Speculation: Oshie factor?

[Stupendous Yappi]

According to some, ... how many trades has he made here? All of those, except perhaps one, the Miller trade - and even that he still gets at least 3/4 credit for because ... the grandeur that continues to be Steve Ott.

Honestly, I'm not sure we needed to move anyone. We needed stability in net. We needed confidence in the team from above. DA wasn't willing to give any of that because he was so fixated on being declared right, being called the smartest guy in the room, that he wasn't about to let anyone tell him he was wrong.


Well, yes - for that season, he can claim that. Longer term? Last year, 2 guys dealt away by DA were going to win the Cup; if it hadn't been Oshie and Eller, it was going to be Reaves and Perron. Cole was on the two years prior for Pittsburgh. [And Eller getting traded, I get at the time - so I'll ignore him for the rest of this.]

But ... we've got a 3rd-pairing defenseman who's defensively reliable for the 55-60 games he's healthy, a highly skilled forward still working on getting his act together in the AHL, Barbashev [who ... is he a top-6 guy? A bottom-6 guy? Both? Neither?], and a 2016 WCF appearance that we blew with home ice advantage [after nearly blowing both prior series with a 3-1 lead and Game 5 at home, and a 3-2 lead with Game 6 at home]. And, a team that after 30 games maybe is finally getting its act together - but who really knows. [And who knows what our glorious GM is going to do to "improve" things before the trade deadline.]


I'll put it this way: when Joe Thornton was traded to San Jose, the Bruins got back Marco Sturm, Brad Stuart, and Wayne Primeau. No one in their right mind thinks that JT was "only" worth that in late 2005; however, the Bruins were only talking to a few teams and were relatively desperate to move him and so they took considerably less than what they could have had by putting him on the open market. [And of course, after the fact it was Joe had off-ice issues and then it was we won the Stanley Cup before he did, so it was all worth it and so on - ignoring that nothing the Bruins got in that trade did squat toward pushing the Bruins to the Cup in '11.]

I think people give DA more credit than he deserves. I think DA only talked to a few teams about dealing Oshie, despite his comments to the contrary. I think he was hell-bent on "doing something" and didn't care about actually getting fair value, he was moving a guy out to show everyone I'm really serious when I say I'm making changes and Oshie was the convenient scapegoat, the fans' Abuse Boy, the easy target whose move would satisfy the fan base and gain him support and take away attention from the past 3 years of playoff disappointments and any scrutiny of DA's role in those failures.

Without going through your post in detail, I find myself wondering how much input Hitchcock was giving on player moves. Especially with Cole for Bortuzzo, Polak for Gunnarsson, Oshie for Brouwer. If your coach came to you and said, I think we need more of X, as a GM I think there is probably an obligation to try and get your coach what he needs. Of course, if you don't like what your coach is telling you, or feel that he should be able to win with the pieces you gave him, maybe you start looking for a different coach.

My point is simply that I could absolve Armstrong for some of those moves if he was collaborating with Hitchcock for specific elements he wanted. Its hard to argue that with Brouwer so much, because they didn't make much effort to re-sign him. So maybe Hitchcock had something against Oshie or felt subtracting him was important. I'm talking myself out of this with regard to Oshie.

Its ultimately Armstrong's responsibility.

 

[KingBran]

Another thing that happened during that span was that he became a well-known Olympic hero, even more marketable. I would think that development would outweigh any concerns the team had about something from 5 years before.

I think sometimes as a manager you realize you just need to stir up the pot. Its not that a specific person is at fault, but you know that you aren't making the kind of soup you want, so something has to change. I think Oshie became the designated guy to move, probably based on input from Hitchcock. If there are more incidents, I wish you'd explain what they were, because as a close observer of the team I don't remember anything else.

I think your response to Majority is not congruent with the level way he presented his argument. You're kind of just ignoring his salient points and coming across as emotional about it. No one is insulting you here. But you have repeatedly hinted at something without saying what it was. I'm suspecting maybe you don't actually have any incidents to tell us about.

All I did was write two sentences about his off ice antics being part of the problem the Blues FO saw with him. I didnt offer any opinion on it. Just pointed it out.

Majority quoted me saying that I was suggesting that Oshie was traded soley becuse he was drunk on TV drunk 5 years before they traded him.

That to you is a level presented arguement?

I wasn't even arguing... I was pointing out that the Blues FO was upset with some of his off ice antics. Thats a fact and supported by the fact that the higher ups told the webmaster of the official Blues forum to ban people who talked about it.

To think Oshie being drunk on TV and comments he made to the media about Hitch had absolutely nothing to do with how the FO viewed him as an ambassador of the team would be very obtuse. And to assume nothing else was going on behind closed doors would be even more ignorant.

What I said (and made VERY clear) is not THE reason, but part of the reason they were willing to give up on him given his popularity. Not sure why that is so hard to believe. Which makes me think some of you just want to argue or maybe you want to justify buying your Oshie jersey a few years ago and don't want to believe he did anything wrong.

Then going off about Wookies and Southpark quotes? Yeah, super "level" responses. Sorry but Majority went ape and still hasnt recovered. Pretty sure he is still floating out there in outer space. He is acting like a child quoting South Park on a hockey forum trying to win an internet arguement when no arguement was presented.

 

[Lord Helix]

 

[yogintheaveragebears]

I was going to give my opinion on oshie but decided not to to avoid the "proof " crowd. I unfortunately know to much about him and dags

 

[Majorityof1]

I was going to give my opinion on oshie but decided not to to avoid the "proof " crowd. I unfortunately know to much about him and dags

Yea, what assholes that "proof" crowd are to want solid reasoning rather than baseless speculation. You showed them by merely hinting at things you know rather than actually saying them

 

[Renard]

I was going to give my opinion on oshie but decided not to to avoid the "proof " crowd. I unfortunately know to much about him and dags

Dags?

 

[MissouriMook]

Dags?

I'm guessing he is referring to Matt D'Agostini.

 

[simon IC]

Are we still rehashing the Oshie trade? Seriously, let it go!

 

[Renard]

I'm guessing he is referring to Matt D'Agostini.

I assumed that too, but what about him?

Are we still rehashing the Oshie trade? Seriously, let it go!

I'm still curious about it, especially the Pheonix Copley part.

Armstrong defended the Oshie trade in part because of Copley coming back to the Blues. Armstrong said that the Oshie trade wouldn't have been made without Copley.

A year after we acquired Copley, Elliott signed elsewhere and Jake Allen got a big new contract. And the Blues signed Carter Hutton. What happened to Copley? Why did we think we had to have him, and then not give him his shot?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I assumed that too, but what about him?


I'm still curious about it, especially the Pheonix Copley part.

Armstrong defended the Oshie trade in part because of Copley coming back to the Blues. Armstrong said that the Oshie trade wouldn't have been made without Copley.

A year after we acquired Copley, Elliott signed elsewhere and Jake Allen got a big new contract. And the Blues signed Carter Hutton. What happened to Copley? Why did we think we had to have him, and then not give him his shot?

That was one of the times I thought Armstrong was being disingenuous. Or maybe it was in service to a scout that was really high on Pheonix and proved to be wrong. Another Jerabek move?