OT Hernandez's suicide in prison after conviction, appeal puts estate in limbo

[LadyStanley]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aaron-...d-nfl-pension-revenue-question-142740003.html
Aaron Hernandez's estate entitled to NFL pension; other revenue in question

In brief, initial conviction on appeals = to be considered innocent. Conviction = $$ forfeited.

Will be interesting to see how things play out.

Click to read more...

 

[MAHJ71]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aaron-...d-nfl-pension-revenue-question-142740003.html
Aaron Hernandez's estate entitled to NFL pension; other revenue in question

In brief, initial conviction on appeals = to be considered innocent. Conviction = $$ forfeited.

Will be interesting to see how things play out.

Especially considering theres likely civil suites to be brought by the families of the deceased victims.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Especially considering theres likely civil suites to be brought by the families of the deceased victims.

yep and that is the big one. because of state law--he died without exhausting all avenues--the State says he is innocent and the family is unable to use the guilty verdict against him in the civil case.

Pats are stuck between a rock and a hard place---Most talking heads expect at least a 10 million buck lawsuit from the Hernendez family against the Pats for loss of income, wrongful dismissal and other fun stuff like that

 

[PBandJ]

yep and that is the big one. because of state law--he died without exhausting all avenues--the State says he is innocent and the family is unable to use the guilty verdict against him in the civil case.

Pats are stuck between a rock and a hard place---Most talking heads expect at least a 10 million buck lawsuit from the Hernendez family against the Pats for loss of income, wrongful dismissal and other fun stuff like that

That law doesn't make a separate distinction for suicide? If not, that definitely has to be changed.

 

[Jumptheshark]

That law doesn't make a separate distinction for suicide? If not, that definitely has to be changed.

he is dead therefor innocent in how the law is currently understood, viewed and implemented

 

[mouser]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/aaron-...d-nfl-pension-revenue-question-142740003.html
Aaron Hernandez's estate entitled to NFL pension; other revenue in question

In brief, initial conviction on appeals = to be considered innocent. Conviction = $$ forfeited.

Will be interesting to see how things play out.

Actually the NFL CBA doesn't say a conviction is required to forfeit money. It says if a player is unable to fulfill their contract due to incarceration resulting from their own conduct.

There's no question that AH was incarcerated and unable to report/play for the team. The legal nitpicking here is going to be over the language "resulting from their own conduct". I can see arguments for both sides.

yep and that is the big one. because of state law--he died without exhausting all avenues--the State says he is innocent and the family is unable to use the guilty verdict against him in the civil case.

Pats are stuck between a rock and a hard place---Most talking heads expect at least a 10 million buck lawsuit from the Hernendez family against the Pats for loss of income, wrongful dismissal and other fun stuff like that

So far as I'm aware the Patriots only withheld $5.5m of "guaranteed" money from AH. I would expect that's the upper bound on what they could realistically go after.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Actually the NFL CBA doesn't say a conviction is required to forfeit money. It says if a player is unable to fulfill their contract due to incarceration resulting from their own conduct.

There's no question that AH was incarcerated and unable to report/play for the team. The legal nitpicking here is going to be over the language "resulting from their own conduct". I can see arguments for both sides.



So far as I'm aware the Patriots only withheld $5.5m of "guaranteed" money from AH. I would expect that's the upper bound on what they could realistically go after.

since he is innocent

add
1) Interest to the original money
2) Wrongful termination of contract
3) Damaging his reputation

The Hernandez lawyers will be in court for a decade sorting this out

 

[mouser]

since he is innocent

add
1) Interest to the original money
2) Wrongful termination of contract
3) Damaging his reputation

The Hernandez lawyers will be in court for a decade sorting this out

1) Okay, so 1% annually compounded over 4 years.
2) Non-issue. NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed. The Patriots didn't need any justification to terminate the contract. The legal debate is whether the Pats are obligated to pay the "guaranteed" portion of the contract after cutting AH.
3) Thats going to require an improbably high legal threshold to meet.

 

[Jumptheshark]

1) Okay, so 1% annually compounded over 4 years.
2) Non-issue. NFL contracts are not fully guaranteed. The Patriots didn't need any justification to terminate the contract. The legal debate is whether the Pats are obligated to pay the "guaranteed" portion of the contract after cutting AH.
3) Thats going to require an improbably high legal threshold to meet.

and the money he could have made off of that money

 

[mouser]

and the money he could have made off of that money

That's not usually how these things works.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, the family's going about this the wrong way. The Patriots shouldn't be sued because Hernandez was a thug before joining the team and stayed that way after getting drafted. Don't saint this guy now just because he's dead.

 

[LadyStanley]

Actually the NFL CBA doesn't say a conviction is required to forfeit money. It says if a player is unable to fulfill their contract due to incarceration resulting from their own conduct.

Guaranteed $$ vs non?

 

[mouser]

Guaranteed $$ vs non?

The clause applies to both guaranteed and non-guaranteed compensation. In this situation since the contract was terminated the team doesn't have to deal with any of the non-guaranteed unpaid salary. The dispute should be limited to the guaranteed money that was due to be paid to AH on a later date after the Pats terminated the contract. The team has so far withheld that money on a claim of Forfeitable Breach by AH. I believe the dispute has fully gone through the NFL CBA's grievance process with the Pats prevailing, but don't quote me on that.

It also raises the question of whether the PA might have to go through a new CBA grievance arbitration first, before a court would take the case.

 

[Kane One]

since he is innocent

add
1) Interest to the original money
2) Wrongful termination of contract
3) Damaging his reputation

The Hernandez lawyers will be in court for a decade sorting this out

What? I honestly haven't been keeping up with all-things Aaron Hernandez, including his arrest, but wasn't he found guilty?

