OT: Rant against the CRTC and Sports Programming

[optimus2861]

The Canadiens games being blacked out on CI because of TSN-Habs is the dumbest thing ever since TSN-Habs as far as I know is only offered on Bell, which will probably be the case for at least the near future. Thus the CRTC is not only restricting access, but also determining which cable provider you must have to view that program.

Oh, I remember that. The one & only year I subscribed to CI, was the first year that Bell started the TSN-Habs channel. Blammo, all Habs games vanished from CI. I yelled at the Bell rep on the phone enough one night about it (I was still a Bell subscriber at the time) that I got one CI payment refunded at least.

If our regulators & anti-trust law had any teeth in this country, Bell would have been blasted into about a dozen different pieces by now.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

What's Canadian Culture?

Anything produced by Canadians and generally speaking made for Canadians: Art, sports, entertainment, science, architecture. It's our way of life. Me thinks a lack of cultural awareness is present here.

And don't hand out the claptrap about hockey and timbits.

Way to prove it: Yes, those are the only things produced by and for Canadians.

Or the real question? Why are you so offended at the truth? The productions are second tier. Look at the ratings Canadian made shows are never top five but the Amazing Race comes number one.

Because of media bias: The sheer number of American productions means they will automatically have a greater number of high quality shows.

The truth is they aren't second tier: The country that is 10 times as large as Canada and right next door shuns it out of a misguided sense of superiority and pride.

Toronto can't have an NFL team, etr can't watch ESPN but you want an Hamilton NHL team from a league based in New York City with an American commissioner.

I can watch ESPN, and I do watch ESPN Classic; hell, half of the shows on TSN are American.

Toronto can't have an NFL team because A) The NFL doesn't need them B) They would contribute nothing to the NFL TV deal

Yeah, isn't it weird to put a franchise in Hamilton when the Coyotes in Phoenix are effectively worth nothing while teams in QC and Hamilton would be top 10 in league revenues? We should just ignore that and put teams in Glendale, Arizona and Sunrise, Florida instead.

Burke the Legend gets sees it, why don't you.

Because I am culturally aware and media literate.

Because is stifling competion, smart guy.If you knew anything about capitalism you would know that.

We aren't capitalist, smart guy.

Because many of us don't care about that and what to watch what we pay for. The CRTC is wrong for these restrictions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hooray for apathy!

I would also like to understand why you and some other Hamiltonians want the NFL blocked from coming to Canada but want a Hamilton NHL team. Both leagues are based in NYC. The CRTC restricts don't really affect the CFL otherwise.

Because it has been thoroughly demonstrated that Hamilton's revenue would rival the top teams in the league.

Because, as demonstrated above, the sheer population disparity puts us and our culture at a major disadvantage, especially when there's people like you who simply buy into the American propaganda.

Or why even have a CBC when none of their shows besides HNIC are top 10 in ratings in this country.

Here's their Mission Statement:

CBC will lead the way in providing...meaningful programming that reflects the diversity of Canada," using "people with diverse talents and perspectives

I mean, how terrible is that? That's incredibly undemocratic and really stifles my freedom as a Canadian citizen, doesn't it?

 

[DyerMaker66*]

The truth is that American content has been ubiquitous in Canada since there's been a Canada... American minstrel shows and circuses were far more popular than British music hall acts and local theater performances in the Victorian and Edwardian period. In the radio age, American programs and films were dominant. The idea that Canadian culture has been ruined by the availability of American media is, like a lot of Canadian history, mostly a myth.

What myths exist in Canadian history? Are you sure you aren't confusing Candian history with American?

Did you really just compare the availability of and ease of access to media today with that of 1867?

 

[Burke the Legend]

If our regulators & anti-trust law had any teeth in this country, Bell would have been blasted into about a dozen different pieces by now.

They do have teeth, they are just in bed with the big companies.

it will take serious political gangbusting to break this up.

 

[Melrose Munch]

They do have teeth, they are just in bed with the big companies.

it will take serious political gangbusting to break this up.

Exactly, it's more corporate duopoly then government problem I would say. Bell makes so much money of people like DyerMaker. Bell, which has call centre in India.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Anything produced by Canadians and generally speaking made for Canadians: Art, sports, entertainment, science, architecture. It's our way of life. Me thinks a lack of cultural awareness is present here.


