Proposal: Orpik to Vancouver

[THE Green Man]

First off I come in peace, I just am curios what specifically Caps fans would be inclined to do in the offseason:

What would the Caps want to do with Orpik- I see him as a good candidate to be moved for cap-flexibility, though not completely necessary. Moving him, would allow more depth to be integrated to the lineup with his 5.5M off the books. Question is what pick would the caps be ok with dropping to move him to Vancouver? A 1st is probably too much but what about a 2nd?

The other alternative I was thinking of would be assuming that Grubauer is moved for a 1st round pick- if there's someone the Canucks really like at the caps pick, would they be open to moving down much like the Red Wings did with Datsyuk? Some thing like:

Caps 1 and Orpik for Canucks 2nd and RFA Granlund?

This way Caps keep the same number of picks just move down, while still getting a pick in the 1st round with the Grabauer trade.

Click to read more...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Wow. For one year....no chance I’d pony up more than a 3rd. He’s showing he’s got value.

 

[THE Green Man]

Wow. For one year....no chance I’d pony up more than a 3rd. He’s showing he’s got value.

Personally I would take that based on us hopefully being able to retain 50% and flip him for a pick somewhere else. For the Canucks using 2.75M to get 2 picks is good use of our cap space.

How do you feel about the trading down option?

 

[Brian23]

Orpik doesn't need a first to be moved. At the very worst we could retain almost 50% on him for one year and probably get something as he's an okay bottom pairing/sheltered defender. That also doesn't take into account that he's an apparently beloved locker room leader.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

You're like 2 years too late with this proposal. He's got a year left, at this point I don't see why we don't run the clock out on him.

I also think it's hilarious you think you're going to then retain 50% on him and flip him, his cap hit will still be like 2.75, you're not moving him at that price unless you're incentivizing it in the same sense that we are supposedly giving up a 1st to get rid of him.


So you think we'll give up a 1st for a guy with 1 year left, who we just toiled with with a terrible contract for 3 years, then you think you're going to be able to turn it around and move him out for something worth while because you'll retain 50%?

Interesting to say the least.

 

[THE Green Man]

Orpik doesn't need a first to be moved. At the very worst we could retain almost 50% on him for one year and probably get something as he's an okay bottom pairing/sheltered defender. That also doesn't take into account that he's an apparently beloved locker room leader.

You're like 2 years too late with this proposal. He's got a year left, at this point I don't see why we don't run the clock out on him.

I also think it's hilarious you think you're going to then retain 50% on him and flip him, his cap hit will still be like 2.75, you're not moving him at that price unless you're incentivizing it in the same sense that we are supposedly giving up a 1st to get rid of him.


So you think we'll give up a 1st for a guy with 1 year left, who we just toiled with with a terrible contract for 3 years, then you think you're going to be able to turn it around and move him out for something worth while because you'll retain 50%?

Interesting to say the least.

These 2 posts somewhat contradict each other. One's saying you could retain 50% and move him easily, while another is saying no one would bite on that. However they somewhat illustrate my point. Moving say a 3rd rounder out to open 5.5M in cap that can be spread around say 2 roster spots as opposed to having to retain in a trade and only saving 2.75M to sprinkle over the roster. 5.5M is quite a bit to be able to add to multiple positions or greatly strengthen one. My thinking is to help in purely cap space from Washington POV. Personally I think as a UFA rental whether at the draft or next TDL, at 50% retention someone would take him on based on his physical play for the playoffs and playoff experience.

 

[Brian23]

You're like 2 years too late with this proposal. He's got a year left, at this point I don't see why we don't run the clock out on him.

I also think it's hilarious you think you're going to then retain 50% on him and flip him, his cap hit will still be like 2.75, you're not moving him at that price unless you're incentivizing it in the same sense that we are supposedly giving up a 1st to get rid of him.


So you think we'll give up a 1st for a guy with 1 year left, who we just toiled with with a terrible contract for 3 years, then you think you're going to be able to turn it around and move him out for something worth while because you'll retain 50%?

