OT: Rant against the CRTC and Sports Programming

[MarkGio]

But Kyle is right. Example. Our best and brightest artist still go to the US. Ryan Gosling for example. And the majority does not like Rugby either, so that's really unfair.

Yes but Ryan Gosling needed grass root productions to get his foot in the door. And if there ever was a major production in Canada that had a role for Ryan Gosling, he might be more inclined to help the Canadian film industry, more so than a non-Canadian.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yes but Ryan Gosling needed grass root productions to get his foot in the door. And if there ever was a major production in Canada that had a role for Ryan Gosling, he might be more inclined to help the Canadian film industry, more so than a non-Canadian.

He blew up because of Disney. Otherwise he would be stuck here like Brent Butt.

At the end of the day if CRTC was so right Harper would not be doing stuff like trying to get Nextel and Verizon in Canada.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Harper's out of it.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

Its about stacking the deck. If there's a mandatory industry, then we'll be guaranteed to be able to compete with hollywood for the Canadian audience. With enough content, the trial and error to finding success is more likely. Once a production company gets a little bit of success, they can grow, thereby encouraging Canadian arts. Writers, actors, crew members, designers, etc. would have to move to Cali or India to find work otherwise if Canada had to compete with these markets without assistance.

Likewise with the music industry. If companies have to find Canadian artists to put on the air, it creates a market. Companies don't want to belly-up so they have to find enjoyable arts. Some even goes as fsr to create them.

This allows us to be exposed to less "constitutional" ideas that's not Canadian, historical events and whatever. Plus there's the economics of exporting content rather than importing it. So a few baseball and NFL fans have to suffer for the good of the CFL and Rugby? Good thing policy takes into account the needs of the majority.

How so? Ratings for the CFL are high, the league isn't televised because TSN needs Canadian content, it's televised because it draws big ratings. It's pretty rare that a CFL game is on at the same time as the NFL anyway. I have no idea what rugby has to do with anything, there is no Canadian rugby league, so that content is all imported from Australia typically.

And saying the policy takes into account the needs of the majority, no it doesn't. It wouldn't need to exist if that were the case. If a majority of people would rather watch poker on Sportsnet than a college football game on ESPN2 or Fox Sports, those stations would be allowed into Canada. Instead the policy allows the networks to get away with televising garbage that costs them nearly nothing to air (poker, darts, dog shows) instead of bucking up to provide actual sporting content.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I wonder what the NHL has planned long term? Maybe one more big Canadian network deal whose ending will coincide with the NBC deal?

So much content is already going through the web, by 2021 the media landscape could be quite different. These old cable structures could be completely out of date that by that time we might be looking at more direct distribution models for all media, not just sports.

I still think some trust busting is needed in cable land here in North America. The confluence of both ISP and media distributor into massive conglomerates in both USA and Canada is going to hold back tech development if they are allowed to circle the wagons and protect their distribution setups. They have incentive to hold up internet investment like backbone/fibre optic lines since if consumers got these it would allow them to bypass cable/satellite TV distribution setups more easily. Big internet companies are recognizing this which is why Google is now building up fiber optic networks, but in a lot of jurisdictions the current models are entrenched with legal protections making it difficult for someone to swoop in.

I think there's some political will to make this happen. In Canada Harper fired a shot over their bows with that Verizon courting, which amounted to nothing in the end but got them riled up. There is certainly a lot of political reward to going after these conglomerates, the majority of Canadians hate them.

 

[MarkGio]

How so? Ratings for the CFL are high, the league isn't televised because TSN needs Canadian content, it's televised because it draws big ratings. It's pretty rare that a CFL game is on at the same time as the NFL anyway. I have no idea what rugby has to do with anything, there is no Canadian rugby league, so that content is all imported from Australia typically.

