OT: Girl forced off of Boys Hockey Team

[doobie604]

So now you have me confused. Why should a mother have to hide an email from her daughter about the agenda for a hockey meeting? The mother wasn't the one to write the agenda, why is she to blame? If this had been your daughter and she found the agenda or asked you what the meeting was about, would you lie to her? And the grandmother was within her rights to get the media involved, don't piss off a little child's grandma or you'll pay the price. The newspaper did exactly what newspapers do, took a story and ran with it. It's not the newspaper's fault that Atis threw them a big meatball. The person to blame, and the only person who should get the blame is Atis. One last thing, Atis is the only person making the claims about the issue with changing in the locker room and the girl's ability to play. No one else has stepped up and supported this guy's claims. That should make you wonder just a bit how valid his argument really is.

because a mother is there to protect their child and filter these type of things. the adults should do the fighting, it's not up to the child. by letting her read the letter all it's done is made her sad and quit the team. grandmother went to the media that's fine, but think about how the child would feel if on her new teammates/opponents read the article and then gossip or chirp about how crappy she is if she's not very good. these are kids, they're not going to debate about it like adults. and ofcourse nobody is going to support this, it's basically putting up a big target for being called a sexist, and getting hatemails. not supporting George here, but it's blown way out of proportion.

 

[Dump and Chase]

So now you have me confused. Why should a mother have to hide an email from her daughter about the agenda for a hockey meeting? The mother wasn't the one to write the agenda, why is she to blame? If this had been your daughter and she found the agenda or asked you what the meeting was about, would you lie to her?

Because the agenda is one misguided mans opinion. As a parent I protect my children from idiots. Just because someone put it out there in the world and it is about my daughter does not mean that I show it to my daughter. As a parent I decide what is good for my daughter to see.

And the grandmother was within her rights to get the media involved, don't piss off a little child's grandma or you'll pay the price.

It is not about what is within the grandmothers rights. It is about doing what is right for the child you are rearing. Can you really not see the difference?

The person to blame, and the only person who should get the blame is Atis. One last thing, Atis is the only person making the claims about the issue with changing in the locker room and the girl's ability to play. No one else has stepped up and supported this guy's claims. That should make you wonder just a bit how valid his argument really is.

So you need a quote from a 12 year old boy as proof that some of them were uncomfortable changing in front of a girl? If you can't figure this out for yourself you either being purposefully obtuse or you a long way removed from being a 12 year old boy.


Atis is completely out of line injecting his opinion about how much a player should be playing and what position that child should be playing. It is none of his damn business unless he is part of the coaching staff.


Other than that the other points he brought to the table in a parents meeting are completely valid. He has a right to know how the money is being handled and he has right to express his opinion about a 12 year old girl changing with 12 year old boys. Hell when I was 10 I started showering after hockey games. You can't do that with a girl in the room.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Just a note on the Grandmother threatening to "spin" the story as a PC issue, the only source for that comment is Mr. Atis who, IMO, seems to have a pretty big axe to grind with Mrs. and Mrs. Atkins. I would say anything he proclaims to be gospel is highly suspect at this point.

 

[Dump and Chase]

Just a note on the Grandmother threatening to "spin" the story as a PC issue, the only source for that comment is Mr. Atis who, IMO, seems to have a pretty big axe to grind with Mrs. and Mrs. Atkins. I would say anything he proclaims to be gospel is highly suspect at this point.

Fair enough.


I was going on the fact that it was proclaimed in a public forum (parent meeting) and easily substantiated. He quoted her in print and as a lawyer I was giving the benefit of the doubt that he would understand libel implications.

 

[mooseOAK*]

It's sad when "AAA" level parents only have "A" level kids.

Give yourself a cookie for that one.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Fair enough.


I was going on the fact that it was proclaimed in a public forum (parent meeting) and easily substantiated. He quoted her in print and as a lawyer I was giving the benefit of the doubt that he would understand libel implications.

A valid point, and I very well could eat humble pie on this, but thinking things through before he speaks does not appear to be a strong point for him.

 

[Kritter471]

So you need a quote from a 12 year old boy as proof that some of them were uncomfortable changing in front of a girl? If you can't figure this out for yourself you either being purposefully obtuse or you a long way removed from being a 12 year old boy.


