OT NFL grievance UPD financial settlement reached

[BKIslandersFan]

Beg to differ. Attendance is down throught the league and polls everywhere will tell you fans have turned on the NFL over this issue. Those fans not showing up have already cost teams beer, hot dog, parking, and souvenir revenues. Not to mention the walk up ticket sales many teams get each week. That's a fact.

Nobody has to know exactly how much worse it would be for them to know Kap is more of a detriment than a positive to their team should they sign him. Now that doesn't mean some owner might not feel he is worth it. But it does clearly show cause why many owners would want nothing to do with him.

That is all because of Kaepernick? Bullshit.

Attendance has been continuing to decrease even before Kaepernick protest. And product quality has been on decline too. Has nothing to do with Kaepernick.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

That is all because of Kaepernick? Bull****.

Attendance has been continuing to decrease even before Kaepernick protest. And product quality has been on decline too. Has nothing to do with Kaepernick.

Well, if you want to turn a blind eye to the fact that things really took a turn south when he started all this OK, be my guest.

 

[powerstuck]

Whether or not there was/is collusion is a separate point from the one I made. If you’re going to cause me grief and lose me revenue I don’t have to hire you regardless of how good/qualified you are. There doesn’t need to be collusion for a person to not be hired.

I wonder what is your take on rights to union ?
I mean there is no company that didn't lose revenue and didn't get grief by having its employees join a union...ask for higher salaries then go on strike and impose bad publicity on the owners.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

I wonder what is your take on rights to union ?
I mean there is no company that didn't lose revenue and didn't get grief by having its employees join a union...ask for higher salaries then go on strike and impose bad publicity on the owners.

The decision to sign or not sign a UFA is not a union issue. Teams can sign (or not) anyone they want based on their own criteria. The union has no say in who they do or don't sign.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Well, if you want to turn a blind eye to the fact that things really took a turn south when he started all this OK, be my guest.

NFL still print money....

 

[Bluesman]

Well, if you want to turn a blind eye to the fact that things really took a turn south when he started all this OK, be my guest.

Aye Comrade! Continue to fight the good fight and highlight the role of Emmanual Golds...err I mean Colin Kaepernick to the ills that befall the noble National Football League. It is clearly not a factor that...

More people are eliminating cable/satellite for cheaper, more efficient streaming services.

The NFL charges twice as much for streaming (live) games as other major sports, while charging extra for difference devices, and locking themselves into a single carrier. Oh yea, they charge for an additional service to watch completed games. TLDR: For 1/2 to 1/3 of the price I can watch every MLB game, live or completed, on any device that contains the MLB At-Bat app.

The NFL undermines its marquee players (Brady, Elliot, Peterson, etc.) and teams (Cowboys, Patriots, Saints under bountygate) while sitting on their hands and defending nobodies (Josh Brown).

During the 2000's they altered the rules to encourage more offense through the air, resulting in the blowback of defenses focusing on attacking the quarterback and putting even more importance on that position...

...Which is problematic as the golden era of NFL QB's is coming to an end, as Brees, Brady, Manning(s), Favre, Rodgers, etc. are nearing the end (or have reached it) with no clear heirs in sight.

The NFL has oversaturated itself by spreading its product (Thursday night, London, etc.) thin while an increasingly controversy/click bait obsessed sports media amplifies every NFL mistake.

The NFL is like a box of chocolates...you don't know if you're going to get a gourmet goody or the Thursday Night Ravens/Dolphins game a few weeks ago.

The foot dragging and deflection around head injuries has lowered the participation/interest in youth football, thus decreasing its importance as the national sport of choice.

Roger Goodell.

The officiating continually makes major errors in the most important of moments.

The rules committee continues to drop the ball (pun intended) over the most basic of decisions...such as requiring a receiver to have two hands on the ball, turn, and run through the stadium to the nearest liquor establishment where they have at least 2 drinks of whomever is the primary alcohol sponsor of the NFL at that time.

The primacy of NFL fantasy football has slowly receded amongst the rise of Daily Fantasy Leagues that favor sports that don't contain weaklings that can only play once a week.

The increase in commercial breaks creates for even more of a disjointed user experience, as evidenced by the fact that we now can watch commercials while the skill players get a shot of Gatorade and look at a Surface Pro.

Promoting political and social causes such as military advocacy (thanks to taxpayer money from the Pentagon) and breast cancer awareness, opening itself to the possibility of causes that offends the overly sensitive and PC middle america that serves as the NFL's base of support.

Moving franchises from areas where they had a long standing fan following (San Diego, Bay Area) to places where the citizens could not care less.

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but none of it matters though as long as Kaepernick is around. Right? RIGHT?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Aye Comrade! Continue to fight the good fight and highlight the role of Emmanual Golds...err I mean Colin Kaepernick to the ills that befall the noble National Football League. It is clearly not a factor that...

