OT: MLS commissioner Don Garber wants big-city teams to be bigger deals

[Coinneach]

But in many big markets — including Philadelphia, New York and Boston — MLS is sometimes barely on the radar.

“We have, unfortunately throughout the years, had some of our smaller markets be our most popular teams,” Garber said. “And that’s great, but we’ve got to get our bigger markets — who have way more competition, and have a lot of history that they’re working through and working against — I’m looking forward to seeing them be more successful.”

MLS commissioner Don Garber wants big-city teams to be bigger deals, including in Philadelphia

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[End on a Hinote]

One of the biggest reasons for this has to do with putting those smaller market teams in underserved markets.

Vancouver, Montreal, SLC, Portland, Orlando, and Columbus are in markets with only 1 of the big 4 teams and now has a team in Austin which has 0 of the big 4. So of course popularity in these small markets will be bigger with such little competition.

 

[Hasbro]

People in Hell want ice water.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Doesn’t help teams like New England who had apathetic owner for years.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Doesn’t help teams like New England who had apathetic owner for years.

The demographics arent there in Foxborough,if they had a Soccer stadium in or around Boston where someone can walk to or take the t to the revs would be a bigger draw.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The demographics arent there in Foxborough,if they had a Soccer stadium in or around Boston where someone can walk to or take the t to the revs would be a bigger draw.

That too. But no way Kraft spends another dollar for another stadium when he already has one that’s barely used outside Patriots season.

 

[crimsonace]

MLS is in a difficult spot. It's seen as second-tier by diehard soccer fans who would rather support European teams and watch games on TV than go to the stadium and watch local teams. It's still a bit of a niche sport, even though that niche is growing as soccer becomes a greater phenomenon, especially among 20-somethings. In several Midwestern (that said, part of that niche looks down on MLS). It doesn't have the history in large markets that the major teams do. The Cubs, White Sox, Blackhawks & Bears have been in Chicago for more than 90 years. The Fire, 26. That's one generation of fans who might have grown up with the team who are now old enough to be ticket-buyers.

It took the NFL, NBA, NHL a few generations to *really* take off as spectator sports. In fact, MLB really didn't take off until the 1920s, 40+ years after the National League was created.

 

[93LEAFS]

One of the biggest reasons for this has to do with putting those smaller market teams in underserved markets.

Vancouver, Montreal, SLC, Portland, Orlando, and Columbus are in markets with only 1 of the big 4 teams and now has a team in Austin which has 0 of the big 4. So of course popularity in these small markets will be bigger with such little competition.

I think it needs to be acknowledge in the case of Austin and Columbus that OSU and Texas are essentially religions there when it comes to CFB, with CBB being quite popular too, and even college baseball having a sizable following in Austin. They are also in-between other cities within a reasonable distance that have these teams. Columbus is about 2 to 3 hours from 3 MLB teams, 3 NFL teams, 1 other NHL team, and 1 NBA team. Austin is within 3 hours of 3 NBA teams, 2 NFL teams, 2 MLB teams, and 1 NHL team. Plus, in UT's case, multiple Big 12 rival universities are within close proximity with alum who live in Austin (A&M, TCU and Baylor).

 

[HisIceness]

I have family who used to live within walking distance to Toyota Park in Frisco. There was very little knowledge among them and among their friends/neighbors that there was an MLS franchise in town.

I had to tell a former neighbor of mine who is a Chicago transplant about the Fire, dude had no clue they existed. Big Cubs/Bulls/Bears/Hawks fan.

Not surprised by this.

 

[93LEAFS]

I have family who used to live within walking distance to Toyota Park in Frisco. There was very little knowledge among them and among their friends/neighbors that there was an MLS franchise in town.

I had to tell a former neighbor of mine who is a Chicago transplant about the Fire, dude had no clue they existed. Big Cubs/Bulls/Bears/Hawks fan.

Not surprised by this.