And saying the policy takes into account the needs of the majority, no it doesn't. It wouldn't need to exist if that were the case. If a majority of people would rather watch poker on Sportsnet than a college football game on ESPN2 or Fox Sports, those stations would be allowed into Canada. Instead the policy allows the networks to get away with televising garbage that costs them nearly nothing to air (poker, darts, dog shows) instead of bucking up to provide actual sporting content.

It goes beyond sports. Theater, music, films, broadcasting.. the works. A majority of sports fans is not the majority of Canadians.

 

[TonyTinglebone]

This is where I find national blackout rules confusing. I don't have centre ice so I'm only going based on second hand information from discussion from those that do.... but I don't recall Canadiens games ever getting blacked out until the TSN Habs channel started. But shouldn't RDS's coverage be reason to black out all Habs games? That's a national broadcast... or is it different because it's French? Also, I live in Nova Scotia and get WGN, and get Blackhawks games... shouldn't those be blacked out since that's part of a regional contact?

The Canadiens games being blacked out on CI because of TSN-Habs is the dumbest thing ever since TSN-Habs as far as I know is only offered on Bell, which will probably be the case for at least the near future. Thus the CRTC is not only restricting access, but also determining which cable provider you must have to view that program.

RDS only owns the rights to broadcast the Habs in French. As this would be considered different than the English programming it would not result in CI being blacked out.

The blacking out of Habs games on CI in the maritimes led to my issues with the CRTC. When you aren't considered part of the region that gets the Habs game on HNIC, but since it is considered a national broadcast it is blacked out on CI anyways.

 

[Melrose Munch]

It goes beyond sports. Theater, music, films, broadcasting.. the works. A majority of sports fans is not the majority of Canadians.

You are very right, infact I bet 2/3 canadian don't care about sports, but that's does not make him wrong. We don't need to protect substandard stuff.

 

[MarkGio]

You are very right, infact I bet 2/3 canadian don't care about sports, but that's does not make him wrong. We don't need to protect substandard stuff.

The CRTC regulation is not about "substandard" stuff. Its about an economy. Its about the viability of an industry that serves 35 million while being adjacent to a larger, more dominant industry that serves 250 million or more globally. These are Canadian jobs, Canadian exports, Canadian education and Canadian culture that's being kept in mind. Just like some believe a museum is important to protecting cultural artifacts, there will be those who believe some ancient wooden spoon is not worth giving up tax dollars for. We will have to respectfully agree to disagree. I'm not scared using the word socialism, as if its some witch craft, because I care for society.

Have the last word, but I know we won't see eye to eye.

 

[GalacticaActual]

You guys are ridiculous. He shouldn't cheer for Canadian teams just because he's Canadian. Windsor is closer to Detroit, Cleveland and Chicago then Toronto

Who said he has to cheer for a Canadian team? The point is he lives on Canadian soil, so he has no reason to complain. Should we encourage a Californian who is complaining because he can't watch the Winnipeg Jets for free? Someone who lives in California should expect to pay extra to watch out-of-market games from Manitoba.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The CRTC regulation is not about "substandard" stuff. Its about an economy. Its about the viability of an industry that serves 35 million while being adjacent to a larger, more dominant industry that serves 250 million or more globally. These are Canadian jobs, Canadian exports, Canadian education and Canadian culture that's being kept in mind. Just like some believe a museum is important to protecting cultural artifacts, there will be those who believe some ancient wooden spoon is not worth giving up tax dollars for. We will have to respectfully agree to disagree. I'm not scared using the word socialism, as if its some witch craft, because I care for society.

Have the last word, but I know we won't see eye to eye.

Alright, I agree to disagree as well.

 

[Burke the Legend]

The CRTC regulation is not about "substandard" stuff. Its about an economy. Its about the viability of an industry that serves 35 million while being adjacent to a larger, more dominant industry that serves 250 million or more globally. These are Canadian jobs, Canadian exports, Canadian education and Canadian culture that's being kept in mind. Just like some believe a museum is important to protecting cultural artifacts, there will be those who believe some ancient wooden spoon is not worth giving up tax dollars for. We will have to respectfully agree to disagree. I'm not scared using the word socialism, as if its some witch craft, because I care for society.

