OT: Rant against the CRTC and Sports Programming

[etr102]

I was going post this in the thread about Canadian Cable Channel Unbundling, but didn't want to hijack with a rant that's not completely related.

I live in Windsor which for some ungodly reason is considered to be a part of the Blue Jays/Leafs market, when in fact at least 90% of Windsorites are Tigers fans. The Leafs/Wings are closer to an even split but I'd say it's 60/40 in favor of Wings fans.

I live 9.5km away from Comerica Park (according to Google Maps) but I might as well live around the globe as TSN, RSN, etc focus exclusively on the Blue Jays, or the Yankees if they Jays are off. The CRTC won't let us get Fox SportsNet Detroit because apparently watching Tiger baseball is a threat to Canadian Sovereignty.

Anyway, the only (legal) way to watch Tigers and Wings games here is to get MLB Extra Innings or NHL Centre Ice (or Cogeco's Super Sports pack which includes both). Either that or get an online streaming package, but the video quality is lower than what you get with Cable/Satellite. (trust me, I've tried).

It costs roughly $20-30 for this service because it includes the entire league of out of market games. Why should I have to pay to see the Arizona Diamondbacks and the Miami Marlins just so I can see the Tigers play?!

I doubt very much that the recent CRTC Decision will make the cable providers break apart the out of market sports packages by individual teams, but for God's sake, Give us FSN-Detroit!!!

What's even more insulting is just across the river, FSN-Detroit is just a regular basic cable channel. There's no extra fees to get it. Windsor is a part of the Detroit media market, NOT the Toronto media market. We should get it too!

I would gladly pay $3-5/mo for FSN-Detroit, but simply having access to baseball games being played across the river would apparently be a threat to our country's integrity.

Sorry for this rant, but is anyone else with me on this?

Click to read more...

 

[Killion]

Sorry for this rant, but is anyone else with me on this?

Yes, Im with you on that. The CRTC really needs to move into the 21st Century. An anachronism of the past.

 

[Hoser]

I sympathize a little bit but I think directing your anger at the CRTC in particular is a little silly. If you were a Blue Jays fan in Buffalo you can't get Rogers Sportsnet and watch Blue Jays games for the same reason you can't get FSN in Windsor and watch Tigers games. Why aren't you outraged at the FCC?

 

[Yukon Joe]

Direct your anger at the NHL. It's the NHL that gives away national / regional rights, and as such classifies you in the Maple Leafs zone.

 

[DyerMaker66*]

Direct your anger at the NHL. It's the NHL that gives away national / regional rights, and as such classifies you in the Maple Leafs zone.

I hate that crap: I can watch any baseball game on my TV whether the Jays are playing or not, but if I want to watch the Habs or Sens play while a Leafs game is on, or I want to watch a Canucks, Oilers or Flames game on one of the other Sportsnets I'm out of luck. Why? Do you really want to restrict fan access to your product?

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

I hate that crap: I can watch any baseball game on my TV whether the Jays are playing or not, but if I want to watch the Habs or Sens play while a Leafs game is on, or I want to watch a Canucks, Oilers or Flames game on one of the other Sportsnets I'm out of luck. Why? Do you really want to restrict fan access to your product?

You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking "Do the Leafs (in this scenario) really want to restrict fan access to a competing product?"

The answer is 'duh'. Why would Leafs brass want you not watching a Leafs game if you live in Leafs territory?

 

[Jack Bauer]

Direct your anger at the NHL. It's the NHL that gives away national / regional rights, and as such classifies you in the Maple Leafs zone.

I'm sure the NHL would rather he be able to watch both.

They're not the ones restricting him from getting FSN in Ontario. The CRTC/FCC are who he should be blaming but at the same time us Canadians would be *****ing a lot louder if the CRTC wasn't trying to protect our own culture by limiting how much American TV we have access too.

Would TSN ever have grown to be as large as it is if ESPN was always allowed to broadcast in Canada?

It's not a simple black and white argument. I live in the Maritimes and am in the Ottawa Senators region even though the breakdown is likely 98% original 6 fans. We are in a Blue Jays region even though it's likely 50% Red Sox and Yankee fans and 50% Blue Jays.

There is no perfect system, but GCL or NHLCI are how the NHL gives you what you want.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I hate that crap: I can watch any baseball game on my TV whether the Jays are playing or not, but if I want to watch the Habs or Sens play while a Leafs game is on, or I want to watch a Canucks, Oilers or Flames game on one of the other Sportsnets I'm out of luck. Why? Do you really want to restrict fan access to your product?

It's a different setup that encourages people to purchase the out of market games on NHLCI.

You might be able to watch whatever baseball games might be on your TV but you can't make sure you get all 162 Red Sox or Yankee games in Canada without MLB Extra Innings.

Just like you can watch 41 Leaf games on TSN/CBC but if you want the other 41 and live outside the Region you're going to need NHL Center Ice and not just Sportsnet Ontario.

 

[etr102]

I sympathize a little bit but I think directing your anger at the CRTC in particular is a little silly. If you were a Blue Jays fan in Buffalo you can't get Rogers Sportsnet and watch Blue Jays games for the same reason you can't get FSN in Windsor and watch Tigers games. Why aren't you outraged at the FCC?