TFC which is in a city with a comparable size to those two does really well, but are obviously behind the Leafs, Raps and Jays. But, they do have a very rabid and devoted fanbase. I don't think it helps the fan experience though (a big thing TFC pushes) to play in Soldier Field. Its just too big for the level of draw they are which kills the environment.

Also, for Frisco. It's Texas and Soccer. Let this informative clip illustrate that point.

 

[tarheelhockey]

MLS is in a difficult spot. It's seen as second-tier by diehard soccer fans who would rather support European teams and watch games on TV than go to the stadium and watch local teams. It's still a bit of a niche sport, even though that niche is growing as soccer becomes a greater phenomenon, especially among 20-somethings. In several Midwestern (that said, part of that niche looks down on MLS). It doesn't have the history in large markets that the major teams do. The Cubs, White Sox, Blackhawks & Bears have been in Chicago for more than 90 years. The Fire, 26. That's one generation of fans who might have grown up with the team who are now old enough to be ticket-buyers.

It took the NFL, NBA, NHL a few generations to *really* take off as spectator sports. In fact, MLB really didn't take off until the 1920s, 40+ years after the National League was created.

I think you can extend this beyond sports as well. In cities like NYC and Chicago, you’re not just competing against other sports teams for attention. The entertainment market is crowded, media coverage is spread thin, and people can only get hyped about so just many things at a time.

In a smaller market, an MLS team has a shot at promoting themselves to the forefront of general public attention. It’s not easy but it can be done. In a large city, it’s just not gonna happen. If they win the championship, it makes headlines for like a day, and then people are on to Fashion Week or the marathon. There’s just not nearly the traction that a Big 4 team can generate.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I think you can extend this beyond sports as well. In cities like NYC and Chicago, you’re not just competing against other sports teams for attention. The entertainment market is crowded, media coverage is spread thin, and people can only get hyped about so just many things at a time.

In a smaller market, an MLS team has a shot at promoting themselves to the forefront of general public attention. It’s not easy but it can be done. In a large city, it’s just not gonna happen. If they win the championship, it makes headlines for like a day, and then people are on to Fashion Week or the marathon. There’s just not nearly the traction that a Big 4 team can generate.

Atlanta worked out pretty well, to be fair.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Atlanta worked out pretty well, to be fair.

Atlanta’s also a lot smaller than the NYC, Chicago, Boston tier of cities.

 

[Canes]

Well what does he expect when the MLS has a salary cap and teams have to field a certain amount of US born players? There aren't enough star US born players playing in MLS and teams being limited in who they can bring in either by import player rules or the salary cap certainly doesn't help.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Atlanta’s also a lot smaller than the NYC, Chicago, Boston tier of cities.

It’s still a big city. It’s not exactly Tampa or Nashville.

 

[Weztex]

Atlanta’s also a lot smaller than the NYC, Chicago, Boston tier of cities.

Atlanta metropolitan area is over 1 million bigger than Boston.

Atlanta : 5 949 950
Boston : 4 975 390

 

[93LEAFS]

Atlanta metropolitan area is over 1 million bigger than Boston.

Atlanta : 5 949 950
Boston : 4 975 390

It depends on how you look at it. Boston is a significant city in the East Coast Metroplex which is the most populated area in the United States with a CSA about 1.5m more. Boston is the heart of New England. Although, I don't think one is significantly bigger than the other.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

It depends on how you look at it. Boston is a significant city in the East Coast Metroplex which is the most populated area in the United States with a CSA about 1.5m more. Boston is the heart of New England. Although, I don't think one is significantly bigger than the other.

Atlanta is the heart of the south though. Their teams have fans stretching from Mississippi to Alabama, all the way to South Carolina.

 

[93LEAFS]

Atlanta is the heart of the south though. Their teams have fans stretching from Mississippi to Alabama, all the way to South Carolina.

Teams like the Braves have a big following, especially due to them being so frequently aired on TBS. I'm not sure that carries over to the Hawks. I would assume Falcons territory is hurt in the south by the Titans, Carolina, Saints and to a less extent the Northern and Central Florida teams.