Edit - I just read it may be vacated.

 

[TOGuy14]

This is an interesting twist to this case and would certainly switch the narrative surrounding his post NFL actions to somewhat selfless with regards to his estate and the future well being of his daughter.

I had read a lot of chatter that he had exhausted almost all of his NFL money mounting his legal defence. If all of this is true, his daughter would stand to receive significant support for the rest of her life.

 

[Brick City]

Yeah, the family's going about this the wrong way. The Patriots shouldn't be sued because Hernandez was a thug before joining the team and stayed that way after getting drafted. Don't saint this guy now just because he's dead.

Under the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts he goes to his maker an innocent man. There was a case against some white collar defendant who embezzled in another state with a similar law, guy had a heart attack and died while conviction was on appeal. His family got his millions frozen at the time.

Suicide probably should be an exception but don't think it is at the moment. Guessing pats should settle this quick unless they want to pay more in legal fees.

 

[mouser]

Under the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts he goes to his maker an innocent man. There was a case against some white collar defendant who embezzled in another state with a similar law, guy had a heart attack and died while conviction was on appeal. His family got his millions frozen at the time.

Suicide probably should be an exception but don't think it is at the moment. Guessing pats should settle this quick unless they want to pay more in legal fees.

The legal wrinkle in this is that the Pats were able to withhold some money from AH due to the CBA bargained between the NFL and their PA. That money wasn't directly withheld as a result of AH being declared guilty in his criminal trial--it was withheld because the CBA has provisions to do so if a player is jailed and/or unable to report to the team and play. Both of which happened with AH.

So long as a CBA doesn't do something illegal, that collective bargaining will usually be given deference by the courts. However, the CBA language is not clear cut on whether guilt or innocence in the court system is required to forfeit money imo.

So we face possibly both a CBA disagreement between the NFL and the NFLPA as well as a possible civil suit.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I hate to say this, but could this be a reason he did what he did?

 

[DoyleG]

I hate to say this, but could this be a reason he did what he did?

Yes, the Budd Dwyer tactic.

 

[Kane One]

Under the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts he goes to his maker an innocent man. There was a case against some white collar defendant who embezzled in another state with a similar law, guy had a heart attack and died while conviction was on appeal. His family got his millions frozen at the time.

Suicide probably should be an exception but don't think it is at the moment. Guessing pats should settle this quick unless they want to pay more in legal fees.

I think the CEO of Enron is who you're referring to.

 

[Yukon Joe]

That's not usually how these things works.

Actually it does.

Most jurisdictions I'm aware of (though I don't know Massachusetts) have a set "Judgement interest Rate" for each year, which of course varies depending on inflation and interest rates. If a court determines that you were owed $100,000 in 2010, that amount will be increased by the Judgment Interest Rate for each year in coming to the total award payable now.

It is a fairly stingy interest rate, but it does exist.

 

[mouser]

Reading some more detailed articles, this appears to be the current situation:

- AH signed a 7 years $39.6m contract in 2012 with the Patriots.
- $15.95m of that contract was guaranteed. $12.5m in a signing bonus and a total of $3m in base salary over the first 3 years. The other $400k appears to be in guaranteed roster/workout bonuses for 2012/13.
- The Pats released AH in June of 2013 after he was charged with murder.
- At that time $9.25m of the signing bonus had already been paid out.
- The Pats filed a grievance charged forfeitable breach of contract. While that grievance is being processed the team has withheld:
-- $3.25m in remaining signing bonus.
-- $1.323m in 2013 guaranteed salary
-- $1.137m in 2014 guaranteed salary
-- $500k in a 2014 guaranteed workout bonus

Grievances were filed by AH/PA for
a) Payment of the $3.25m in signing bonus.
b) Payment of the total $2.96m in 2013/14 salary and workout bonuses.

Grievances were filed by the Pats for
c) Forfeiture of the withheld money for contract breach.
d) Seeking repayment of money from AH. Not clear what these amounts are, good possibility it's a request for a pro-rated portion of the signing bonus.

The NFL arbitrator dismissed (b), though he did so without prejudice so it can be resubmitted again. The NFL and PA agreed to put the grievances for (a), (c) and (d) on hold until AH's criminal cases were concluded.

So this is now going to go back to the NFL arbitrator and grievance process. As a point of note, the NFL CBA stipulates that dispute resolution over an issue like this is to be resolved exclusively by the System Arbitrator. That doesn't block the ability to file a lawsuit, but courts generally don't like to take up cases like that before the contractually stipulated dispute resolution process has run its course.

 

[GordonGecko]

"Aaron Hernandez, the former New England Patriots tight end who committed suicide in April while serving a life sentence for murder, was found to have one of the most severe forms of C.T.E., the degenerative brain disease linked to repeated head trauma that has been found in more than 100 former N.F.L. players.

A lawyer for Hernandez, Jose Baez, in announcing the result at a news conference Thursday, said researchers determined it was “the most severe case they had ever seen in someone of Aaron’s age,” which was 27."

 

[madhi19]

"Aaron Hernandez, the former New England Patriots tight end who committed suicide in April while serving a life sentence for murder, was found to have one of the most severe forms of C.T.E., the degenerative brain disease linked to repeated head trauma that has been found in more than 100 former N.F.L. players.

A lawyer for Hernandez, Jose Baez, in announcing the result at a news conference Thursday, said researchers determined it was “the most severe case they had ever seen in someone of Aaron’s age,†which was 27."

We knew that sooner or later something like this would blow up in the face of a league. The NFL is pretty damn lucky to have settled the concussion lawsuit already. The NHL not so much.

 

[GordonGecko]

The NHL not so much.

"what did you know and when did you know it"