More people are eliminating cable/satellite for cheaper, more efficient streaming services.

The NFL charges twice as much for streaming (live) games as other major sports, while charging extra for difference devices, and locking themselves into a single carrier. Oh yea, they charge for an additional service to watch completed games. TLDR: For 1/2 to 1/3 of the price I can watch every MLB game, live or completed, on any device that contains the MLB At-Bat app.

The NFL undermines its marquee players (Brady, Elliot, Peterson, etc.) and teams (Cowboys, Patriots, Saints under bountygate) while sitting on their hands and defending nobodies (Josh Brown).

During the 2000's they altered the rules to encourage more offense through the air, resulting in the blowback of defenses focusing on attacking the quarterback and putting even more importance on that position...

...Which is problematic as the golden era of NFL QB's is coming to an end, as Brees, Brady, Manning(s), Favre, Rodgers, etc. are nearing the end (or have reached it) with no clear heirs in sight.

The NFL has oversaturated itself by spreading its product (Thursday night, London, etc.) thin while an increasingly controversy/click bait obsessed sports media amplifies every NFL mistake.

The NFL is like a box of chocolates...you don't know if you're going to get a gourmet goody or the Thursday Night Ravens/Dolphins game a few weeks ago.

The foot dragging and deflection around head injuries has lowered the participation/interest in youth football, thus decreasing its importance as the national sport of choice.

Roger Goodell.

The officiating continually makes major errors in the most important of moments.

The rules committee continues to drop the ball (pun intended) over the most basic of decisions...such as requiring a receiver to have two hands on the ball, turn, and run through the stadium to the nearest liquor establishment where they have at least 2 drinks of whomever is the primary alcohol sponsor of the NFL at that time.

The primacy of NFL fantasy football has slowly receded amongst the rise of Daily Fantasy Leagues that favor sports that don't contain weaklings that can only play once a week.

The increase in commercial breaks creates for even more of a disjointed user experience, as evidenced by the fact that we now can watch commercials while the skill players get a shot of Gatorade and look at a Surface Pro.

Promoting political and social causes such as military advocacy (thanks to taxpayer money from the Pentagon) and breast cancer awareness, opening itself to the possibility of causes that offends the overly sensitive and PC middle america that serves as the NFL's base of support.

Moving franchises from areas where they had a long standing fan following (San Diego, Bay Area) to places where the citizens could not care less.

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but none of it matters though as long as Kaepernick is around. Right? RIGHT?

Congratulations on pointing out that the NFL has problems beside the Kap, not in lieu of.

Look, it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of the "protest". That isn't the point being discussed here. The point is that millions of NFL fans are put off by it and are showing that displeasure with their wallet. Teams have valid business reasons for not wanting to sign the guy at the root of the recent storm.

 

[deckercky]

Congratulations on pointing out that the NFL has problems beside the Kap, not in lieu of.

Look, it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of the "protest". That isn't the point being discussed here. The point is that millions of NFL fans are put off by it and are showing that displeasure with their wallet. Teams have valid business reasons for not wanting to sign the guy at the root of the recent storm.

And they're free to not hire him for those reasons. What they're not free to do is agree with each other that they will not hire him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Congratulations on pointing out that the NFL has problems beside the Kap, not in lieu of.

Look, it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of the "protest". That isn't the point being discussed here. The point is that millions of NFL fans are put off by it and are showing that displeasure with their wallet. Teams have valid business reasons for not wanting to sign the guy at the root of the recent storm.

The valid business reasons argument is not a logically consistent argument. If it were true that those were the legitimate reasons why they wouldn't hire Kaepernick, it would be the reason why any number of the other players who have continued a protest in some form or another would also not be hired or would have been cut. Since that obviously isn't the case then that reasoning doesn't hold up.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

And they're free to not hire him for those reasons. What they're not free to do is agree with each other that they will not hire him.

Agreed. I never disputed that. I merely pointed out that any owner has a legitimate right not to hire him. It's their decision.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

The valid business reasons argument is not a logically consistent argument. If it were true that those were the legitimate reasons why they wouldn't hire Kaepernick, it would be the reason why any number of the other players who have continued a protest in some form or another would also not be hired or would have been cut. Since that obviously isn't the case then that reasoning doesn't hold up.

They can hire who they want. It's very subjective. Just because they hire dooshnozle A does not mean they have to hire dooshnozle B. Nobody has a guaranteed right to employment. It's just that simple. No more, no less.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They can hire who they want. It's very subjective. Just because they hire dooshnozle A does not mean they have to hire dooshnozle B. Nobody has a guaranteed right to employment. It's just that simple. No more, no less.

