Oskar Sundqvist is on pace for 20 goals. Is the Ryan Reaves trade JR’s worst?

Rutherford’s Worst Trade


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    114

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,282
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Well, yes, trade evaluations shouldn't involve HINDSIGHT. My point posting above was that this thread is premised on HINDSIGHT and IF that's the standard, then the Brassard and Reaves deals were worse.

I believe trade evaluations should involve hindsight, but I don't think what you use cleared cap for, or whatever someone else uses the pick on, should be considered part of the trade.

Although if we are including the use of the pick in hindsight the fact we don't have Barzal should probably win and win hard.
 

BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
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Confused the years. Was thinking 2016 going into the playoffs in 2017. Clearly you were referencing the prior season, 2015-2016, when LA acquired impending UFA Lucic and Jake was JUST an AHL prospect. In THAT scenario, it's a BETTER price then than Rust for Ferland is NOW.

Of course, that's the beauty of hindsight . . . it's ALWAYS 20/20.

Actually, he was still in college in 15-16.

Edit...Except for the 11 games...forgot that.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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Stop with this revisionist history, Reaves was anything but fine here. He was terrible for all but a handful of games and just about everyone on this forum wanted him gone. Had he played like he is playing in Vegas he would still be here, period.

Sheahan and Reaves on a line together worked. He wasn't used correctly. He was a decent 4th liner in St.Louis and then was back to being just that in Vegas. His stint here didn't work because of his usage. He looked good with Sheahan, but wasn't kept there and was benched instead.
 
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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
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Big shout out to the Sheary votes because that is an underrated bad trade.
Sheary was useless in the playoffs. 6 goals in 57 games. He disappeared when it mattered. The votes are unwarranted. Hunwick was bad too.

The team needed the cap space for useful players, so it was a good move. The fact that they used the extra $ unwisely is another matter.

The Pettersson trade has no place on this list either. He's been a solid acquisition. He strengthened our weakest area in exchange for a player who was never going to succeed here anyway.
 
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PensPlz

Registered User
Dec 23, 2009
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Reaves is also having a good seasons he knocked Tom Wilson the f*** out.

He just wasn't Sullivan fit.

And why would anyone still be harping on the Despres trade? Lovejoy was solid in the playoffs. Played some hard minutes for us, minutes that I wouldn't have wanted to see Despres out there playing. So not mad about that trade even if Despres was the "better player".

But a 1st for Perron.... Ughhhhh. Brutal.
 
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BigEezyE22

Continuing to not support HF.
Feb 2, 2007
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Reaves is also having a good seasons he knocked Tom Wilson the **** out.

He just wasn't Sullivan fit.

And why would anyone still be harping on the Despres trade? Lovejoy was solid in the playoffs. Played some hard minutes for us, minutes that I wouldn't have wanted to see Despres out there playing. So not mad about that trade even if Despres was the "better player".

But a 1st for Perron.... Ughhhhh. Brutal.

Despres wound up being leaned on heavily by Anaheim in their run in '15.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDo

Registered User
Aug 3, 2014
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The thing about the Brassard trade is that we don't know how it ends. If we get something nice like a Coyle or Muzzin out of it then it worked out better than it has to this point.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
34,231
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1st for Perron was bad, but it did end up getting us Hags.. so...

I can’t see how people would think a trade is bad if it helped win a cup.

Pens got Perron who was turned into Hags, who was instrumental in the 16 cup run, and he was converted to Pearson, who is a young guy under a good contract.

So that original first is still paying dividends. Unlike the first used to acquire say, Iginla. Now that’s an example of a bad trade.

why? you answered right after that fatty was the better player. and it wasn't even close. imo

People always praise the Tocchet trade as one of the best in Pens history, but the root of the deal saw them give up a young future Hall of Fame player in Recchi for a couple years of Tocchet.

It could easily be argued they could have won with Recchi and Coffey, seeing as how they did the year before.

I think in hindsight that was a worse deal than giving up Despres for Lovejoy, but both deals lead to cups, so it’s hard to argue agt them.
 
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pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,591
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I could go either way with judging a trade with or without hindsight, but I don't think you should use the chain reaction of events that happened after that. They traded a first for Perron. They traded Sheary+Hunwick for cap space. They traded a boat load for Brassard. It doesn't matter they traded Perron for Hags. It doesn't matter how they used the cap savings from Sheary+Hunwick. It doesn't matter what they will trade Brassard for. You've got to draw the line somewhere or you're going to go around in circles forever. There will always be a "they did X because of Y".
 
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madinsomniac

Registered User
Jul 3, 2012
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Its hard to say this early after some of these are made....

Perron was a failed attempt to replace neal in the lineup, but as an asset he got hagelin here and that ultimately played a huge role in the back to back cups....