Interesting to say the least.

They moved Laich, a 2nd, and Carrick for a useful bottom 6 guy and a 5th. Laich was 4 million and just flat out not an NHLer anymore, he wasn't even useful in the AHL. Orpik has value at the NHL as both a minutes eater and a locker-room presence at the least, and he's heavily leaned on for his PK ability.

Retained you don't need to add to Orpik unless you're getting fleeced. You won't get a lot back, but you're not giving up a first for a bag of chips.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

These 2 posts somewhat contradict each other. One's saying you could retain 50% and move him easily, while another is saying no one would bite on that. However they somewhat illustrate my point. Moving say a 3rd rounder out to open 5.5M in cap that can be spread around say 2 roster spots as opposed to having to retain in a trade and only saving 2.75M to sprinkle over the roster. 5.5M is quite a bit to be able to add to multiple positions or greatly strengthen one. My thinking is to help in purely cap space from Washington POV. Personally I think as a UFA rental whether at the draft or next TDL, at 50% retention someone would take him on based on his physical play for the playoffs and playoff experience.

It's like they were written by two different people...

 

[THE Green Man]

It's like they were written by two different people...

I recognize that... I'm trying to gauge this idea specifically with Caps fans- that's why I came here and not the trade board. Is Orpik's value that divisive amongst your fan base?

 

[peterthegreat12]

A.) Caps do not need a center (Granlund)

B.) Orpik has one year left, they are not moving a 1st round pick or a 2nd rd pick to move him.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I recognize that... I'm trying to gauge this idea specifically with Caps fans- that's why I came here and not the trade board. Is Orpik's value that divisive amongst your fan base?

I wouldn't say his value is divisive, at least I didn't think it was, whether he should be a healthy scratch or not is the extent of most discussion regarding the value of Orpik.

I have to disagree completely with the other poster implying he's comparable to Brooks Laich. Despite that representation, it actually wasn't a foregone conclusion that Brooks Laich was no longer an NHL level player. At the time of the trade many people felt that Laich simply wasn't producing at a fair value to his contract and that was hamstringing the Caps, moving him to Toronto was hailed as a positive move on both ends because the Caps attached a high end prospect with him (one that would instantly become a fixture in their lineup) and a 2nd round pick. Laich also had the "intangibles" that a young Toronto squad might need out of a vet so that was seen as a plus. He was expected to be able to play out his entire contract, don't believe me, just search the trade thread from when the move was made.

In exchange the Capitals received Daniel Winnik and a throw away late round pick. Winnik would be making 2.25 million which is pretty steep for a guy with his production. I don't disagree that he's a good bottom 6 player, but his contract was overblown for a player of his caliber and this was recognized and part of the reason why he is sent back in the deal. Two bad contracts are moved, Toronto agree to take on the heavy load of the Laich contract in exchange for a young player they could write into their line up moving forward, a 2nd round pick, and a guy they were hoping would be a locker room leader. This idea that we moved trash to Toronto and got rid of Laich is revisionist history. We had to give up some decent assets to move a guy who the team still saw value in but his bloated contract weighed him down.


Which brings me to Brooks Orpik. Orpik has one year left on his deal, his "value" as an NHL player is his PK ability (which is less than consistent) and his ability to log a lot of minutes. His contract is an albatross for where he's going to fit into a lineup, the only teams that are reasonably going to take him, even at 2.75 are teams with excess cap room and who are looking to get something in return for holding him. No team in the league is looking at a 38 year 2.75 million (again this is the retained number) Orpik and going "that seems like something I want to give an asset up for." The fact of the matter is the only teams that can afford to make a move like that are the teams that are not going to be competitive, and again, at that point why give up an asset for a guy that walks in a year anyways.

 

[THE Green Man]

A.) Caps do not need a center (Granlund)

B.) Orpik has one year left, they are not moving a 1st round pick or a 2nd rd pick to move him.

Granlund can play all 3 positions- he would be a half decent bottom 6 guy on a cheap contract to fill out the depth if need be.
Not open to the trading down like 10 spots either I am guessing? Would a 3rd rounder be fine then?