Way to prove it: Yes, those are the only things produced by and for Canadians.

Very broad. I can say going to Yorkdale Mall is Canadian Culture.

Because of media bias: The sheer number of American productions means they will automatically have a greater number of high quality shows.

The truth is they aren't second tier: The country that is 10 times as large as Canada and right next door shuns it out of a misguided sense of superiority and pride.

Excuse. People will watch quality TV. Rick Mercer does good numbers. The shows I mentioned before never did. Why? Because they sucked

I can watch ESPN, and I do watch ESPN Classic; hell, half of the shows on TSN are American.

Toronto can't have an NFL team because A) The NFL doesn't need them B) They would contribute nothing to the NFL TV deal

Yeah, isn't it weird to put a franchise in Hamilton when the Coyotes in Phoenix are effectively worth nothing while teams in QC and Hamilton would be top 10 in league revenues? We should just ignore that and put teams in Glendale, Arizona and Sunrise, Florida instead.

And what makes you think the NHL needs Hamilton, Hamilton contributes nothing to the NHL expansion goal. You're being a blatant CFL homer and hypocrite

Because I am culturally aware and media literate.



We aren't capitalist, smart guy.

This is subjective. I will concede the second point, we're mixed, I should know that because I did political science

Hooray for apathy!


Because it has been thoroughly demonstrated that Hamilton's revenue would rival the top teams in the league.

Because, as demonstrated above, the sheer population disparity puts us and our culture at a major disadvantage, especially when there's people like you who simply buy into the American propaganda.

Apathy =/= reality . And who's we. The majority of Canadians don't watch Canadian shows. Take out the CFL and it's smaller then that.

Here's their Mission Statement:


I mean, how terrible is that? That's incredibly undemocratic and really stifles my freedom as a Canadian citizen, doesn't it?

The CRTC does. The CBC is fine really, most nations have a similar channel.

 

[Zenos]

What myths exist in Canadian history? Are you sure you aren't confusing Candian history with American?

Are you really objecting to the idea that any national history or identity is a socially constructed narrative?

 

[Brodie]

What myths exist in Canadian history? Are you sure you aren't confusing Candian history with American?

Did you really just compare the availability of and ease of access to media today with that of 1867?

It would be far too OT for me to compile a comprehensive list of Canada's major national myths... some are fairly well known (the idea that the War of 1812 was a distinctly Canadian victory, the idea that Canada became "independent" in 1867). Virtually every country has it's myths, Canada is hardly unique on that front. A lot of Canadian historical mythology is very similar to the American variant, unsurprisingly.

I don't pretend that the amount of media today is equivalent to that of the 19th century, no. Only that this issue has been present since time immemorial and yet never once effected Canada's culture, sovereignty or nationalist movement.

 

[MarkGio]

The truth is that American content has been ubiquitous in Canada since there's been a Canada... American minstrel shows and circuses were far more popular than British music hall acts and local theater performances in the Victorian and Edwardian period. In the radio age, American programs and films were dominant. The idea that Canadian culture has been ruined by the availability of American media is, like a lot of Canadian history, mostly a myth.

I disagree with this entirely. More Canadians know who Jesse Jackson is, over say, Tommy Prince. I bet the majority of Canadians could list as many presidents, if not more, than their own prime ministers. This is a result of "Hollywood education". There have been countless studies that show the influence of television and media on people's memory, culture, and identity.

I think you're presenting a myth. In fact, I recall the Queen being one of the "best Canadians", as polled by CBC. She's not even a Canadian, yet she's on our currency like its a gross obsession. Whereas home grown prime ministers, first nation chiefs, etc are barely well known. Canadians, IMO, are so scared of losing their identity with America that they often embrace these British and Keltic traditions and ideals.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I disagree with this entirely. More Canadians know who Jesse Jackson is, over say, Tommy Prince. I bet the majority of Canadians could list as many presidents, if not more, than their own prime ministers. This is a result of "Hollywood education". There have been countless studies that show the influence of television and media on people's memory, culture, and identity.

