OT - Charles Barkley slams agents and predicts Superteams will lead to NBA lockout

[Fenway]

The NHL looks tame compared to where the NBA is headed.

The outspoken TNT commentator and Hall of Famer didn’t mince words in a blistering critique of the league’s lack of competitive balance, slamming agents for their role in steering players to Superteams and even predicting future labor strife.

“I hear all these clowns on television talking about how it’s great that all these players are exerting their power,” Barkley told a small group of reporters at The Underground, a small music club. “Workers ain’t never going to have power over their ownership. Ever. It might work for a couple guys here or there, but in the history of the world, no workers have ever overtaken the people who own a business. When these guys are sitting home locked out in a couple years, I want you to remember I told y’all that.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...lockout/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ca6984e6178e

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[BigZ65]

A league where 90% of the teams have no hope at present and no hope for years ahead is terrible business.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

A league where 90% of the teams have no hope at present and no hope for years ahead is terrible business.

It's kind of similar to the MLB. The NHL and NFL has done a pretty good job of ensuring parity.

 

[BigZ65]

It's kind of similar to the MLB. The NHL and NFL has done a pretty good job of ensuring parity.

Ya MLB is at least a decent experience to watch, but a damn long season. Maybe hard for hardcore fans when their team sucks, but you can easily attend a ball game and be entertained regardless of who is playing, either team could win. If you're a fan of most NBA teams and a top 5 team comes to town you know your team is getting pumped by 20 points unless that team is sitting guys.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

One player can make so much more of an impact in basketball than in hockey. Not to mention only the best prospects really start “playing to expectations” at age 19-20. Most young players in the nba start hitting there stride around 22-23. Thus it’s harder to go from a bottom dweller to a playoff team right away. Once you find those 2-3 gems you are golden in the NBA. Example is the warriors who haven’t had a quality draft pick since Draymond green almost 7 years ago!!!! Combine that with the fact that the Nba is the most player driven league in sports history and there ya go. Players and their agents have so much power. Super teams will never be stopped in the NBA and they will very likely never happen in the Nhl.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

It's kind of similar to the MLB. The NHL and NFL has done a pretty good job of ensuring parity.

MLB has done good job on parity. Astros won their first WS in 2017. Cubs broke their 100 year drought in 2016. Royals broke their 30 year WS championship drought in 2015, the 2010 Giants won their first in the Bay area. There is only a 5 teams without a WS championship: Rangers, Rays, Brewers, Padres & Mariners. Xpansion teams that won it in MLB: Marlins won it in 1997 a few years after joining, the Dbacks won it in 2001 after just 3 years in the league.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

MLB has done good job on parity. Astros won their first WS in 2017. Cubs broke their 100 year drought in 2016. Royals broke their 30 year WS championship drought in 2015, the 2010 Giants won their first in the Bay area. There is only a 5 teams without a WS championship: Rangers, Rays, Brewers, Padres & Mariners. Xpansion teams that won it in MLB: Marlins won it in 1997 a few years after joining, the Dbacks won it in 2001 after just 3 years in the league.

Im not a huge baseball guy so this may be a dumb question but how much can 1 superstar player change the dynamic of a team.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

A league where 90% of the teams have no hope at present and no hope for years ahead is terrible business.

This isn't entirely true. Warriors run can't last forever, and once it ends the league will be more competitive than ever.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Im not a huge baseball guy so this may be a dumb question but how much can 1 superstar player change the dynamic of a team.

Not as much as Hockey. Best player in the game McDavid does more for the Oilers than Mike Trout best player in MLB does for the Angels.
In the NHL, McDavid can carry a line by himself even if his linemates were to be AHL fodder.

The problem with MLB superstars is that if they are on a mediocre team like Trout on the Angels, other teams can avoid pitching to him by either giving them nothing good to hit or walking them intentionally. So Mike Trout despite being super valuable on his team, his impact would be even greater if they had better players around him so teams don't so easily pitch around him or intentionally walk him. He had the most walks in the majors as a result.

 

[Kimi]

Im not a huge baseball guy so this may be a dumb question but how much can 1 superstar player change the dynamic of a team.

One star in baseball does very little to a teams overall record.

There's a stat call WAR, Wins Above Replacement. It tries to measure how many more games a team wins with said play over a theoretical replacement level player. A replacement level player basically being the baseball equivalent of a career AHL or waiver pick up tier guy (so a AAA+ player). A team of replacement level players would win ~50 games in a MLB season.

A replacement player gives 0 WAR
An average MLB player gives about 2 WAR
An average star will give about 5 WAR
Superstars give about 7+ WAR

And that's over an entire 162 game season. So going from an average player to a star player really don't do much at all. Even going from a replacement player to a star player don't give you a season changing effect.