My main point though one city isn't really significantly bigger than the other. It really depends on what metric (MSA vs CSA) you look at. They are both within reasonable measure by both.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Atlanta metropolitan area is over 1 million bigger than Boston.

Atlanta : 5 949 950
Boston : 4 975 390

This is like the figures in the other recent thread showing San Francisco the same size as Montreal.

Boston is a larger city, and a much larger sports market, than Atlanta. States like Mississippi and SC are only nominally part of the Atlanta market because of their broadcast status... in reality they’re simply pro sports vacuums where college sports dominate. As opposed to Boston’s reach across New England, where hardcore Bruins/Pats/Celts/Sox loyalty is very real.

Believe me, nobody in SC cares about the Hawks let alone Atlanta’s MLS team.

 

[crimsonace]

Well what does he expect when the MLS has a salary cap and teams have to field a certain amount of US born players? There aren't enough star US born players playing in MLS and teams being limited in who they can bring in either by import player rules or the salary cap certainly doesn't help.

That salary cap helps the league keep the lights on, too. Cost control is important for a league whose revenues are limited. It's not going to be the Bundesliga or the EPL, and American soccer fans have to accept that fact rather than complain that a league that is in its relative infancy in a crowded marketplace isn't set up exactly like the top Euro leagues. Those of us who are old enough to remember the NASL saw its rapid demise after nobody could keep up with the Cosmos' spending. The league was shaky because of that, and the early 1980s recession killed it. We were without *any* top-level pro soccer league for more than a decade. MLS embraced slow, steady growth and a business model that works in the U.S.

 

[eddygee]

Well what does he expect when the MLS has a salary cap and teams have to field a certain amount of US born players? There aren't enough star US born players playing in MLS and teams being limited in who they can bring in either by import player rules or the salary cap certainly doesn't help.

I don't think the Salary is much of a factor as the average MLS team spends about $12 mil on the roster and the very top teams have spent up to $25mil in recent years. Teams have a Salary Floor but can spend an unlimited amount on 3( DP's) Designated Players which are usually paid between $2-8mil each. The biggest reason the Big Markets struggle relative to say a NHL is that when most teams were formed in the mid 90s they were immediately relagated with a few years of existence to Minor League status think Arena Football/Minor League Baseball. So once perceptions are formed they are hard to break, they can be broken but it takes time and as been alluded to its a generation length change. MLS has grown in stature as its now been in existence for 25 yrs, its a Proper Major League thru in thru looking at attendance and Revenue it's a billion dollar Revenue Professional League now.

So as you have seen that growth it's now taken seriously in Newer markets vs the 90s MLS teams ex. Seattle/Portland/Toronto/LAFC/Atlanta/Orlando etc. It's easier being the new guy vice trying to shake a outdated perception. I do think that perception will eventually fade as fans in those newer markets keep seeing the excitement in new MLS cities that will join the league in the next 4 yrs. Nashville/Miami/Charlotte/Sacramento then not announced but will end up in MLS Detroit/Phoenix.

 

[Canes]

That salary cap helps the league keep the lights on, too. Cost control is important for a league whose revenues are limited. It's not going to be the Bundesliga or the EPL, and American soccer fans have to accept that fact rather than complain that a league that is in its relative infancy in a crowded marketplace isn't set up exactly like the top Euro leagues. Those of us who are old enough to remember the NASL saw its rapid demise after nobody could keep up with the Cosmos' spending. The league was shaky because of that, and the early 1980s recession killed it. We were without *any* top-level pro soccer league for more than a decade. MLS embraced slow, steady growth and a business model that works in the U.S.