Completely different scenario.

From a geography standpoint, Buffalo is much further from Toronto than Windsor is to Detroit. Buffalo what, a good 45-60 minute drive down the QEW in the unlikely event that traffic conditions are actually good. Buffalo is also a large enough city/metropolitan area to have it's own independent media market, whereas Windsor is just an extension of the Detroit media market.

Thousands of Windsorites attend every Tigers and Red Wings game. Transit Windsor has bus service directly to Comerica Park and Joe Louis Arena. On game day, there are literally dozens of bus loads of fans from Windsor jammed shoulder to shoulder.

Windsor is functionally a suburb of Detroit. Thousands of us work in Michigan. Hundreds of us cross the border every day to to go shopping, or just for a night out for dinner in Mexican town.

I doubt it's the FCC that prevents Buffalo from getting Rogers Sportnet or TSN. It's more likely lack of interest. Buffalo is a big enough media market that I can't imagine there's too many people saying "Gee, I wish I had some more Canadian channels to watch."

 

[Jack Bauer]

Completely different scenario.

From a geography standpoint, Buffalo is much further from Toronto than Windsor is to Detroit. Buffalo what, a good 45-60 minute drive down the QEW in the unlikely event that traffic conditions are actually good. Buffalo is also a large enough city/metropolitan area to have it's own independent media market, whereas Windsor is just an extension of the Detroit media market.

Thousands of Windsorites attend every Tigers and Red Wings game. Transit Windsor has bus service directly to Comerica Park and Joe Louis Arena. On game day, there are literally dozens of bus loads of fans from Windsor jammed shoulder to shoulder.

Windsor is functionally a suburb of Detroit. Thousands of us work in Michigan. Hundreds of us cross the border every day to to go shopping, or just for a night out for dinner in Mexican town.

I doubt it's the FCC that prevents Buffalo from getting Rogers Sportnet or TSN. It's more likely lack of interest. Buffalo is a big enough media market that I can't imagine there's too many people saying "Gee, I wish I had some more Canadian channels to watch."

It's not lack of interest. American companies can't just offer Canadian channels and vice versa.

The little thing called the border is what puts you in the TV viewing area you're in, not the NHL or your local cable companies. Each country has different rules in place to essentially protect their own culture.

You can travel across the border to do whatever you want. You can even move over there permanantly and have different TV options.

But as long as you're living on 1 side you're not getting much access to the others TV channels.

 

[Hoser]

Completely different scenario.

I think it's similar. Not exactly the same, true, but that doesn't mean completely different.

I doubt it's the FCC that prevents Buffalo from getting Rogers Sportnet or TSN. It's more likely lack of interest. Buffalo is a big enough media market that I can't imagine there's too many people saying "Gee, I wish I had some more Canadian channels to watch."

And Fox Sports Detroit hasn't applied to be carried in Canada either, so... *shrug*

 

[skeena1]

Here's the confusing part off all this...for several years Sportsnet Pacific carried 50 or so Mariners games a year. How can they do this? Even now Sportsnet carries over 300 non-Jay games.

 

[MartysBetterThanYou]

Could the Tigers and/or Red Wings sign a deal like the Sabres did to be televised in the Windsor-Sarnia area? That seems like the best recourse.

 

[skeena1]

Here's the confusing part off all this...for several years Sportsnet Pacific carried 50 or so Mariners games a year. How can they do this? Even now Sportsnet carries over 300 non-Jay games.

 

[etr102]

And Fox Sports Detroit hasn't applied to be carried in Canada either, so... *shrug*

Why would FSN Detroit waste their time and apply to be carried in Canada when there are well known policies in place by the CRTC preventing it from happening?

I don't know the exact wording, but the policy prevents any American specialty channel from being picked up in Canada where there is a Canadian channel that provides similar content. It's the same reason we don't get ESPN in Canada. Granted TSN carries some programming from ESPN and uses some of the same branding for shows such as SportsCentre, but at the end of day, the it's a completely different channel.

This is a broad policy and they aren't going to just make an exception for the Windsor market.

 

[cutchemist42]

I do think a few markets should just be considered the same metro area with no restrictions, Windsor/Detroit being one of them.

 

[etr102]

Here's the confusing part off all this...for several years Sportsnet Pacific carried 50 or so Mariners games a year. How can they do this? Even now Sportsnet carries over 300 non-Jay games.

Well this isn't really a CRTC issue. This is more of an MLB regional market issue. Sportsnet Pacific knows that most people in Vancouver would rather watch the Mariners than the Blue Jays and MLB must have made an amendment to make it happen.

If I'm in Vancouver, I'd be saying "50 games? Big deal, I want all 162."

If somehow Rogers made a Sportsnet Southern Ontario (for the region South of London), I'm sure it would carry Tigers games. However, there just isn't the population base to make such a channel practical. So allowing carriers such as Cogeco to carry a channel that already exists (FSN Detroit) would make more sense.

