OT: Canadian Pro Soccer League

[DoyleG]

Agreed, MLS had to change their business model but there plans were not shutterd after hosting the World Cup.

Smaller stadiums will be needed. I'd say 5-7K like the one going up in Halifax .
https://www.localxpress.ca/local-sp...f-halifax-pro-soccer-plan-gets-a-boost-608280

The ones in the larger stadiums, if they are under the same umbrella as their CFL counterparts having access to the stadium revenues and playing in lower bowl set ups.(Hamilton, Winnipeg and Ottawa in the USL), it will work. Not much different than New England in MLS

The problem with the skeptics has been that they seem far too enamored with MLS and think that will kill any prospect.

Sadly, they are wrong on that account as the league proposals never died out.

What has pushed this has been the unwillingness of MLS supporters to insist that the clubs play a role in improving the national team and getting it to a World Cup. They have done nothing but fail as they have had well over a decade to make an impact. That impact has been more of the negative variety.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

The problem with the skeptics has been that they seem far too enamored with MLS and think that will kill any prospect.

Sadly, they are wrong on that account as the league proposals never died out.

What has pushed this has been the unwillingness of MLS supporters to insist that the clubs play a role in improving the national team and getting it to a World Cup. They have done nothing but fail as they have had well over a decade to make an impact. That impact has been more of the negative variety.

Why would the proposals have died out? CONCACAF needs the league to brownnose FIFA to approve their taxpayer-fueled party, who cares if the actual viability of said league the day after the bid is approved makes zero sense? It's the means to their end, MLS doesn't factor one way or the other in that regard.

 

[DoyleG]

Why would the proposals have died out? CONCACAF needs the league to brownnose FIFA to approve their taxpayer-fueled party, who cares if the actual viability of said league the day after the bid is approved makes zero sense? It's the means to their end, MLS doesn't factor one way or the other in that regard.

Try actually posting something rather than this delusional rant.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Try actually posting something rather than this delusional rant.

So the constant talk for years about Canada needing a league as an essential component for a WC bid is suddenly pure fantasy now? There's nothing 'delusional' about the thoroughly-reported and disgustingly-corrupt manner in which FIFA conducts it's business.

 

[DoyleG]

So the constant talk for years about Canada needing a league as an essential component for a WC bid is suddenly pure fantasy now? There's nothing 'delusional' about the thoroughly-reported and disgustingly-corrupt manner in which FIFA conducts it's business.

Based on this, you clearly came to this thread without any real argument.

Try Again.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Based on this, you clearly came to this thread without any real argument.

Try Again.

And what exactly is your argument? All you did was ***** out MLS fans for following a product with a reasonable quality of play.

You really want me to start dumping sources about the scummy practices of the people you want to get in bed with? Because there's a hell of a lot more concrete information to that compared to whatever point you're trying to make.

 

[Mightygoose]

So the constant talk for years about Canada needing a league as an essential component for a WC bid is suddenly pure fantasy now? There's nothing 'delusional' about the thoroughly-reported and disgustingly-corrupt manner in which FIFA conducts it's business.

It's not just for the World Cup bid...which is actually a small piece overall.

The league is being created as a place for Canadian players to play compeptive soccer so the men's national team can build some depth and who knows, get their ranking back into double digits.

Otherwise, Canadian players have to play in other foreign leagues which all have their own minimum number of domestic players so they need to compete with the limited number of international spots.

 

[DoyleG]

It's not just for the World Cup bid...which is actually a small piece overall.

The league is being created as a place for Canadian players to play compeptive soccer so the men's national team can build some depth and who knows, get their ranking back into double digits.

Otherwise, Canadian players have to play in other foreign leagues which all have their own minimum number of domestic players so they need to compete with the limited number of international spots.

Along with the fact that MLS still has an anti-Canadian attitude towards players.

 

[AngryScotsman]

Along with the fact that MLS still has an anti-Canadian attitude towards players.

Care to elaborate?

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Along with the fact that MLS still has an anti-Canadian attitude towards players.

International spots are tradable and are passed around among MLS teams like candy. There's nothing stopping a Canadian of sufficient talent from playing in MLS, enough of this. This doesn't even get into the academy programs of Canadian MLS teams either.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

A national league in a country the size of Canada without a corresponding huge population is a considerable undertaking with many challenges.