Have the last word, but I know we won't see eye to eye.

It's all going to get swept away. This is all a 20th century distribution model. The 21st century will be a lot more direct from producer to consumer. Less theatres, less retail DVD/PPV, less cable TV even. It's more and more going direct to consumer via cable for now and and soon fiber optic internet. This kind of content produced for direct distribution is already winning Emmys, not going away.

The ONLY way the CRTC's Canadian garden can avoid getting swept away is if they let Rogers/Bell/Videotron throttle the crap out of outside the establishment stream content, which would be quite a radical anti-consumer measure, and possibly stifle Canada's overall development as a high tech nation, all for the sake of a dubious home grown media development philosophy that not everyone agrees with the merits of.

 

[etr102]

MOD

My house is 9.5km away from Comerica Park and Joe Louis Arena, but 367km away from Rogers Centre and the Air Canada Centre. Just like most other sports fans, I follow the local team.

Why would I follow a team that's a 3.5hr drive away when I have one that's 10 minutes away? Windsor Sports media is dominated by Detroit sports coverage. Detroit sports is whats shoved down our throat, so it's what we all follow here. Get a clue, buddy.

I've been following the Wings and Tigers since I was old enough to follow sports (the mid 80s).

 

[cutchemist42]

Yes, they are. I cannot watch any college football game that airs on Fox Sports 1 if TSN or Sportnet is not airing it as well, since the CRTC will not allow my cable provider to carry it.

I've been hating this all season, especially since the amount of space on Speed Canada now goes to waste.

 

[etr102]

Who said he has to cheer for a Canadian team? The point is he lives on Canadian soil, so he has no reason to complain. Should we encourage a Californian who is complaining because he can't watch the Winnipeg Jets for free? Someone who lives in California should expect to pay extra to watch out-of-market games from Manitoba.

Again, you are completely missing the point.

Winnipeg, MB is roughly 2900km away from the closest part of California (the northeast corner of the state).

Downtown Windsor, ON is less than 5km from Downtown Detroit, MI.

Completely different circumstances.

 

[thom]

Ctrc is nothing more than a society and government agenda to force Canadians to listen and watch crap they and their families have no interest in.You think someone from interior of Bc has more love for AN NFL club in Toronto or would they go to Seattle to watch Sea Hawks.Forcing me to pay cbc to watc Little mosque on prarie is criminal and undemocratic

 

[superdeluxe]

I've never really bought this. If a show is decent and worth watching, nobody gives a damn where it was produced. .

Pretty much, I know many american shows were filmed in Vancouver (X-files, Smallville, Dark Angel etc).

Watch a ton of BBC America programming (Torchwood, Ripper St, Orphan Black).

Like you say, I don't care where it comes from, if its compelling, its compelling.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Ctrc is nothing more than a society and government agenda to force Canadians to listen and watch crap they and their families have no interest in.You think someone from interior of Bc has more love for AN NFL club in Toronto or would they go to Seattle to watch Sea Hawks.Forcing me to pay cbc to watc Little mosque on prarie is criminal and undemocratic

Yeah, supporting Canadian productions is criminal. We should just ignore everything our country produces, including hockey players.

 

[saintflannel]

This is irrelevant... even a culturally protectionist Irish state obsessed who spends billions annually trying to keep the myth of Irish as a living language alive doesn't have any concern over what might happen if their children dare be exposed to the horrors of British commercial television. British TV has existed in Ireland since the outset (along with British newspapers, magazines, retail outlets, etc.) and yet I'd say Irish culture is doing ok.

Irish culture >>>>>>>> British culture. Also the history of the English oppressing the Irish. I don't think Ireland is generally interested in British culture. On the other hand, Canadians are very much (in general) interested in American culture. You're example is a non-equivalent.

