Origins of COVID-19

[JMCx4]

More grist for this mill ... Bloomberg News: The Last–And Only–Foreign Scientist in the Wuhan Lab Speaks Out

 

[Treb]

More grist for this mill ... Bloomberg News: The Last–And Only–Foreign Scientist in the Wuhan Lab Speaks Out

Great article.

I can also confirm it's been hard with the vitriol on scientists that have gone against misinformation, even here on HF.

 

[DuklaNation]

More grist for this mill ... Bloomberg News: The Last–And Only–Foreign Scientist in the Wuhan Lab Speaks Out

"She’s dumbfounded by the portrayal of the lab by some media outside China, and the toxic attacks on scientists that have ensued." Really? This lab resisted independent investigation since Jan 2020. And she's dumbfounded? WTF

 

[Onslow]

Why is that more likely than natural selection?

Before the 2000s there hadn't been a dangerous coronavirus in hundreds of years, so I guess SARS and MERS are likely to be engineered as well...

SARS1 and MERS also had a prepandemic phase that was quickly identified. SARS1 and MERS attempted to jump to humans many times, and attempted human to human transmission many times before it evolved the capability to do so regularly.

SARS2 was highly transmissible and contagious right from the start. There is no identified prepandemic phase as of yet. It seemed to be ideally suited to humans from the very beginning. Moreso than SARS1 or MERS ever were, since they still aren’t nearly as contagious as SARS2.

Why is natural selection more likely than engineering? Especially when we haven't seen anything in nature that points to natural selection of SARS-CoV-2, which is so well-adapted to binding to human ACE-2 receptor.

Dr. Nikolai Petrovsky's research shows that the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2 binds most tightly to human ACE-2 receptors than to those of other species. How did a bat coronavirus suddenly evolve such spike protein to be best adapted to infect humans?

SARS2 also has a poor affinity for bats ironically. Seems less likely that it was a direct jump from bats to humans, and more likely that there is an as-yet-unidentifiable intermediate species. Or it leaked from that lab.

Edit: Plausible intermediate species were identified with SARS1 and MERS in less than a year. As I said before, with unprecedented amounts of testing, unprecedented amounts of money and manpower, and unprecedented amounts of international attention, no intermediate host has arisen yet.

Great article.

I can also confirm it's been hard with the vitriol on scientists that have gone against misinformation, even here on HF.

A group of influential and financially compromised scientists set the narrative early on in the pandemic. Discussing the possibility of a lab leak made you a lunatic racist conspiracy theorist. Some backlash is natural.

Scientists drown in their own hubris all the time. Or they become financially or politically compromised. I see that all the time in my own field, where financially influenced research papers produce bad science with bogus assumptions, wildly optimistic scenarios, and glaring omissions.

Everyone always remembers Eisenhower’s military industrial complex. In the same speech, he discusses the influence of money and politics on science, and how it can produce results beneficial to whoever is paying. No one seems to remember that. Turns out he was dead on in both.

 

[Treb]

SARS1 and MERS also had a prepandemic phase that was quickly identified. SARS1 and MERS attempted to jump to humans many times, and attempted human to human transmission many times before it evolved the capability to do so regularly.

SARS2 was highly transmissible and contagious right from the start. There is no identified prepandemic phase as of yet. It seemed to be ideally suited to humans from the very beginning. Moreso than SARS1 or MERS ever were, since they still aren’t nearly as contagious as SARS2.



SARS2 also has a poor affinity for bats ironically. Seems less likely that it was a direct jump from bats to humans, and more likely that there is an as-yet-unidentifiable intermediate species. Or it leaked from that lab.

Edit: Plausible intermediate species were identified with SARS1 and MERS in less than a year. As I said before, with unprecedented amounts of testing, unprecedented amounts of money and manpower, and unprecedented amounts of international attention, no intermediate host has arisen yet.



A group of influential and financially compromised scientists set the narrative early on in the pandemic. Discussing the possibility of a lab leak made you a lunatic racist conspiracy theorist. Some backlash is natural.

Scientists drown in their own hubris all the time. Or they become financially or politically compromised. I see that all the time in my own field, where financially influenced research papers produce bad science with bogus assumptions, wildly optimistic scenarios, and glaring omissions.