There's many very bad national leagues around the world with amateur outfits competing at a level below the lower leagues in the major nations. A national league doesn't have to offer great football or be on TV or work economically. But then those countries for the most part are small. It's not a big deal to send a bunch of amateurs on a bus to a town 80 miles away to play one game a week.

In Canada, you've got to send guys on road trips to places at the other end of the continent. How much would travel cost a club for a season? What are the revenue streams? Who would be the guys actually playing in this league as presumably players of any promise would quickly either move into the U.S. system or move overseas?

 

[DoyleG]

A national league in a country the size of Canada without a corresponding huge population is a considerable undertaking with many challenges.

There's many very bad national leagues around the world with amateur outfits competing at a level below the lower leagues in the major nations. A national league doesn't have to offer great football or be on TV or work economically. But then those countries for the most part are small. It's not a big deal to send a bunch of amateurs on a bus to a town 80 miles away to play one game a week.

In Canada, you've got to send guys on road trips to places at the other end of the continent. How much would travel cost a club for a season? What are the revenue streams? Who would be the guys actually playing in this league as presumably players of any promise would quickly either move into the U.S. system or move overseas?

The US system is essentially closed to Canadian players based on their nationality. It no secret that people joke that Toronto FC has been a boon for the US National Team, while the Canadian national team has been shunted to the side.

Players moving onto other leagues isn't an isssue. This happened during the CSL days when players moved overseas, yet that league helped produced the talent in Canada's last era of soccer success. It isn't hard to see that the lack of a national league has played a major role in the decline of Canada's players, along with the fact that the EU has been closing off points of entry for players.

The travel excuse has always been a myth promoted by those with their own self-interests.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Are there provincial leagues in all the provinces?

 

[DoyleG]

Are there provincial leagues in all the provinces?

They do exist and compete for a national title at the end of the season (Challenge Cup).

 

[Rocko604]

Care to elaborate?

Because in a league that has both Canadian and American teams, Canadian players take up international spots on American teams.

 

[Hoek]

The reason Canadian players don't count as domestic on American teams is legality, if you believe the MLS commissioner.

http://sbisoccer.com/2017/02/garber-nasls-canadian-domestic-rule-a-violation-of-u-s-law

“It’s a violation of U.S. law,” said Garber at a media roundtable in Vancouver. “We’ve looked at this issue since we launched teams up here in Canada.”

“In the years to come it’s going to be a non-issue, but U.S. law is such that we cannot discriminate against one nationality and give certain employment opportunities to Canadians that we don’t provide to Hondurans and Brazilians and representatives of any other nationality,” he said. “I’m mindful of its impact on how people view it up here.”

 

[DoyleG]

The reason Canadian players don't count as domestic on American teams is legality, if you believe the MLS commissioner.

http://sbisoccer.com/2017/02/garber-nasls-canadian-domestic-rule-a-violation-of-u-s-law

Which only tends to show the pettiness of MLS Execs. USL and NASL have adopted Canadians and Americans as domestics, so it actually comes down to how good a player is rather than focusing on nationality.

 

[Mightygoose]

The reason Canadian players don't count as domestic on American teams is legality, if you believe the MLS commissioner.

http://sbisoccer.com/2017/02/garber-nasls-canadian-domestic-rule-a-violation-of-u-s-law

And this is the number one reason why the CPL is being created.

Domestic players would only apply for Canadians which will get more of them playing compeptive soccer. Maybe they'll be able to make it back to the hex one day. Zero chance with the current system.

 

[Zippy316]

I just don't understand how this works logistically.

With the biggest markets tiedd up in MLS, USL, and NASL leagues, how can you justify having teams across continents. They'd likely have to have divisions of teams that hardly play outside of their region to justify it (similar to how the AHL does their scheduling). Have four-six teams in Ontario/Quebec and four-six teams across Western Canada.

Plus the infrastructure has to be in place as I doubt it would be feasible to build a stadium for a team in a new league like this, especially from the get go.

 

[Hoek]

Which only tends to show the pettiness of MLS Execs. USL and NASL have adopted Canadians and Americans as domestics, so it actually comes down to how good a player is rather than focusing on nationality.

Well NASL has always been a bit... shady on the legal side. USL on the other hand, I don't know. Perhaps they don't feel as big of a target.

 

[jason2020]

A national league in a country the size of Canada without a corresponding huge population is a considerable undertaking with many challenges.