I think you're presenting a myth. In fact, I recall the Queen being one of the "best Canadians", as polled by CBC. She's not even a Canadian, yet she's on our currency like its a gross obsession. Whereas home grown prime ministers, first nation chiefs, etc are barely well known. Canadians, IMO, are so scared of losing their identity with America that they often embrace these British and Keltic traditions and ideals.

This is true, only because the culture has changed since the mid 1970's


Canada is not the only one this problem. Australia also has the queen on their money too and other British customs still as well. Saying Canada has a lack of culture or no culture is not an insult. Most of the world is subsumed by the US now a days.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Are you really objecting to the idea that any national history or identity is a socially constructed narrative?

I'm objecting to the idea that Canadians do it more than Americans or other nations.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

It would be far too OT for me to compile a comprehensive list of Canada's major national myths... some are fairly well known (the idea that the War of 1812 was a distinctly Canadian victory, the idea that Canada became "independent" in 1867). Virtually every country has it's myths, Canada is hardly unique on that front. A lot of Canadian historical mythology is very similar to the American variant, unsurprisingly.

1812 was a Canadian victory; autonomy was achieved in 1982.

My point was you presented it as as though it is a predominantly Canadian thing to do. As though America and other nations do not have the same methodology.

I don't pretend that the amount of media today is equivalent to that of the 19th century, no. Only that this issue has been present since time immemorial and yet never once effected Canada's culture, sovereignty or nationalist movement.

Have you just been ignoring what Melrose has been saying? The guy believes Canadian culture doesn't exist, and you don't believe it's effected Canada's culture?

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Very broad. I can say going to Yorkdale Mall is Canadian Culture.

I forgot that culture was a very narrow scope.

Excuse. People will watch quality TV. Rick Mercer does good numbers. The shows I mentioned before never did. Why? Because they sucked

Rick Mercer peaked at 1.5 million viewers while last night's episode of The Big Bang theory drew nearly 12 million people: Why is that guy even on the air?!?! The quality of his program must stink to be outdrawn tenfold.

And what makes you think the NHL needs Hamilton, Hamilton contributes nothing to the NHL expansion goal. You're being a blatant CFL homer and hypocrite

Uhh, how about the fact that the NHL themselves said the team would be top 10 in revenue? Nah, that's just being a homer: There's no way the NHL needs more teams that would contribute to revenue sharing.

What part of my post was hypocritical?

Apathy =/= reality . And who's we. The majority of Canadians don't watch Canadian shows. Take out the CFL and it's smaller then that.

1) I never used the word "we".
2) I don't know why you said this; I never suggested otherwise. I said the sheer population disparity puts us and our culture at a major disadvantage.

The CRTC does. The CBC is fine really, most nations have a similar channel.

The CRTC promotes Canadian culture; it doesn't stifle my freedom.

 

[MaskedSonja]

Just my .0002 and obsevation-I don't know what side of the "fence" my observation falls on



"Who are you who do not know your history?" (Wonder how many gamers are here who will know that quote lol)

From a Canada pov, we're coming up to our 150th "birthday" in a few years-compared to Europe/Asia, we're still a child as far as "history"-it's hard to go from being (and I use the term tongue in cheek while possibly being historically inaccurate)a "colony" where people got shipped to hither and yon, to carving out a "history"-compared to European nations that have a millenia or more of history they can call "their own" IMO alot of Canada "history" lies in our trapping and our trading days-that's the closest thing, and even then thats closer to UK colony than "Canada". We've come to embrace things that are "Canadian": Timbits, Buttertarts, CBC, Hockey, , Molson Beer, politeness and Beavers (the four legged kind )-these are our "culture", or at the very least what we've carved out for ourselves as our culture. I can't say if it's because we are so close to the US that we had to "differentiate" ourselves, or whatever the reason from the US.