 

[Brodie]

Irish culture >>>>>>>> British culture. Also the history of the English oppressing the Irish. I don't think Ireland is generally interested in British culture. On the other hand, Canadians are very much (in general) interested in American culture. You're example is a non-equivalent.

have you been to Ireland by chance? I was just there last month. Literally every single cable/satellite channel in the country is shared with the UK, nearly every home gets BBC One and Two, UTV (Northern Ireland's ITV equivalent) and Channel Four and the Irish broadcast networks air a significant amount of imported British TV (often, much like in Canada, airing against shows on UK networks). You only need to check an Irish TV guide to verify this stuff. You may also want to check out the frequency of these being the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Number_One (or at least this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_Singles_Chart_Christmas_number_twos). Then check out how many of these are just localized editions of UK papers.

I think you'll find that it's about as close an equivalent as there is, with maybe Australia and New Zealand being in the same realm. And the English certainly never forced the Irish to watch Coronation Street or listen to Little Mix.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Yeah, supporting Canadian productions is criminal. We should just ignore everything our country produces, including hockey players.

What's Canadian Culture?


And don't hand out the claptrap about hockey and timbits.

Or the real question? Why are you so offended at the truth? The productions are second tier. Look at the ratings Canadian made shows are never top five but the Amazing Race comes number one. Toronto can't have an NFL team, etr can't watch ESPN but you want an Hamilton NHL team from a league based in New York City with an American commissioner.

Burke the Legend gets sees it, why don't you.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Who said he has to cheer for a Canadian team? The point is he lives on Canadian soil, so he has no reason to complain. Should we encourage a Californian who is complaining because he can't watch the Winnipeg Jets for free? Someone who lives in California should expect to pay extra to watch out-of-market games from Manitoba.

Because is stifling competion. If you knew anything about capitalism you would know that.

 

[saintflannel]

have you been to Ireland by chance? I was just there last month. Literally every single cable/satellite channel in the country is shared with the UK, nearly every home gets BBC One and Two, UTV (Northern Ireland's ITV equivalent) and Channel Four and the Irish broadcast networks air a significant amount of imported British TV (often, much like in Canada, airing against shows on UK networks). You only need to check an Irish TV guide to verify this stuff. You may also want to check out the frequency of these being the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_Number_One (or at least this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_Singles_Chart_Christmas_number_twos). Then check out how many of these are just localized editions of UK papers.

I think you'll find that it's about as close an equivalent as there is, with maybe Australia and New Zealand being in the same realm. And the English certainly never forced the Irish to watch Coronation Street or listen to Little Mix.

I never suggested that people just watch RTE all day and night. Of course a lot of British and American content is broadcast in Ireland. What I'm saying is that it hasn't (and probably won't) put a dent in Irish culture whereas Canada has been totally Americanize in the last few decades. I don't really care myself but it seems pretty undeniable.

 

[Brodie]

I never suggested that people just watch RTE all day and night. Of course a lot of British and American content is broadcast in Ireland. What I'm saying is that it hasn't (and probably won't) put a dent in Irish culture whereas Canada has been totally Americanize in the last few decades. I don't really care myself but it seems pretty undeniable.

The truth is that American content has been ubiquitous in Canada since there's been a Canada... American minstrel shows and circuses were far more popular than British music hall acts and local theater performances in the Victorian and Edwardian period. In the radio age, American programs and films were dominant. The idea that Canadian culture has been ruined by the availability of American media is, like a lot of Canadian history, mostly a myth.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The truth is that American content has been ubiquitous in Canada since there's been a Canada... American minstrel shows and circuses were far more popular than British music hall acts and local theater performances in the Victorian and Edwardian period. In the radio age, American programs and films were dominant. The idea that Canadian culture has been ruined by the availability of American media is, like a lot of Canadian history, mostly a myth.

Very few people will admit this. Brodie you have guts.