There's many very bad national leagues around the world with amateur outfits competing at a level below the lower leagues in the major nations. A national league doesn't have to offer great football or be on TV or work economically. But then those countries for the most part are small. It's not a big deal to send a bunch of amateurs on a bus to a town 80 miles away to play one game a week.

In Canada, you've got to send guys on road trips to places at the other end of the continent. How much would travel cost a club for a season? What are the revenue streams? Who would be the guys actually playing in this league as presumably players of any promise would quickly either move into the U.S. system or move overseas?

League 1 Ontario has 16 teams from Ottawa to Windsor for teams travel is some what of a issue now as teams don't get many fans and people will say a Canadian league would be different fact is I am not sure if it would be.

 

[cutchemist42]

Quick thoughts:

-As a Winnipegger, I have my doubts it will work. It will look incredibly cheesy in IGF with 3000ish people in there.

-If every league were to start up again in NA, how many would use the single-entity structure?

- I think its going to be weird having a league where the top 3 cities in Canada wont be involved. I mean, people on this baord already gripe about the CFL, but at least some of the appeal is that the rules are different from other football on tv and its not a farm league. This wont be a farm league, but its really going to stand out as being 2nd tier when MLS is already easily available on tv, playing the exact same sport.

-I hope we avoid the faux-Euro names, and dont use FC. Its fine for a sport to be called by different names, no problem using soccer club when two other forms of football are more popular in this country and "own" the nomenclature.

 

[jason2020]

Quick thoughts:

-As a Winnipegger, I have my doubts it will work. It will look incredibly cheesy in IGF with 3000ish people in there.

-If every league were to start up again in NA, how many would use the single-entity structure?

- I think its going to be weird having a league where the top 3 cities in Canada wont be involved. I mean, people on this baord already gripe about the CFL, but at least some of the appeal is that the rules are different from other football on tv and its not a farm league. This wont be a farm league, but its really going to stand out as being 2nd tier when MLS is already easily available on tv, playing the exact same sport.

-I hope we avoid the faux-Euro names, and dont use FC. Its fine for a sport to be called by different names, no problem using soccer club when two other forms of football are more popular in this country and "own" the nomenclature.

Not just the top 3 but Ottawa and Edmonton likely would not be part of it as well.

 

[htpwn]

So the constant talk for years about Canada needing a league as an essential component for a WC bid is suddenly pure fantasy now? There's nothing 'delusional' about the thoroughly-reported and disgustingly-corrupt manner in which FIFA conducts it's business.

Based on what, exactly? Why would Bob Young -- owner of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats and founding partner of this new league -- want to put his money into a soccer team destined to fold in a decade because it is merely a front to meet a FIFA checklist? Your argument makes no sense.

I, for one, am taking the optimistic view. You don't need 30,000+ people in a stadium to make a professional sports league work. Look no further than junior hockey, the ECHL, or even the AHL. Only 1/3 of AHL teams average more than 7,000 fans per game and no team averages more than 10,000. In the ECHL, no team averages more than 7,500 and most teams are in the ~4,000 range. Both leagues are fully professional, face similar geographical/travel challenges, and yet manage to stick around. Is it really far fetched for a soccer team in Hamilton or Winnipeg to draw 5,000 fans a game in cities of 800,000? It might be a tough sell to capture the interest of the casual fan but that's not what they need. They just need a small, dedicated fan base and fortunately for them, the culture of soccer may provide just that. Many people who follow the game don't care about the level, they'll support their local club. That's how it works in Europe and with promotion/relegation, the idea of a 'minor league' does not carry the same stigma. Especially when it potentially means facing off against MLS teams in the Canadian Championship.

Key to success will be owners like Bob Young, passionate individuals willing to take a small annual loss or are able to subsidize it via their other holdings (in Young's case, the Tiger-Cats) until such time as it is sustainable. That is in part why Toronto FC was such a success, after all. MLSE was able to throw their financial weight behind the team in a way other owners would not be able to. Again, I'm optimistic about this. If done right, I think it could work. If done right. It would be huge for Canadian soccer. We have always had no shortage of recreational soccer players especially at the youth level. Our problem has always been developing players to that next level and this league can hopefully help do that.

 

[jason2020]

Htpwn

I am worried about Hamilton not so much about what attendance would be like good or bad but ownership commitment you pick a Canadian league over the Usl or Nasl seems strange.