It takes a very hard look at our own past and digging past what we've been "told" is our "history"-to see how much of it indeed is "myth", how much is "fact", and what lies in between. As a growing culture, however-it obviously was important to the nations psyche to have something to "Call our own"-"what it looks like" seeming to be more important than "what it is"

Again, I'm a little tired, and just threw this out there-hopefully it fits in somewhere as an observation lol

 

[MarkGio]

Just my .0002 and obsevation-I don't know what side of the "fence" my observation falls on



"Who are you who do not know your history?" (Wonder how many gamers are here who will know that quote lol)

From a Canada pov, we're coming up to our 150th "birthday" in a few years-compared to Europe/Asia, we're still a child as far as "history"-it's hard to go from being (and I use the term tongue in cheek while possibly being historically inaccurate)a "colony" where people got shipped to hither and yon, to carving out a "history"-compared to European nations that have a millenia or more of history they can call "their own" IMO alot of Canada "history" lies in our trapping and our trading days-that's the closest thing, and even then thats closer to UK colony than "Canada". We've come to embrace things that are "Canadian": Timbits, Buttertarts, CBC, Hockey, , Molson Beer, politeness and Beavers (the four legged kind )-these are our "culture", or at the very least what we've carved out for ourselves as our culture. I can't say if it's because we are so close to the US that we had to "differentiate" ourselves, or whatever the reason from the US.

It takes a very hard look at our own past and digging past what we've been "told" is our "history"-to see how much of it indeed is "myth", how much is "fact", and what lies in between. As a growing culture, however-it obviously was important to the nations psyche to have something to "Call our own"-"what it looks like" seeming to be more important than "what it is"

Again, I'm a little tired, and just threw this out there-hopefully it fits in somewhere as an observation lol

I disagree with this. There's not 150 years. There's only 150 accepted years.

Culture must be fostered by a medium of collective thought. Language, theatre, literature, sciences, and of course media. How much of the events of the Northern territories get covered in the media? Everything from the literature of the Dogrib to the sledding, festivals, and artwork. Its so rich with culture and history. Meanwhile, the Simpsons and South Park can't even get the proper usage of "eh", yet Canadians eat it right up.

Its not a product of lack of material. Its exposure of material. I wonder how many Canadians are too busy glued to primetime NBC and AMC to pick up a book? And when they do, its got a Oprah sticker on it. How many Canadians are playing a video game that depicts a US marine? How many movies in Canadian theatres that are based on a true story based on a Canadian story? How many Canadian radio stations are playing America top 40?

While your list is comprised of beavers and beer, so many Canadian engineers, scientists, artists, athletes, have influenced the world. Such unique, interesting lives did Canadian chiefs, diplomats, and figure heads live. Instead, here we are complaining that a Detroit baseball team is not yet another American product dumped down our throat. What a shame...

In a lot of ways, I envy Québécois for their union and collusion towards everything that's French Canadian. Such rich music, festivals, carnivals, food, and everything else. Why is that? Is it because francophones are not overly influenced by an English America?

 

[Kyle McMahon]

As an Albertan I have more in common culturally with somebody from Montana than somebody from Newfoundland, and Montanans have more in common with me than somebody from Louisiana. Canada is far too large to be considered one single cultural entity. This myth of a single, defined culture that must be protected by not allowing certain American TV stations onto the airwaves is just plain silly.

And further, if this so called "culture" has to be protected and forced upon the masses, maybe it isn't worth it in the first place. If somebody in Canada would rather immerse themselves in American "culture" as opposed to Canadian "culture", who is anybody to say they shouldn't be allowed to?

 

[MarkGio]

As an Albertan I have more in common culturally with somebody from Montana than somebody from Newfoundland, and Montanans have more in common with me than somebody from Louisiana. Canada is far too large to be considered one single cultural entity. This myth of a single, defined culture that must be protected by not allowing certain American TV stations onto the airwaves is just plain silly.

And further, if this so called "culture" has to be protected and forced upon the masses, maybe it isn't worth it in the first place. If somebody in Canada would rather immerse themselves in American "culture" as opposed to Canadian "culture", who is anybody to say they shouldn't be allowed to?

Why stop at culture? Why are Canadians forced to speak English or French in order to drive and read read the road signs? Why are Canadians forced to obey these "laws"

Better yet, why stop at Canadians? Why do foreigners have to learn English and Canadian history to be citizens? Why aren't they allowed to practice their foreign laws?


Like c'mon.

 

[Shawa666]

1812 was a Canadian victory; autonomy was achieved in 1982.