Atis is completely out of line injecting his opinion about how much a player should be playing and what position that child should be playing. It is none of his damn business unless he is part of the coaching staff.


Other than that the other points he brought to the table in a parents meeting are completely valid. He has a right to know how the money is being handled and he has right to express his opinion about a 12 year old girl changing with 12 year old boys. Hell when I was 10 I started showering after hockey games. You can't do that with a girl in the room.

The problem is, his proposed solutions had nothing to do with separate changing rooms or when should it be a boys only team. It only dealt with reducing her ice time and her perceiving talent faults. Like you said, that's none of his damn business.

He absolutely has a right to know how money is being handled. He has a right to express his opinion about the appropriateness of the changing situation, but that should be handled with the coach and not with the rest of the parents.

Further more, you can totally shower if a girl is in the locker room. It's called a towel. Wear it. Pull your boxers/briefs/whatever on with it on. Professional players who deal with open locker rooms do this all the time. If they can figure out how to change modestly with reporters, microphones and cameras around, surely a 12 year old can figure out how to avoid awkward moments around a single girl. At this age, she's likely in a sports bra and could easily slip into that in a bathroom stall, so this whole "could be accidentally exposed to her" is also a red herring. It's astoundingly easily correctable.

But again, given his proposed solutions are all about reduced ice time, his real point is not that a girl should not be on the team. His real point is he doesn't think this particular player is good enough for a low-level youth team. And even you can agree he has no standing to make that point.

Could it really be because she's a she (as opposed to her being "different" just makes her an easier target)? Very possibly. But if that's his problem, he needs to man up and make it the problem instead of making the problem her playing ability.

 

[Gino 14]

Fair enough.


I was going on the fact that it was proclaimed in a public forum (parent meeting) and easily substantiated. He quoted her in print and as a lawyer I was giving the benefit of the doubt that he would understand libel implications.

You seem to take most of what he says as gospel. You really have no idea what the issues were, only that Atis used them for his leverage. You have no idea how the girl got the agenda, again you are going on Atis's say so. House league players don't always change at the rink and it's an issue that should be addressed to the coach if it is an issue, not the parents. Let's see how compassionate you are when your kids get a little older and you realize that you can't protect them from all the idiots out there.

 

[LaLaLaprise]

I honestly dont understand why this is a GENDER issue....actually I do understand why but i dont get it...

Atis is a moron for doing what he did to a 12 year old...PERIOD...doesnt matter if shes a girl...

Its just stupid that everyone is spinning this as "girl" forced off team when really that isnt the main issue...the main issue is that a 12 year old kid had to go thru that...doesnt matter if shes a girl...if it was done to a boy itd be just as bad, but unfortunately we wouldnt hear as much about it.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

It's not for the parent to decide what's best for the team. That's the coach's job. Mr. Atis was completely out of line in terms of how he handled this, and trying to cast blame on the mother and grandmother is gutless and juvenile.

I think he's angry that the girl was eating up some of his son's precious ice time. It's even worse when you figure in the guy probably thinks his kid is making the big leagues. I notice that the quieter parents usually breed the NHL-calibre player, not the loud-mouth, know-it-all, do-gooder parent.

 

[the_speedster]

Holy Cow, is the internet ever eating this guy alive! lol

Puckdaddy/yahoo did an article on him and if you should peruse the commentary, not only would you find that 99.99% of people are on the kids side..

Apparently George Atis is now the pseudonym for "******" (curse filter's gonna get that huh? Fine I'll just say, "feminine hygene product "

And his work number, office and apparently home number are all on there

Methinks the twit should pull a "mei culpa". As someone argued on here a while ago.. The COACH never said a thing to her.. to him,.. SHE wasn't the reason they were losing. Nothing else on the "agenda" was discussed regarding the teams loses but her (Didn't see anything about the goalie's prowess, their power play,.. first line centre....) So for those arguing as to why this ISN'T a girl thing.. Ask yourself is it possible that ONE single player can cause his/her team so many loses and not be noticed by the coach?