I wouldn't say his value is divisive, at least I didn't think it was, whether he should be a healthy scratch or not is the extent of most discussion regarding the value of Orpik.

I have to disagree completely with the other poster implying he's comparable to Brooks Laich. Despite that representation, it actually wasn't a foregone conclusion that Brooks Laich was no longer an NHL level player. At the time of the trade many people felt that Laich simply wasn't producing at a fair value to his contract and that was hamstringing the Caps, moving him to Toronto was hailed as a positive move on both ends because the Caps attached a high end prospect with him (one that would instantly become a fixture in their lineup) and a 2nd round pick. Laich also had the "intangibles" that a young Toronto squad might need out of a vet so that was seen as a plus. He was expected to be able to play out his entire contract, don't believe me, just search the trade thread from when the move was made.

In exchange the Capitals received Daniel Winnik and a throw away late round pick. Winnik would be making 2.25 million which is pretty steep for a guy with his production. I don't disagree that he's a good bottom 6 player, but his contract was overblown for a player of his caliber and this was recognized and part of the reason why he is sent back in the deal. Two bad contracts are moved, Toronto agree to take on the heavy load of the Laich contract in exchange for a young player they could write into their line up moving forward, a 2nd round pick, and a guy they were hoping would be a locker room leader. This idea that we moved trash to Toronto and got rid of Laich is revisionist history. We had to give up some decent assets to move a guy who the team still saw value in but his bloated contract weighed him down.


Which brings me to Brooks Orpik. Orpik has one year left on his deal, his "value" as an NHL player is his PK ability (which is less than consistent) and his ability to log a lot of minutes. His contract is an albatross for where he's going to fit into a lineup, the only teams that are reasonably going to take him, even at 2.75 are teams with excess cap room and who are looking to get something in return for holding him. No team in the league is looking at a 38 year 2.75 million (again this is the retained number) Orpik and going "that seems like something I want to give an asset up for." The fact of the matter is the only teams that can afford to make a move like that are the teams that are not going to be competitive, and again, at that point why give up an asset for a guy that walks in a year anyways.

I don't agree completely with the Laich comparison either due to it being at the time of the TDL. The move was to add a bottom 6 guy at a lower price point. Thus it was a move to save 2M-ish for the next season while also upgrading on Laich. Not exactly the best comparison though it does have some merit. Orpik IMO could be of a lot of value to those surprise teams at next TDL- especially when most of that cap hit would have already been paid. A physical defensive minute eater that can PK with a ring and lots of playoff experience could definitely be moved. Not only that he's a rental- moving a mid round pick for a veteran who knows what it takes in the playoffs, I could see a team making a move on that. Obviously from a Canucks POV it would be best to do so at the draft.

Let's say for arguments sake it's even just a 4th round pick to move Orpik from the Caps. That would be fine with me with the idea of potentially flipping him for another pick or even just for another veteran for a season in the Canucks room- with no Sedin's our leadership group is very scarce.

 

[philip]

I think we just ride out his contract. He's not going to get much worse next season. It's definitely not worth packing picks in to shift him. We need our picks now to be honest

 

[THE Green Man]

I think we just ride out his contract. He's not going to get much worse next season. It's definitely not worth packing picks in to shift him. We need our picks now to be honest

From an outside view it seems tough to be able to ice a team unless you have a ton of ELC's coming up next year if you don't move Orpik. That is if Carlsson resigns at say 7M- if the cap goes up to 80M like it's rumored, that only leaves about 7M and change to ice the rest of the team. That's with Wilson and Bowey needing a new contract, and to replace Beagle, DSP, Jerabek and Kempny. To me, moving a 3rd is a good return for the Canucks and the blow is lessened if Grubauer is able to return a 1st rounder.