My point was you presented it as as though it is a predominantly Canadian thing to do. As though America and other nations do not have the same methodology.


Have you just been ignoring what Melrose has been saying? The guy believes Canadian culture doesn't exist, and you don't believe it's effected Canada's culture?

Yet Canada has been a full member of the UN, and it's predecessor, the NS since their inception.

 

[MaskedSonja]

I disagree with this. There's not 150 years. There's only 150 accepted years.

Culture must be fostered by a medium of collective thought. Language, theatre, literature, sciences, and of course media. How much of the events of the Northern territories get covered in the media? Everything from the literature of the Dogrib to the sledding, festivals, and artwork. Its so rich with culture and history. Meanwhile, the Simpsons and South Park can't even get the proper usage of "eh", yet Canadians eat it right up.

Its not a product of lack of material. Its exposure of material. I wonder how many Canadians are too busy glued to primetime NBC and AMC to pick up a book? And when they do, its got a Oprah sticker on it. How many Canadians are playing a video game that depicts a US marine? How many movies in Canadian theatres that are based on a true story based on a Canadian story? How many Canadian radio stations are playing America top 40?

While your list is comprised of beavers and beer, so many Canadian engineers, scientists, artists, athletes, have influenced the world. Such unique, interesting lives did Canadian chiefs, diplomats, and figure heads live. Instead, here we are complaining that a Detroit baseball team is not yet another American product dumped down our throat. What a shame...

In a lot of ways, I envy Québécois for their union and collusion towards everything that's French Canadian. Such rich music, festivals, carnivals, food, and everything else. Why is that? Is it because francophones are not overly influenced by an English America?

Memo to self-in future, sleep on posts before typing

Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with any one opinion-was just throwing some random musing thoughts out there (and I really should have slept on it all now looking at it lol). I agree on the 150 "recognized" years part of it all-the natives were here before us-and we sadly don't even recognize that fact.

What's interesting is that you raise an interesting point about QC-and I'm going to take it in another (not necessarily opposite)direction: How Canada is really a collection of "seperate" cultures; You mentioned QC-though could it be argued that culture comes from a french background?. Look at the East Coast-a HUGE Celtic background culture with music, Kaylee's, and a very Celtic-centric background-that stems from Ireland/Scotland. It's fascinating really.

RE QC-they have their own Television programming that are unique to the province, they don't use the anglo-American because they have their own. I think also a part of it is the simple language-French is not a commonly spoken language in the US (maybe in the North East like Maine and Mass, but not entirely sure)-and they've developed their own communication. They also have things like a unique law system (Napoleonic Code)-they have-dare I say it- a "unique society".

Again, I'm not debating one side or the other-I'm merely musing aloud here about what Culture does or doesn't mean in Canada-some posts just inspired me that's all. I tend to do that in situations with my friends, when there's a debate, I throw musings out that don't apply to one or the other-I often get weird looks, and often the laughing at me usually ends the debate on a friendly note

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm objecting to the idea that Canadians do it more than Americans or other nations.

More then Americans or British, maybe. More then other nations? No and it would not be fair to say that

I disagree with this. There's not 150 years. There's only 150 accepted years.

Culture must be fostered by a medium of collective thought. Language, theatre, literature, sciences, and of course media. How much of the events of the Northern territories get covered in the media? Everything from the literature of the Dogrib to the sledding, festivals, and artwork. Its so rich with culture and history. Meanwhile, the Simpsons and South Park can't even get the proper usage of "eh", yet Canadians eat it right up.

Its not a product of lack of material. Its exposure of material. I wonder how many Canadians are too busy glued to primetime NBC and AMC to pick up a book? And when they do, its got a Oprah sticker on it. How many Canadians are playing a video game that depicts a US marine? How many movies in Canadian theatres that are based on a true story based on a Canadian story? How many Canadian radio stations are playing America top 40?

While your list is comprised of beavers and beer, so many Canadian engineers, scientists, artists, athletes, have influenced the world. Such unique, interesting lives did Canadian chiefs, diplomats, and figure heads live. Instead, here we are complaining that a Detroit baseball team is not yet another American product dumped down our throat. What a shame...