That's fine but call it what it is and stop coming up with BS arguments and excuses for it. They're blackballing him out of the league. It may not end up being proven as collusion legally but don't pretend like they have valid business reasons that only apply to Kaepernick because they don't.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

That's fine but call it what it is and stop coming up with BS arguments and excuses for it. They're blackballing him out of the league. It may not end up being proven as collusion legally but don't pretend like they have valid business reasons that only apply to Kaepernick because they don't.

You can call it what you want. There doesn't have to be collusion just because 30 employers don't want to hire somebody. Especially not when there's a pretty good reason why the guy would make for a toxic environment. Seems some people want to pretend the shit storm that's happening isn't really happening.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You can call it what you want. There doesn't have to be collusion just because 30 employers don't want to hire somebody. Especially not when there's a pretty good reason why the guy would make for a toxic environment. Seems some people want to pretend the **** storm that's happening isn't really happening.

No there doesn't and I never said there did. And that pretty good reason is again inconsistent logic that is really just scapegoating. It's not going to resolve the toxic environment issue nor the business issues tied to this situation. Those things were already there and the protest merely shined a light on it and magnified it.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

No there doesn't and I never said there did. And that pretty good reason is again inconsistent logic that is really just scapegoating. It's not going to resolve the toxic environment issue nor the business issues tied to this situation. Those things were already there and the protest merely shined a light on it and magnified it.

You said he was being blackballed. That is the same as collusion.

The world is full of inconsistency. It would be nice if it never existed anywhere, but it does. However, I don't think there is any one player who has caused a backlash and firestorm among more fans more than Kap has. When is the last time one player caused fans around the league to burn their jerseys/jackets/gear and swear off the whole league? This time it isn't just some athlete gone bad. It's a league wide problem. It is having a financial impact on all teams to a degree. I'm not saying there was no collusion because I don't pretend I know (and neither should anybody else), but it isn't hard to see the scenario where there is no collusion just 30 owners who don't want or need the additional headache this guy brings with him.

 

[gstommylee]

And they're free to not hire him for those reasons. What they're not free to do is agree with each other that they will not hire him.

It's going to be hard to prove that all 32 owners conspired to not sign him especially when the ravens tried to sign him before his girlfriend made certain remarks about the owner and ray lewis.

 

[Bluesman]

Congratulations on pointing out that the NFL has problems beside the Kap, not in lieu of.

Look, it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of the "protest". That isn't the point being discussed here. The point is that millions of NFL fans are put off by it and are showing that displeasure with their wallet. Teams have valid business reasons for not wanting to sign the guy at the root of the recent storm.

PROVE IT. Millions of NFL Fans? PROVE IT.

They're showing displeasure with their wallet? PROVE IT. You made the claim, you provide the evidence. I want you to specify that the single point of disinterest/discomfort is Kaepernick for MILLIONS of fans. You said, so now prove it. Otherwise, #fakenews.

The real evidence points to a league that has made a myriad of mistakes that, combined with a declining level of talent/game performance/cultural importance and changing technological trends, has led to a decline of interest. But that doesn't fit the narrative of culture warriors (like yourself) and Red Team vs. Blue Team, so it's tossed aside without any supporting evidence.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You said he was being blackballed. That is the same as collusion.

The world is full of inconsistency. It would be nice if it never existed anywhere, but it does. However, I don't think there is any one player who has caused a backlash and firestorm among more fans more than Kap has. When is the last time one player caused fans around the league to burn their jerseys/jackets/gear and swear off the whole league? This time it isn't just some athlete gone bad. It's a league wide problem. It is having a financial impact on all teams to a degree. I'm not saying there was no collusion because I don't pretend I know (and neither should anybody else), but it isn't hard to see the scenario where there is no collusion just 30 owners who don't want or need the additional headache this guy brings with him.

Your first two lines are incorrect. You can be blackballed without it being proven in the courts as collusion. That all depends on the legal evidence available for the standard that needs to be met for that charge to be legit.

Your second paragraph all really amounts to BS supporting a BS argument which includes some moving of the goal posts. Now it's down to who has caused the most harm or backlash? Well, Kaepernick hasn't been in the league this year and hasn't been protesting at all yet the issue persists. If your logic was consistent and legitimate, they would look to remove those that still engage in the act as it is still causing harm to the product by that line of reasoning. The fact that you also admit in this that it's a league wide problem is evidence that your argument for Kaepernick not having a job is erroneous. If it's a league wide problem then everyone in the league has a player or players that are contributing to the problem by engaging in the act of protesting. Thus, if they were consistent and principled with their reasons for not hiring this other person, they would let go and not hire others that do the exact same thing. But they're not and there's a reason for that. The reasoning they gave for not hiring the guy amounts to a lot of hot air.