Everyone always remembers Eisenhower’s military industrial complex. In the same speech, he discusses the influence of money and politics on science, and how it can produce results beneficial to whoever is paying. No one seems to remember that. Turns out he was dead on in both.

And as I said before, the potential intermediate species were burned/put in mass grave before the virus went worldwide.

 

[Onslow]

More grist for this mill ... Bloomberg News: The Last–And Only–Foreign Scientist in the Wuhan Lab Speaks Out

Turns out Dr Anderson (along with Daszak ) was on the WHO appointed (and CCP approved) C-19 origins panel that went to China to “investigate” what happened there earlier this year.

She also co-wrote the frozen food hypothesis preprint, which was cited by the WHO and Chinese scientists as possible evidence for the Huanan seafood market jump hypothesis. This paper was recently withdrawn.

It’s just more of the “let’s investigate ourselves” bullshit.

And as I said before, the potential intermediate species were burned/put in mass grave before the virus went worldwide.

Every single animal possibly related to the natural origins hypothesis has been destroyed? Every single one?

You also mentioned that SARS2 ancestors could have been circulating in rural areas before the wuhan outbreak. So all wildlife that regularly comes into contact with humans, and every single farm animal in rural Hubei has been destroyed as well?

 

[solidaritypucks]

And as I said before, the potential intermediate species were burned/put in mass grave before the virus went worldwide.

Except there is literally no concrete evidence for this hypothesis.

 

[Treb]

Turns out Dr Anderson (along with Daszak ) was on the WHO appointed (and CCP approved) C-19 origins panel that went to China to “investigate” what happened there earlier this year.

She also co-wrote the frozen food hypothesis preprint, which was cited by the WHO and Chinese scientists as possible evidence for the Huanan seafood market jump hypothesis. This paper was recently withdrawn.

It’s just more of the “let’s investigate ourselves” bullshit.

Every single animal possibly related to the natural origins hypothesis has been destroyed? Every single one?

You also mentioned that SARS2 ancestors could have been circulating in rural areas before the wuhan outbreak. So all wildlife that regularly comes into contact with humans, and every single farm animal in rural Hubei has been destroyed as well?

Except there is literally no concrete evidence for this hypothesis.

I don't feel like re-linking everything I already linked before.

 

[42]

And as I said before, the potential intermediate species were burned/put in mass grave before the virus went worldwide.

Which is more likely?

1. Natural selection via an intermediate species that is likely destroyed
2. Lab-made specifically to bind to human ACE-2 receptors with lab records purposely altered or destroyed

Considering WIV conducted exactly the type of research that could have produced SARS-CoV-2 in the lab, the statements of Dr. Shi Zheng about how such experiments were conducted in BSL-2 safety settings and the proximity of the outbreak to the lab are too many coincidences to dismiss the lab leak as an unlikely scenario.

Anyone who says the lab leak scenario is less likely than the natural selection one is not basing it on facts but on what they want to be the case.

 

[42]

Turns out Dr Anderson (along with Daszak ) was on the WHO appointed (and CCP approved) C-19 origins panel that went to China to “investigate” what happened there earlier this year.

She also co-wrote the frozen food hypothesis preprint, which was cited by the WHO and Chinese scientists as possible evidence for the Huanan seafood market jump hypothesis. This paper was recently withdrawn.

It’s just more of the “let’s investigate ourselves” bullshit.



Every single animal possibly related to the natural origins hypothesis has been destroyed? Every single one?

You also mentioned that SARS2 ancestors could have been circulating in rural areas before the wuhan outbreak. So all wildlife that regularly comes into contact with humans, and every single farm animal in rural Hubei has been destroyed as well?

Dr. Anderson's claim that SARS-CoV-2 was unlikely to be engineered has been refuted by other experts such as Dr. Alina Chan, a virologist at MIT and Harvard and Dr. Nikolay Petrevsky, an immunologist from Australia.

 

[Treb]

Which is more likely?

1. Natural selection via an intermediate species that is likely destroyed
2. Lab-made specifically to bind to human ACE-2 receptors with lab records purposely altered or destroyed

Considering WIV conducted exactly the type of research that could have produced SARS-CoV-2 in the lab, the statements of Dr. Shi Zheng about how such experiments were conducted in BSL-2 safety settings and the proximity of the outbreak to the lab are too many coincidences to dismiss the lab leak as an unlikely scenario.