In a lot of ways, I envy Québécois for their union and collusion towards everything that's French Canadian. Such rich music, festivals, carnivals, food, and everything else. Why is that? Is it because francophones are not overly influenced by an English America?

Why stop at culture? Why are Canadians forced to speak English or French in order to drive and read read the road signs? Why are Canadians forced to obey these "laws"

Better yet, why stop at Canadians? Why do foreigners have to learn English and Canadian history to be citizens? Why aren't they allowed to practice their foreign laws?


Like c'mon.

Ok MarkGio, here is the thing. You forget people like me are saying english Canada has no culture because it is multicultural.I support it, because we have the mishmash of these there is no uniform Anglo Canadian culture anymore. And there are a lot of school kids that don't even do Canadian History anymore, so to say just its just immigrants is a mistake.

And as for the OP, I maintain my position that he should be able to his Detroit teams over the air, why? Because he's closer to there then Toronto.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Yet Canada has been a full member of the UN, and it's predecessor, the NS since their inception.

We did not have full control over our own sovereignty until the constitution was brought home in 1982.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I forgot that culture was a very narrow scope.

It is. It has to be specific.

Rick Mercer peaked at 1.5 million viewers while last night's episode of The Big Bang theory drew nearly 12 million people: Why is that guy even on the air?!?! The quality of his program must stink to be outdrawn tenfold.

Well I never Rick sucked right? So good.

Uhh, how about the fact that the NHL themselves said the team would be top 10 in revenue? Nah, that's just being a homer: There's no way the NHL needs more teams that would contribute to revenue sharing.

What part of my post was hypocritical?

How about the NHL has an expansion plan that includes growing the game in the south? Hamilton is not in the southeast US. The NHL has two teams hear, you can't the go train the see the Leafs?


And the hypocrisy, I find from most Hamilton tiger cats fans is this. You say Toronto won't raise NFL revenue, even though you have no proof of that, and say Hamilton will, even though the NHL will still won't come here because of that. The NHL and NFL are both American leagues for all intents and purposes yet you say only can come here based on anecdotes.

1) I never used the word "we".
2) I don't know why you said this; I never suggested otherwise. I said the sheer population disparity puts us and our culture at a major disadvantage.

You said we, and now you say our and us. How can something completely subjective belong to us?

The CRTC promotes Canadian culture; it doesn't stifle my freedom.

Promoting monopolies is not helping culture

Yet Canada has been a full member of the UN, and it's predecessor, the NS since their inception.

Everyoneshould know this

 

[Melrose Munch]

We did not have full control over our own sovereignty until the constitution was brought home in 1982.

We still don't. Queen Elizabeth is still the head of state.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

We still don't. Queen Elizabeth is still the head of state.

That's what the Governor General is for.

 

[tmg]

Anyway, the only (legal) way to watch Tigers and Wings games here is to get MLB Extra Innings or NHL Centre Ice (or Cogeco's Super Sports pack which includes both). Either that or get an online streaming package, but the video quality is lower than what you get with Cable/Satellite. (trust me, I've tried).

It costs roughly $20-30 for this service because it includes the entire league of out of market games. Why should I have to pay to see the Arizona Diamondbacks and the Miami Marlins just so I can see the Tigers play?!

The service is priced largely for supporters of one out-of-market team and the vast majority of their subscribers that is exactly what they use it for. If you watch other teams' games that's a bonus, but it's very faulty reasoning to think that you're paying for all 2430 games. You're paying for the ability to watch any game you wish, and they charged you the same amount they expect any fan of one team would pay to watch all of his/her favorite teams' games. It's just not worth the overhead to have 30 team-specific packages when they can just make it an all-you-can-eat buffet.

It is like a buffet. You pay the same amount at a Chinese buffet whether you don't want the seafood or if you don't like breaded chicken. They didn't price the buffet on the assumption you will consume all of everything - they priced it for the amount of food the typical diner is expected to eat even if they had the opportunity to eat more. Whether you take a small serving of twenty different items or 5 overloaded plates of a single item is up to you. You don't get to negotiate a cut-rate price because there are many items offered in the buffet that you don't plan to eat.