Even Mike Trout, who may be the best player of all time and consistently has an absurd 10 WAR each season, won't carry a team. It's absolutely insane how good he is, potential best of all time isn't an exaggeration in the slightest, but his team will only win 8ish more with him playing instead of an average MLB level centre fielder.

Compared to the NBA, where stars will easily carry their teams deep into the playoffs every season, baseball really is a very team dependant game.


I know basketball has a similar stat to WAR, but I've not followed basketball in depth at all so I've no idea how to read the numbers. But there was an article from a few years ago that tried to build a baseball player that would have the same impact as LeBron. They would need to have a value of 40+ WAR, which is hilariously impossible^^.

 

[LeHab]

Im not a huge baseball guy so this may be a dumb question but how much can 1 superstar player change the dynamic of a team.

Highest paid players are starting pitchers. An ace pitcher can be a huge difference in a single game. Unfortunately only one start every 5 or so days. Great for an eliminator game but overall impact over a season is still a lot less than an NBA superstar.

Also starting pitchers pitch less and less innings which will likely mean lower impact/salaries going forward.

As for NBA parity, league relies more on international and national viewership unlike other leagues. Those non-local fans will not have as much loyalty to a single team so I think parity is not as important but still something to promote in a franchise model. GSW may be pushing this to a new level but it is not like there were no superteams in recent years.

Soccer with relegation heavily skews towards superteams but they don't have a franchise model. In Italy lowest spending team will spend only about 1/20 of what the top team spends on players. Good luck competing.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Highest paid players are starting pitchers. An ace pitcher can be a huge difference in a single game. Unfortunately only one start every 5 or so days. Great for an eliminator game but overall impact over a season is still a lot less than an NBA superstar.

Also starting pitchers pitch less and less innings which will likely mean lower impact/salaries going forward.

As for NBA parity, league relies more on international and national viewership unlike other leagues. Those non-local fans will not have as much loyalty to a single team so I think parity is not as important but still something to promote in a franchise model. GSW may be pushing this to a new level but it is not like there were no superteams in recent years.

Soccer with relegation heavily skews towards superteams but they don't have a franchise model. In Italy lowest spending team will spend only about 1/20 of what the top team spends on players. Good luck competing.

Yeah than you get miracles like Leicester city. Thanks all you guys for info about baseball league! So let’s say an MLB team purposely tries to lose all games so that they can win the top draft pick for 3-4 years in a row. They most likely won’t be able to turn the franchise around within 1-2 years after, like the philly 76ers in basketball? The NBA has definitely become an arms race in the past few years where it seems like you have very smart GMs (Warriors, Nuggets, Bucks) and than complete idiots (Phoenix, Knicks, Nets).

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Highest paid players are starting pitchers. An ace pitcher can be a huge difference in a single game. Unfortunately only one start every 5 or so days. Great for an eliminator game but overall impact over a season is still a lot less than an NBA superstar.

Also starting pitchers pitch less and less innings which will likely mean lower impact/salaries going forward.

As for NBA parity, league relies more on international and national viewership unlike other leagues. Those non-local fans will not have as much loyalty to a single team so I think parity is not as important but still something to promote in a franchise model. GSW may be pushing this to a new level but it is not like there were no superteams in recent years.

Soccer with relegation heavily skews towards superteams but they don't have a franchise model. In Italy lowest spending team will spend only about 1/20 of what the top team spends on players. Good luck competing.

Yeah than you get miracles like Leicester city. Thanks all you guys for info about baseball league! So let’s say an MLB team purposely tries to lose all games so that they can win the top draft pick for 3-4 years in a row. They most likely won’t be able to turn the franchise around within 1-2 years after, like the philly 76ers in basketball? The NBA has definitely become an arms race in the past few years where it seems like you have very smart GMs (Warriors, Nuggets, Bucks) and than complete idiots (Phoenix, Knicks, Nets).

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

Highest paid players are starting pitchers. An ace pitcher can be a huge difference in a single game. Unfortunately only one start every 5 or so days. Great for an eliminator game but overall impact over a season is still a lot less than an NBA superstar.

Also starting pitchers pitch less and less innings which will likely mean lower impact/salaries going forward.

As for NBA parity, league relies more on international and national viewership unlike other leagues. Those non-local fans will not have as much loyalty to a single team so I think parity is not as important but still something to promote in a franchise model. GSW may be pushing this to a new level but it is not like there were no superteams in recent years.

Soccer with relegation heavily skews towards superteams but they don't have a franchise model. In Italy lowest spending team will spend only about 1/20 of what the top team spends on players. Good luck competing.