Anyone who says the lab leak scenario is less likely than the natural selection one is not basing it on facts but on what they want to be the case.

1 is more likely.

 

[42]

1 is more likely.

You keep saying this but have offered no convincing evidence for it.

 

[Treb]

You keep saying this but have offered no convincing evidence for it.

It's not like the lab leak has convincing evidence either.

 

[JMCx4]

Dr. Anderson's claim that SARS-CoV-2 was unlikely to be engineered has been refuted by other experts such as Dr. Alina Chan, a virologist at MIT and Harvard and Dr. Nikolay Petrevsky, an immunologist from Australia.

Until a Paranormalist from Poughkeepsie weighs in on this topic, I'll just sit back & watch.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

It's not like the lab leak has convincing evidence either.

it's far more logical evidence though

 

[Treb]

it's far more logical evidence though

Is it though?

To me, how China has handled the wildlife farms since December 2019 is a much bigger red flag than anything I have seen on the lab leak side.

70+ billion industry almost all flushed down the drain in a matter of months after decades of build up.

 

[bucks_oil]

It's not like the lab leak has convincing evidence either.

In the absence of definitive data supporting either hypothesis, wouldn't a rational scientist keep looking rather than draw an unsupported conclusion? Why so firm in your predisposition?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Is it though?

To me, how China has handled the wildlife farms since December 2019 is a much bigger red flag than anything I have seen on the lab leak side.

70+ billion industry almost all flushed down the drain in a matter of months after decades of build up.

what's taking so long to find the host animal? MERS and SARS-1 were found within months

also, far too coincidental that it emerged from a wet market minutes away from the level-4 Wuhan institute of Virology

 

[Treb]

what's taking so long to find the host animal? MERS and SARS-1 were found within months

also, far too coincidental that it emerged from a wet market minutes away from the level-4 Wuhan institute of Virology

I really feel like I'm talking to walls.....

China either already found it and got rid of it or didn't search for it and got rid of it.

It's also a lot easier to track SARS-1 and MERS than SARS-2 due to transmission and asymptomatic cases.

 

[Treb]

In the absence of definitive data supporting either hypothesis, wouldn't a rational scientist keep looking rather than draw an unsupported conclusion? Why so firm in your predisposition?

Occam's razor.

 

[Onslow]

Occam's razor.

The simplest explanation is that the novel coronavirus that appeared a few miles from a lab which is known to experiment on coronaviruses… probably came from said lab.

 

[Treb]

The simplest explanation is that the novel coronavirus that appeared a few miles from a lab which is known to experiment on coronaviruses… probably came from said lab.

That would require a lot of things that we don't know if they exist to exist and a lot of things never done before to have been done. Also, a lot more lying.

In no way is this simpler than the process which has been the origin of all previous new human virus up to now.

 

[bucks_oil]

The simplest explanation is that the novel coronavirus that appeared a few miles from a lab which is known to experiment on coronaviruses… probably came from said lab.

Exactly... the evolution theory would require multiple plausible intermediaries. Finding any one of these progenitors would give the theory legs. And we know that there would be strong geopolitical motivations to find one of these and allow the lab-leak story to go away... We are a year on with nothing.

Meanwhile, gain of function studies at the Furin cleavage site, using the same sequence, have been published upon. A Nobel laureate is on record as saying that was a "smoking gun", a statement which he graciously walked back, but not entirely.

 

[Onslow]

That would require a lot of things that we don't know if they exist to exist and a lot of things never done before to have been done. Also, a lot more lying.

Such as?

We already know GoF was performed at WIV. Some publicly disclosed, some probably not.

As far as the lying, CCP has been doing this since the beginning, starting with taking down the public database at WIV in September 2019.

In no way is this simpler than the process which has been the origin of all previous new human virus up to now.

Many new viruses were created in labs around the world. Just none of them escaped and caused a pandemic (maybe, possibly), until now.

 

[Treb]

Such as?

We already know GoF was performed at WIV. Some publicly disclosed, some probably not.

As far as the lying, CCP has been doing this since the beginning, starting with taking down the public database at WIV in September 2019.



Many new viruses were created in labs around the world. Just none of them escaped and caused a pandemic (maybe, possibly), until now.

Source?