As for the fans, they were already leaving the sport for various reasons. I've yet to see anything that legitimately shows that Kaepernick is the reason why things are getting worse for the league. You may be able to make a claim that the protests are having a negative impact on the league but it's not Kaepernick doing the protesting anymore so you can't pin that on him and call it a day. So those arguments simply don't hold any weight when it's actually examined.

 

[mouser]

Your first two lines are incorrect. You can be blackballed without it being proven in the courts as collusion. That all depends on the legal evidence available for the standard that needs to be met for that charge to be legit.

"Blackballed" by definition requires collusion. Unfortunately a lot of the talking heads are misusing the term when discussing Kaepernick.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Your first two lines are incorrect. You can be blackballed without it being proven in the courts as collusion. That all depends on the legal evidence available for the standard that needs to be met for that charge to be legit.

Your second paragraph all really amounts to BS supporting a BS argument which includes some moving of the goal posts. Now it's down to who has caused the most harm or backlash? Well, Kaepernick hasn't been in the league this year and hasn't been protesting at all yet the issue persists. If your logic was consistent and legitimate, they would look to remove those that still engage in the act as it is still causing harm to the product by that line of reasoning. The fact that you also admit in this that it's a league wide problem is evidence that your argument for Kaepernick not having a job is erroneous. If it's a league wide problem then everyone in the league has a player or players that are contributing to the problem by engaging in the act of protesting. Thus, if they were consistent and principled with their reasons for not hiring this other person, they would let go and not hire others that do the exact same thing. But they're not and there's a reason for that. The reasoning they gave for not hiring the guy amounts to a lot of hot air.

As for the fans, they were already leaving the sport for various reasons. I've yet to see anything that legitimately shows that Kaepernick is the reason why things are getting worse for the league. You may be able to make a claim that the protests are having a negative impact on the league but it's not Kaepernick doing the protesting anymore so you can't pin that on him and call it a day. So those arguments simply don't hold any weight when it's actually examined.

You're splitting hairs on blackball and collusion. They both require a group decision which I've admitted I don't know if it occurred or not, but neither does anybody else.

As I said earlier, it really doesn't matter what any of us think. This is the business forum. I'm trying to keep the discussion to that. The NFL has a huge problem that has no simple solution. Kaepernick is seen as the poster child for it because he started it and that brings added pressure to any team that signs him. There's no moving of the goal posts just because the leader of the protest is currently unable to participate.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

"Blackballed" by definition requires collusion. Unfortunately a lot of the talking heads are misusing the term when discussing Kaepernick.

Blackballing is rejecting someone via a secret vote but the point that was to be made was that there can be a blackball that doesn't end up being proven in the court as collusion.

You're splitting hairs on blackball and collusion. They both require a group decision which I've admitted I don't know if it occurred or not, but neither does anybody else.

As I said earlier, it really doesn't matter what any of us think. This is the business forum. I'm trying to keep the discussion to that. The NFL has a huge problem that has no simple solution. Kaepernick is seen as the poster child for it because he started it and that brings added pressure to any team that signs him. There's no moving of the goal posts just because the leader of the protest is currently unable to participate.

That's missing the point. A blackball can happen that doesn't end up being proven as collusion in court. That's what actually matters in this discussion.

You're right that it doesn't matter what any of us think but that's not exactly an impressive point to make. You have been keeping the discussion to business but your points have been weak and easily refutable.

 

[mouser]

Blackballing is rejecting someone via a secret vote but the point that was to be made was that there can be a blackball that doesn't end up being proven in the court as collusion.

Lets make this simpler and remove the entire "blackball" term from the conversation,

Do you believe multiple NFL owners have colluded together to keep Kaepernick out of the league?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Lets make this simpler and remove the entire "blackball" term from the conversation,

Do you believe multiple NFL owners have colluded together to keep Kaepernick out of the league?

Probably but I doubt they left much of a trail of it.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Blackballing is rejecting someone via a secret vote but the point that was to be made was that there can be a blackball that doesn't end up being proven in the court as collusion.



That's missing the point. A blackball can happen that doesn't end up being proven as collusion in court. That's what actually matters in this discussion.

You're right that it doesn't matter what any of us think but that's not exactly an impressive point to make. You have been keeping the discussion to business but your points have been weak and easily refutable.

I haven't seen anybody refute anything. I've just seen people angrily disagree with me. The point is we can have differing opinions and it has no bearing on where it all goes or what finally happens. Actions can have consequences, intended or unintended. Some people have real heartburn over that. Only time will tell how it all plays out. I just know nothing that is happening is good for the league or the players. They are both currently in a lose/lose situation.

 

[TOGuy14]

Discovery phase here could end up hurting Kaepernick's. Kaepernick's GF made a comment about the raven's owner and Ray Lewis which ended up costing him a contract with the Ravens.

He also made comments supportive of Castro which probably cost him a job in Miami, or any other city with a heavy Cuban influence.