I don't think the Salary is much of a factor as the average MLS team spends about $12 mil on the roster and the very top teams have spent up to $25mil in recent years. Teams have a Salary Floor but can spend an unlimited amount on 3( DP's) Designated Players which are usually paid between $2-8mil each. The biggest reason the Big Markets struggle relative to say a NHL is that when most teams were formed in the mid 90s they were immediately relagated with a few years of existence to Minor League status think Arena Football/Minor League Baseball. So once perceptions are formed they are hard to break, they can be broken but it takes time and as been alluded to its a generation length change. MLS has grown in stature as its now been in existence for 25 yrs, its a Proper Major League thru in thru looking at attendance and Revenue it's a billion dollar Revenue Professional League now.

So as you have seen that growth it's now taken seriously in Newer markets vs the 90s MLS teams ex. Seattle/Portland/Toronto/LAFC/Atlanta/Orlando etc. It's easier being the new guy vice trying to shake a outdated perception. I do think that perception will eventually fade as fans in those newer markets keep seeing the excitement in new MLS cities that will join the league in the next 4 yrs. Nashville/Miami/Charlotte/Sacramento then not announced but will end up in MLS Detroit/Phoenix.

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I understand why there's a salary cap and a domestic player rule but those things don't exactly jive with making the league as exciting and interesting as possible. It only imposes more limits on the league that a lot of other teams in different leagues don't have to deal with. If a wealthy MLS owner wants to bring in better players in an effort to make their team more interesting and competitive, their hands are tied to a certain extent. There is not enough talent in the league to operate it like the NFL, MLB, NBA, or NHL, etc... where there's so much homegrown talent to go around things like an entry draft and a salary cap don't really hinder the entertainment factor. As long as the MLS remains more of a development type league with a North American sports business/operating model, its growth is limited, IMO.

 

[eddygee]

I understand why there's a salary cap and a domestic player rule but those things don't exactly jive with making the league as exciting and interesting as possible. It only imposes more limits on the league that a lot of other teams in different leagues don't have to deal with. If a wealthy MLS owner wants to bring in better players in an effort to make their team more interesting and competitive, their hands are tied to a certain extent. There is not enough talent in the league to operate it like the NFL, MLB, NBA, or NHL, etc... where there's so much homegrown talent to go around things like an entry draft and a salary cap don't really hinder the entertainment factor. As long as the MLS remains more of a development type league with a North American sports business/operating model, its growth is limited, IMO.

I can definitely understand that argument I see it alot. IMO I think the thing that's missed is MLS doesn't have to operate at the level of spending as the NFL,MLB,NBA, or NHL. Its gotten to a point where you can legitimately state there is now a Big 5 and MLS has staked the 5th Top Professional Sports League in the US and it got there in it's current state as arguably the 12-13th best League in the World out of a 100 or so leagues.

I don't really see the issue with limits because of domestic players, I've followed MLS since 2005, I don't believe MLS has strict foreign player restrictions like some leagues, in fact its been a issue with not enough young Americans being able to find a spot or meaningful minutes on a roster because of foreign Euro/South American players taking away minutes. As far as salary if you're comparing MLS range of $12-20+ mil against the other Big 5 that spend $80-100mil+ on individual team salaries that's obviously where MLS is falling short. However, MLS is doing good enough for soccer spending; where outside of the top 5 global leagues (the tier 1 in soccer) MLS spending is competitive and they are raiding South American leagues (see Argentina) for talent because teams are facing tougher economical times down there. This will only increase because MLS salary spending should increase by 2x as much after the next TV deal after 2022.

 

[cutchemist42]

TFC which is in a city with a comparable size to those two does really well, but are obviously behind the Leafs, Raps and Jays. But, they do have a very rabid and devoted fanbase. I don't think it helps the fan experience though (a big thing TFC pushes) to play in Soldier Field. Its just too big for the level of draw they are which kills the environment.

Also, for Frisco. It's Texas and Soccer. Let this informative clip illustrate that point.

I think part of what helps TFC as well is being the Canadian club in a league with Americsn cities. It's a built in brand, and which likely helps makes it the most successful big market team in MLS.