And then the crap about her getting a glimpse of little johnny's even littler johnny? (er... I woulda brought it up to the coach and maybe an agreement about her changing in the bathroom or different room and coming in once johnny's amazing slong had been safely tucked away where only daddy could see, could've been made)

Stop kidding yourself.. this wasn't just about a girl being on their team.. this was about a girl not being lights out better than anyone else,.. being on their team... Same as has been echoed by many "minority" type players... you have to be twice as good to be taken just as seriously"

So what if she was a run of the mill player? Anyways... hope the guy pulls his head out of his ass and for the sake of his family apologizes.... though like many a bully, I doubt he will unless cornered..

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I always hated playing against girls. You couldn't hit them, so they would just skate down the ice with the head down and you couldn't do anything...

I rember one bantam game I was ticked we were losing, so I leveled a girl...

The parrents in the stands boo'ed me....

Haha. I had a girl on my team and a girl on the other team laid her the **** out. Hit was pretty high and a bit dirty. I laid her out on the next shift and the girl on my team was about as happy as possible.

It's not about gender in contact sports and it never should be. There's no reason not to hit a girl if she's playing in a contact sport. Equal rights, equal hits. In fact, I think most girls would tell you it would piss them off if boys weren't playing them the way that they play each other. It's kind of disrespectful.

 

[dannythekid]

12 years old is about the time she should be playing on a girls only team with similar playing levels.

Hockey and ice-time is expensive and parents want to see their kids getting the best of both. Some parents can be ruthless I know, but simply stating that a player is not improving after 14 games is just an opionion. She didn't have to quit.

 

[diceman934]

This is a person who has no character at all.

The situation that it is a girl is really not the issue......the issue is that a parent should be just that.

Read the whole story that he posted on his own blog......this is a bully period. Blaming the mother and the grandmother for her hearing about the agenda.....well you wrote it and e mailed all the parents....who do you think is at fault?


Items on the agenda were a personal attack against this parent and her child. The man is not a coach on the team but a parent. The gender of the player is not the issue.....the act is.

The coach should have stopped this with a simple......stop it or you can take your son with you. End of discussion. I have coached long enough to know, that parents at times are nut bars....tell them to stop or go away.

Just for your information.....the team was 5-8-1 at the time of her leaving.....they are now 8-14-1 or 3-6-0 since she left.....sure looks like she was the issue. They are worse since......

Her current team was 2-5-1 when she joined since then they are 1-1-3 much better then they were......

I have a girls hockey forum that I have ran for 8 years in Ontario...if interested it is http://www.network54.com/Forum/283026/

 

[wjhl2009fan]

12 years old is about the time she should be playing on a girls only team with similar playing levels.

Hockey and ice-time is expensive and parents want to see their kids getting the best of both. Some parents can be ruthless I know, but simply stating that a player is not improving after 14 games is just an opionion. She didn't have to quit.

It is a coed team and its a level which is very low its not rec hockey but its close.

 

[Briere Up There*]

Wow this is a big issue.

 

[BenchBrawl]

you either forgot this

or this

Either way, you're very entitled to your opinion, but wow

You can insult me all you want or think I'm primitive , but you couldn't be more wrong about me.Even taking this into consideration , even I can see the common sense in separating boys & girls in sports , physically and psychologically speaking.

The transgenderisation of modern society has to stop somewhere and people like you are just contributing to a larger and larger percentage of the population not feeling good in their gender role.I could elaborate my opinion on that but that would take a lot of time and a hockey forum definately wouldn't be the place for it.

When I listen to this extreme gender equality ******** ( not saying it was better when female were considered inferior beings on all counts , but this is clearly not the case anymore ) I can't help but think people would love a world where humans had both gender and just produce kids on their own all by themselves

 

[the_speedster]

http://memegenerator.net/George-Atis-*********

 

[WhooFleuryScores]

Wow and my Dad, best friend, sister, and neighbor were pissed that I didn't play that many minutes in our championship game.......yesh. Hope things work out for her and the rest though!

 

[sjmay*]

You can insult me all you want or think I'm primitive , but you couldn't be more wrong about me.Even taking this into consideration , even I can see the common sense in separating boys & girls in sports , physically and psychologically speaking.

The transgenderisation of modern society has to stop somewhere and people like you are just contributing to a larger and larger percentage of the population not feeling good in their gender role.I could elaborate my opinion on that but that would take a lot of time and a hockey forum definately wouldn't be the place for it.