 

[philip]

From an outside view it seems tough to be able to ice a team unless you have a ton of ELC's coming up next year if you don't move Orpik. That is if Carlsson resigns at say 7M- if the cap goes up to 80M like it's rumored, that only leaves about 7M and change to ice the rest of the team. That's with Wilson and Bowey needing a new contract, and to replace Beagle, DSP, Jerabek and Kempny. To me, moving a 3rd is a good return for the Canucks and the blow is lessened if Grubauer is able to return a 1st rounder.

I don't think anyone pays a 1st for Grub

 

[THE Green Man]

I don't think anyone pays a 1st for Grub

I could see either the Islanders or Canes being potential. Both being in division, that could warrant a 1st minimum sort of thing. We did with the Schneider trade- rumor was they offered a better package than what Jersey did, but we took the worse package to send him not in division. Then there's always teams of Calgary, Detroit, Buffalo and St Louis who could/ should be in the goalie market. This is the year to move him and could get a pretty decent return when the best UFA goalie market is ridiculously mediocre.

 

[Raikkonen]

Brooks Orpik showing he's warrior this playoffs so far. He's friends with Kuzy. Respected by most in the room (probably). I say the chance he's kept over the summer is more than zero.

Paying 1st to get rid of him would be dumb so not happening.

 

[Calicaps]

Brooks Orpik showing he's warrior this playoffs so far. He's friends with Kuzy. Respected by most in the room (probably). I say the chance he's kept over the summer is more than zero.

Paying 1st to get rid of him would be dumb so not happening.

This. He gets thrown in as a salary dump if they pull off a hockey trade, but otherwise, he plays out his deal in a Caps sweater.

 

[THE Green Man]

This. He gets thrown in as a salary dump if they pull off a hockey trade, but otherwise, he plays out his deal in a Caps sweater.

Ok so say a hockey deal then. Something like the Laich trade where you got a cheaper replacement back in the same deal:

MDZ/ Hutton @ 50% (1.5/1.4M) for Orpik and a 2nd?

 

[artilector]

I would at least consider moving Orpik with a 2nd round pick, depending on cap considerations.

Because it seems possible that to retain Carlson, the Caps might need to lose a significant salary, e.g. Burakovsky. So do you spend a 2nd to move Orpik and keep Bura, or do you move Bura (for a 2nd?) and keep Orpik?

I guess the difference between these scenarios is two 2nd round picks (get one for Bura or lose one for Orpik). Is keeping Bura worth two 2nd round picks? Maybe not. But IMO it's worth a thought -- especially if the difference in Orpik's vs. Bura's cap hits might allow the Caps to make another useful acquisition.

 

[Raikkonen]

Also, moving Orpik means the defense will be of that kind:

Orlov-Niskanen
Kempny-Carlson
Djoos-Bowey

Who's playing PK LD?

 

[twabby]

Kempny would be able to do it I imagine.

 

[g00n]

This team needs to stock its system and it knows it. They have been clutching their 2nd and 3rd round picks since the Shatty trade so there's little chance high picks are moved without value coming back. As was said it would have to be a hockey trade.

Right now it appears Trotz will not be back next year, so the value of players may change along with the style of play. Hard to predict for sure what that means for Orpik but if they're hoarding picks and still looking for him to mentor youth you can be pretty sure he's staying.

 

[marcel snapshot]

If Trotz goes, it means we didn't get out of the 2nd round. And if that happens, I can't see why Carlson would stay. It will be hard to resist the money Toronto will throw at him, the allure of joining a team on the up, and a coach with a Stanley Cup pedigree, in the wake of another round 2 fail. If that happens, we'll actually need Orpik

Not saying we will fail. But that's how Imsee the dominoes falling

 

[g00n]

If Trotz goes, it means we didn't get out of the 2nd round. And if that happens, I can't see why Carlson would stay. It will be hard to resist the money Toronto will throw at him, the allure of joining a team on the up, and a coach with a Stanley Cup pedigree, in the wake of another round 2 fail. If that happens, we'll actually need Orpik

Not saying we will fail. But that's how Imsee the dominoes falling

Even if we win the Cup (lol) I think Trotz may be packing it in. So the composition and focus of the team could change quite a bit.