan Petry), with Mario Impemba and Rod Allen broadcasting the rest on FSN.

I think in 2006, WJBK (Channel 2) showed a handful of games towards the end of the season (simulcast with FSN Detroit). Thats the last time I recall the Tigers being available over the air.

The days of WDIV (Channel 4) broadcasting 40-50 games a year are long gone. It's a shame too, George Kell (rip) and Al Kaline were an outstanding crew. IIRC, a bunch of games were also available exclusively on Cable on PASS Sports (FSN Detroit's predecessor), but it wasn't a big deal because so many games were available over the air.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

"Melting Pot", much like it's Canadian counterpart "Cultural Mosaic", is nothing more than a buzzword with a flexible and cloudy meaning used in social studies textbooks to make them appear more academic.

Canada is actually a "tossed salad"(no joke).

How are they flexible and cloudy? One implies assimilation, while the other implies co-exitence.

Are you disputing the notion that there are significant cultural differences within the borders of the US? Are we just as likely to find an alligator roast taking place in a parking lot full of RVs with confederate flags in New Hampshire as we are in Georgia?

Doesn't matter man, they're all 'muricans and they all love apple pie and football.