Organizational Ineptitude - it ain't just Chiarelli

Ritchie Valens

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Sep 24, 2007
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is this just pure speculation on your part or is there some hearsay to it from sources?

Pure speculation-I have zero sources lol.

Other posters might be able to confirm but I'm positive Stauffer had floated the idea of Hall "for a defenseman like Adam Larsson" after the season ended so Im just connecting speculative dots.
 

lucicwaivers

Registered User
Dec 31, 2018
12
2
The Oilers are back to rebuilding for the next 10 years and they might miss the playoffs for the next 10 years. They hold the 10 year record of missing the playoffs thanks to Lowe and McTavish.
Time to clean sweep the management - Fire Chia, Lowe and McTavish.

Don't let Lowe have any say in the organization - why does he deserve a spot anyways? Because he was the worst GM in history and he betrayed fans by pretending to move the Edmonton Oilers to Seattle with Katz and he helped scam the city of Edmonton out of money for the arena?
This doesn't make Lowe capable of having any sort of role in the organization and any other professional team would have fired him years ago.

Chia is horrible, the whole management team is. Every trade he does makes the team worse and downgrades the team. An AHL player Lucic was signed to 6 million, McDavids career was ruined by surrounding him with the worst possible players. Fire Lowe, MacTavish and Chiarelli tonight before more of our assets are sold for pocket change.

The oilers are back in the rebuilding phase officially, so might as well get a proper GM and supporting staff ASAP.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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Nov 30, 2004
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Here's where I think things went severely wrong and things took a u-turn.

The 2016 draft lottery.

I say this because I think Chiarelli and Shero had the Hall for Larsson trade verbally agreed to before the draft and they would finalize it before July 1 so he could sign Lucic. The Oilers were primed to draft Laine, the elite shot, sniper we de desperately still need and Chiarelli was really banking on staying at #2.

The Oilers then fell to #4 so Chiarelli maybe tells Shero the deal is on hold until the draft shakes out.

Draft day comes and Columbus takes Dubois. Chiarelli then takes what they and the rest of the hockey world think is the winger with the next best shot after Laine in JP and the deal is back on with the Devils.

I am in no way blaming this on JP or the Hall trade but those lottery balls in the spring of '16 really set into motion where the Oilers are today.
yup I agree

Jarmo Kekalainen not taking Puljujarvi and opting instead for Dubois had a profound effect on the team today IMO...

If Jarmo takes Puljujarvi, Oilers instead take Sergachev at #4

with that in mind, the Oilers then keep Hall, don't sign Lucic and things wouldn't be so dire...despite the awful Reinhart trade the previous year

instead Chia felt we had a blue-chip winger in Puljujarvi, to go along with Hall, Eberle, Maroon, and Pouliot thus a ton a good wingers that were expendable
when he basically signed Lucic during the "courting" period...Hall was expendable because in his mind, Puljujarvi and Lucic would more than make up for Hall's production
 

Tyrolean

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Feb 1, 2004
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yup I agree

Jarmo Kekalainen not taking Puljujarvi and opting instead for Dubois had a profound effect on the team today IMO...

If Jarmo takes Puljujarvi, Oilers instead take Sergachev at #4

with that in mind, the Oilers then keep Hall, don't sign Lucic and things wouldn't be so dire...despite the awful Reinhart trade the previous year

instead Chia felt we had a blue-chip winger in Puljujarvi, to go along with Hall, Eberle, Maroon, and Pouliot thus a ton a good wingers that were expendable
when he basically signed Lucic during the "courting" period...Hall was expendable because in his mind, Puljujarvi and Lucic would more than make up for Hall's production
Can't blame Chia for Puljujarvi. Most of the GMs would have picked him at #4.
 
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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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yup I agree

Jarmo Kekalainen not taking Puljujarvi and opting instead for Dubois had a profound effect on the team today IMO...

If Jarmo takes Puljujarvi, Oilers instead take Sergachev at #4

with that in mind, the Oilers then keep Hall, don't sign Lucic and things wouldn't be so dire...despite the awful Reinhart trade the previous year

instead Chia felt we had a blue-chip winger in Puljujarvi, to go along with Hall, Eberle, Maroon, and Pouliot thus a ton a good wingers that were expendable
when he basically signed Lucic during the "courting" period...Hall was expendable because in his mind, Puljujarvi and Lucic would more than make up for Hall's production

Or LA could've signed Lucic, but didn't have the cap room, but if they did that, I don't think Hall is traded and an entire box of dominos doesn't fall.