Lovejoy was really out of place that first year and a big part of why we lost in the postseason, but he gelled the second year and was ok. This would be worse if Despres continued his upward swing and didn’t concuss his way out of the league, but as it is it returned a player that played a solid role in getting us a cup

Losing Sheary to get Hunwick off the team and open cap space is kind of neutral... it doesn’t help with whom the space was used on, but it wasn’t a bad trade per se

Sprong for Pettersson won’t be able to be judged for a bit yet... Sprong may be the better player long term but Pettersson looks like he was the type of player we needed this season.... potential for need is a necessary trade off sometimes... as with the Despres trade it looks better or worse when longterm results are factored in

Reaves was an overpayment for a player that didn’t fit the coaches plans and who was brutally misused here.... but then he was used as a piece to get Brass who was equally miscast and came with a much higher pricetag
 

Mr Jiggyfly

Registered User
Jan 29, 2004
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I could go either way with judging a trade with or without hindsight, but I don't think you should use the chain reaction of events that happened after that. They traded a first for Perron. They traded Sheary+Hunwick for cap space. They traded a boat load for Brassard. It doesn't matter they traded Perron for Hags. It doesn't matter how they used the cap savings from Sheary+Hunwick. It doesn't matter what they will trade Brassard for. You've got to draw the line somewhere or you're going to go around in circles forever. There will always be a "they did X because of Y".

I’m not sure how you can ignore the chain reaction of events though.

The best way to judge a trade is hindsight and understanding exactly how long the initial trade paid dividends.

The Perron trade yielded an asset that played a major role in a cup, and is still paying dividends.

The Morrow for Morrow trade seemed like a bust, but it yielded a major asset for a cup run.

Lots of people don’t know the guy some are lusting after, Dzingel, was drafted with the 7th round pick the Pens gave Ott for Kovy. Does that make it a bad trade for the Pens? I’d say no, others would argue yes.
 

ziggyjoe212

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
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Big shout out to the Sheary votes because that is an underrated bad trade.
How so? It was a salary dump and a very successful one. It made sense at the time and it still makes sense.

I voted for the Brassard trade as the worst one. JR gave up more for Brassard than for Kessel.

Reaves is probably #2, only because Klim Kostin was available with our pick and we could really use some quality in the farm.
 

Coach Travis

Back2Back!!!
Jun 29, 2005
15,200
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Sundqvist skates like his feet are cement.
His shooting is at over 16%.
That's something that's definitely gonna regress.
It wasn't a good trade but certainly not a mess.
We used Reaves to get Brass for a Cup.
No reason to assume that move would go tits up.
The thing I like about JR is he will correct a wrong.
And his track record, while not perfect, is still pretty strong.
 
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billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
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I don't agree at all that Sundqvist "showed nothing" in his time prior to playing on St Louis. He wasn't scoring in his NHL time just prior to the trade, but to say that he "never" looked impressive in a Pens uniform is revisionism. There were plenty of times when Sundqvist showed promise.

That said, Sundqvist for Reaves is not nearly as "bad" as somewhere between 2 and 4 of these trades. Also worth mentioning that Reaves is on pace for 14 or 15 goals and is a plus player this year.
 
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Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,618
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I don't agree at all that Sundqvist "showed nothing" in his time prior to playing on St Louis. He wasn't scoring in his NHL time just prior to the trade, but to say that he "never" looked impressive in a Pens uniform is revisionism. There were plenty of times when Sundqvist showed promise.

That said, Sundqvist for Reaves is not nearly as "bad" as somewhere between 2 and 4 of these trades. Also worth mentioning that Reaves is on pace for 14 or 15 goals and is a plus player this year.

Agreed. Sundqvist wasn't scoring but the kid at the time didn't really look out of place to be honest and was still young and promising
If we keep Sundqvist, I don't think JR trades for Sheahan last year and saves those assets on top of that
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,282
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I don't agree at all that Sundqvist "showed nothing" in his time prior to playing on St Louis. He wasn't scoring in his NHL time just prior to the trade, but to say that he "never" looked impressive in a Pens uniform is revisionism. There were plenty of times when Sundqvist showed promise.

That said, Sundqvist for Reaves is not nearly as "bad" as somewhere between 2 and 4 of these trades. Also worth mentioning that Reaves is on pace for 14 or 15 goals and is a plus player this year.

He looked solid in 15-16, but in 16-17 he was a slow skating ghost. I'll grant that it's a small sample, but based on the sample he was just not a guy for our system.
 

UnrealMachine

Registered User
Jul 9, 2012
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He looked solid in 15-16, but in 16-17 he was a slow skating ghost. I'll grant that it's a small sample, but based on the sample he was just not a guy for our system.

From what I remember he was having a great 16-17 season in the AHL and then was hurt before eventually getting called up. His poor NHL play that season was likely related to that and being paired with the bottom of the barrel linemates at the time. It was certainly a let down (stats + eye test) compared to how he looked in his 1st season and his WBS campaign prior to the 16-17 call-up. Either way I thought it was a mistake at the time to trade him so soon.
 
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