Yeah than you get miracles like Leicester city. Thanks all you guys for info about baseball league! So let’s say an MLB team purposely tries to lose all games so that they can win the top draft pick for 3-4 years in a row. They most likely won’t be able to turn the franchise around within 1-2 years after, like the philly 76ers in basketball? The NBA has definitely become an arms race in the past few years where it seems like you have very smart GMs (Warriors, Nuggets, Bucks) and than complete idiots (Phoenix, Knicks, Nets).

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Yeah than you get miracles like Leicester city. Thanks all you guys for info about baseball league! So let’s say an MLB team purposely tries to lose all games so that they can win the top draft pick for 3-4 years in a row. They most likely won’t be able to turn the franchise around within 1-2 years after, like the philly 76ers in basketball? The NBA has definitely become an arms race in the past few years where it seems like you have very smart GMs (Warriors, Nuggets, Bucks) and than complete idiots (Phoenix, Knicks, Nets).

MLB draft is an ultimate crapshoot. You can't risk losing season ticket holders for that.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Decoding Anthony Davis' awkward, head-scratching All-Star Media Day
people think LeBron James is manipulating players and gm's tough rich paul if the top pick in the draft pulls a Kobe byrant and refuses to play for anyone but the Lakers they could be proven right
LeBron James and Agent Rich Paul Deny That They Attended Duke Game For Recruiting Purposes

 

[Ahoy there]

Im not a huge baseball guy so this may be a dumb question but how much can 1 superstar player change the dynamic of a team.

That question could open pandora's box for baseball purists and the love for stats. Simple answer: no where near the impact as in other sports. Think of it this way - MLB player gets 4, maybe 5 at bats per game to make an offensive difference, and a smaller amount of opportunities to make a difference on the defensive side (key being difference, not routine plays any MLBer should make.)

Hockey? Winger's getting in the 18-21ish minutes per. Basketball? Top guys get 40+ min per game. I guess what I'm saying is the games are completely different. The ball isn't in the "hands" of the baseball player anywhere close to the same amount of time that the hockey player has the puck or the basketball player the ball.

 

[S E P H]

This isn't entirely true. Warriors run can't last forever, and once it ends the league will be more competitive than ever.

True, but it happens in generations for different clubs. You need a foundation, but once it is there players will flock for your organization as it did with the Bulls in the 90s, Lakers in the 2000s, Heat the 2010s, and now the Warriors. Super teams will always exist because that's the way basketball is as a sport.

 

[Outofbodyinhungary]

True, but it happens in generations for different clubs. You need a foundation, but once it is there players will flock for your organization as it did with the Bulls in the 90s, Lakers in the 2000s, Heat the 2010s, and now the Warriors. Super teams will always exist because that's the way basketball is as a sport.

You also got to look at the legacy. I’m betting some young guys that enter free agency in a couple years will want to play with arguably the greates shooter of all time. Speaking of super teams is mark cuban attempting to create a Euro superteam in Dallas

 

[oknazevad]

MLB draft is an ultimate crapshoot. You can't risk losing season ticket holders for that.

Absolutely. Unlike the NHL, drafted players in baseball never go straight to the majors, even if they skip a couple of lower levels in the minors.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

MLB draft is an ultimate crapshoot. You can't risk losing season ticket holders for that.

You absolutely can. It's still by far the best way to rebuild.

 

[CTHabsfan]

You absolutely can. It's still by far the best way to rebuild.

You can, however it's not going to be anywhere close to as quick a turnaround as in the NBA.

 

[oknazevad]

You absolutely can. It's still by far the best way to rebuild.

Yeah, but it takes significantly longer in MLB than in other sports because of the minor league system, which winnows out bust draft picks before they get to the majors.

 

[HairyCanary]

A league where 90% of the teams have no hope at present and no hope for years ahead is terrible business.

Same can be said about the NFL, to the point they're actually encouraging it (i.e. screwing over New Orleans).

I think this is more of a problem than most sports fans are willing to admit.

 

[HairyCanary]

Yeah than you get miracles like Leicester city.

"Miracles"

Yeah, and they went right back to just being there like every other club outside of the only few who actually have a chance at doing anything like Liverpool and Manchester United.

Parity in soccer is practically extinct at this point, and it's only going to get worse once the clubs responsible form their own league like they keep hinting at.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

True, but it happens in generations for different clubs. You need a foundation, but once it is there players will flock for your organization as it did with the Bulls in the 90s, Lakers in the 2000s, Heat the 2010s, and now the Warriors. Super teams will always exist because that's the way basketball is as a sport.

it’s difficult for some markets even with a foundation Milwaukee has a new arena and a top 5 player and most nba players don’t want to go there because of snow