 

[Rocko604]

Here's the confusing part off all this...for several years Sportsnet Pacific carried 50 or so Mariners games a year. How can they do this? Even now Sportsnet carries over 300 non-Jay games.

Because the obtained the rights from FSN, Roots etc to do it. No difference than them showing Champions League matches.

IIRC, this was before Sportsnet obtained the national rights for the Blue Jays, though. Now when they're not showing Jays games SN Pacific will show a mix of the AL West games. I lost count of how many times I've seen the Angels or A's on TV.

On a different note, but in the spirit of what you're saying etr102... while I'm thankful to have the B1G Network, why does that come with my HD package and yet I have no way to purchase the Pac-12 Network? Shenanigans.

 

[Melrose Munch]

You're asking the wrong question. You should be asking "Do the Leafs (in this scenario) really want to restrict fan access to a competing product?"

The answer is 'duh'. Why would Leafs brass want you not watching a Leafs game if you live in Leafs territory?

Well Ottawa and Montreal made a deal, why can't Ottawa and Toronto make one?

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm sure the NHL would rather he be able to watch both.

They're not the ones restricting him from getting FSN in Ontario. The CRTC/FCC are who he should be blaming but at the same time us Canadians would be *****ing a lot louder if the CRTC wasn't trying to protect our own culture by limiting how much American TV we have access too.

Would TSN ever have grown to be as large as it is if ESPN was always allowed to broadcast in Canada?

It's not a simple black and white argument. I live in the Maritimes and am in the Ottawa Senators region even though the breakdown is likely 98% original 6 fans. We are in a Blue Jays region even though it's likely 50% Red Sox and Yankee fans and 50% Blue Jays.

There is no perfect system, but GCL or NHLCI are how the NHL gives you what you want.

But how many people born after 1985 care about that? People want to watch TV but hate seeing the Leafs. This country claims to be a free market but OP can't watch his team except for online illegally? The CRTC should be scrapped, if some people lose jobs so be it.

 

[mouser]

On a different note, but in the spirit of what you're saying etr102... while I'm thankful to have the B1G Network, why does that come with my HD package and yet I have no way to purchase the Pac-12 Network? Shenanigans.

Separate issue. I live in PAC12 country and can't get the Network on my carrier either, DirecTV.

Amusingly just about zero sports bars in the country have the PAC12 Network since they all run DirecTV as their provider for the NFL package.

 

[MadLuke]

This country claims to be a free market but OP

I do not think that Canada never claim to be a free market, milk, air and bus travel, apples (seriously, price of apple is controlled here in quebec I do not know for the rest of canada), everything cultural, electricity, health care, police, firefighting, schooling, banking, almost everything is under some sort of heavy control (and now the goverment want to put law about cellphone datapackage and television cable).

The US too.

Singapour and Hong-Kong are still pretty free market, but in the occidental world that do not exist much anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

Well Ottawa and Montreal made a deal, why can't Ottawa and Toronto make one?

I can't take credit for this - NyQuil posted this in the Sens forum many moons ago...

In the early days of our team, we claimed, under the terms of our Expansion Agreement with the NHL, exclusive mid-week broadcasting rights in our Franchise Territory (the boundaries of the Corporation of the City of Ottawa plus 50 miles).

Montréal and Toronto were obviously affected by this—they had been broadcasting their games into Ottawa for many years.

We did a deal with Ron Corey, then President of the Canadiens, to permit reciprocal rights—Montréal could broadcast their mid-week games into Ottawa at no cost but Ottawa could broadcast Sens games into Montréal, again at no cost. This obviously favored the 1992/93 eventual Stanley Cup Champion Canadiens who, you would have to say, would have had a lot more fans in Ottawa than the Sens would have had in Montréal, n’est-ce pas? Whatever.

Well, do you think the Leafs would do the same deal? No way. They not only refused a deal on reciprocal rights, their broadcaster (not to mention any names but I’ll give you a hint—it’s a global enterprise), backed by the Leafs said they would ignore the Franchise Agreement and continue to broadcast their games into Ottawa, so there. One might say this was a bully tactic. Their broadcaster used the excuse that they couldn’t break their over-the-air broadcast signal, so it was just a little technical glitch but overwhelming in its complexity. Sure.

With the help of the NHL, this tactic amounted to zip—they did have to break their transmission so instead of Leaf fans in Ottawa watching their team, they got The Mating Habits of African Beetles and other such interesting documentaries throughout the Season. You can imagine the furor that caused amongst Ottawa-based Leaf fans.

Of course, we got blamed for it—Toronto-dominated media interests never seemed to be able to point out that Montréal games were still on the air and that hockey fans in general were benefiting by the approach taken by those two clubs…

To summarize, 'cuz the Leafs don't wanna.

 

[Riptide]

I'm closer to Edmonton and Calgary than I am Vancouver... yet get lumped in with BC for everything.

 

[Pilky01]

Borders matter.

Frankly I don't know why anyone in Windsor would be anything but a Red Wings fan. The arena is literally on display for the people of Windsor.

In a way, the Red Wings and Sabres are just Canadian franchises with super tight security.