When I listen to this extreme gender equality ******** ( not saying it was better when female were considered inferior beings on all counts , but this is clearly not the case anymore ) I can't help but think people would love a world where humans had both gender and just produce kids on their own all by themselves

You must have no experience in sports, or children. Separating them based solely on gender is inexcusable. I played with girls that would kick the crap out of guys, at age 16+, I have also played with girls that have won gold medals and could outplay most boys their age. I have coached co-ed's as well. The only time you should separate sports is based on safety, and even then, most of the time it will be left up to the family decide.

 

[Analyzer*]

It was a d-bag move. However, isn't A hockey just house league ? Doesn't matter who's good, or who sucks, you just go out there and play.

I've played hockey with girls on my team who sucked, but I got frustrated at times, but overall didn't care. People need to relax. Hell, I've played with 2 and 3 girls on the team at once.

 

[doakacola*]

Mr. Atis needs a good kick in the teeth.

That it's a young lady that was singled out and not a young boy is a non-issue. These are 12-year-old kids, and you're drafting letters suggesting they limit their ice time because they're not good enough? In one of the lowest levels of hockey, period?

The guy should be ashamed of himself. At that level of play, it's all about having fun, teamwork and sportsmanship. What a freaking knob.

Atis=DBag

 

[Crosbyfan]

Ok I am going to clarify a few things:

First, if "A" level is house league (like beer league for kids) then my apologies for the mix up

Second, I don't have my own kids but I live on my own and have a job. I also do remember my childhood quite well and remember what it was like to be 12 and also know what its like for current 12 year old since I have worked with kids a lot and know more than most people on here.

Third, I agree that Atis is a nut/******* and should be barred from the team, but not his son, he didn't do anything unless proven otherwise. But also, lets keep in mind that all the parents came to the meeting and heard this guy speak, including the girls parents. So these meetings must have been a normal occurrence for this team. And upon hearing this guy slander a little girl, no one dig nothing during the meeting? Well you know the saying that goes if you do nothing or say nothing you basically agree to what the other person is saying right?

Fourth, There are a lot of facts missing from this story such as the following; Did any of the parents confront him in person? Did the coach actually do anything as a coach? Was this a long standing problem because she has been on the team for 2 years? Did the kids share the opinions of the father or was he the only one? Lots of variables that a make a difference

So this is what I am saying: She wasn't forced off the team, she left on her own. Was it wrong for Atis to do what he did, absolutely, but did any of the parents do anything about it? Nope so what does that say about them. If one parent had the bravery to stand up to this guy, I bet you she stays on the team but since nobody had the balls to do it, she interpreted that as everyone agreed. So in a way, I feel bad for her but not in the way most of you do.

Oh and for the people who say what would I do if this would happen to my kid, very simple. I call the guy out and ask him who he is, and tell him if he has anything to say, to say it my face and when he does, he gets a free black eye. If my kid find out, I tell him straight up not everyone in life is going to like you and some will talk bad about you. You ignore them and do what you wish and have fun because if they focus on you, they either jealous or you're doing something right. Thats the way I was brought up and I am proud of it.

PS - This is for all the people who say why can't girls play with guys if they are better etc etc. I agree, I don't care if girls play with guys, hell I played with a girl on my HS team and she was good, better than me and I didn't care at all, she played liked one of us. But in theory, if you are going to elect that girls can play on guys teams then you must also agree that boys can play on girls teams if they desire, its only fair. You cannot discriminate one sex but favor another. Thats why if there is a female team for the same sport, then girls have to play on the girls team but if there is no girls team, then let em play with the boys.

Fair post but I can't agree with the bolded. If a girl is good enough to play above the level of the local girls team then it is unfair to hold her back from trying out for a higher level even if that takes a boys spot on the team.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Atis=DBag

Apparently not a very bright one either as he did not see all this coming.

 

[Jimmy Carter]

Haven't been in this section of HF in a bit, but I saw this story last week. Complete B.S., if the dude in question wasn't a lawyer I'm sure someone would have punched him in the face. Completely classless on his part. Probably one of these ****** that thinks his kid is the next Ovechkin or Crosby and *****es his way into getting his kid more ice time. What an awful feeling for that poor girl to have to endure too. This kind of thing just shouldn't happen.