The 2015 and 2016 summers were the critical moments, specifically 4 events basically (Reinhart trade, Hall trade, Puljujarvi selection, Lucic signing).

All four of those things had to go wrong for us to get to where we are today.
 
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Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Can't blame Chia for Puljujarvi. Most of the GMs would have picked him at #4.

Unfortunately he put himself in a position where he couldn't afford to not get a great player with that pick.

You trade Hall, sign Lucic, and blow the 16/33 picks in 2015, and you *must* then get at least the 2016 no.4 pick right.

There is no "welp, kinda got that one wrong too, but it could happen to anyone" ... no I mean that's like blowing your 4th and final chance at getting water when you know you're headed into a desert. There is no "try" anymore, it's do or do not (right Yoda?).

It's like the Titanic sinking, there's lots of things they actually could have done I believe to prevent full sinking of the ship, there was like 3-4 major things that had to go wrong even with an iceberg approaching them for the ship to suffer a catastrophic failure level where 4 compartments flooded rendering the ship unsavable.
 

MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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yup I agree

Jarmo Kekalainen not taking Puljujarvi and opting instead for Dubois had a profound effect on the team today IMO...

If Jarmo takes Puljujarvi, Oilers instead take Sergachev at #4

with that in mind, the Oilers then keep Hall, don't sign Lucic and things wouldn't be so dire...despite the awful Reinhart trade the previous year

instead Chia felt we had a blue-chip winger in Puljujarvi, to go along with Hall, Eberle, Maroon, and Pouliot thus a ton a good wingers that were expendable
when he basically signed Lucic during the "courting" period...Hall was expendable because in his mind, Puljujarvi and Lucic would more than make up for Hall's production

i don't know. i had heard rumblings the oil were thinking of trading hall as far back as the middle of 2014-15 season. they gave it one more chance in 2015-16 and i heard it was basically confirmed by like feb 2016 that they were going to trade him no matter what. they did not want him back in the room. didn't matter if we didn't get laine or pooly or looch.... they were ousting hall.
 

Ritchie Valens

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Sep 24, 2007
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yup I agree

Jarmo Kekalainen not taking Puljujarvi and opting instead for Dubois had a profound effect on the team today IMO...

If Jarmo takes Puljujarvi, Oilers instead take Sergachev at #4

with that in mind, the Oilers then keep Hall, don't sign Lucic and things wouldn't be so dire...despite the awful Reinhart trade the previous year

instead Chia felt we had a blue-chip winger in Puljujarvi, to go along with Hall, Eberle, Maroon, and Pouliot thus a ton a good wingers that were expendable
when he basically signed Lucic during the "courting" period...Hall was expendable because in his mind, Puljujarvi and Lucic would more than make up for Hall's production

Precisely. More so for JP I think...just more moronic thinking by Chiarelli that an 18 year old kid who barely spoke English would step right into the NHL and be McDavid's RW sniper because he had a decent WJC.

As I've said before, of all the times to strike gold at the lottery, they win McDavid. Of all the times to lose your position, they lost out on a pure sniper in Laine.
 

CantHaveTkachev

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i don't know. i had heard rumblings the oil were thinking of trading hall as far back as the middle of 2014-15 season. they gave it one more chance in 2015-16 and i heard it was basically confirmed by like feb 2016 that they were going to trade him no matter what. they did not want him back in the room. didn't matter if we didn't get laine or pooly or looch.... they were ousting hall.
in any case, Chia didn't get near-enough for him
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
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Precisely. More so for JP I think...just more moronic thinking by Chiarelli that an 18 year old kid who barely spoke English would step right into the NHL and be McDavid's RW sniper because he had a decent WJC.

As I've said before, of all the times to strike gold at the lottery, they win McDavid. Of all the times to lose your position, they lost out on a pure sniper in Laine.

Hockey gods still gifted them any one of Barzal/Connor/Chabot with 16, and Aho with 33, Tkachuk or Sergachev with no.4 in 2016, and even last case, they could have still even taken DeBrincat with our 2nd round in 2016.

And failing all that, they still didn't have to trade Hall and sign Lucic, lol.

The amount of failures it takes to get here are multiple catastrophic mistakes.
 
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MaxR11

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Mar 28, 2017
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in any case, Chia didn't get near-enough for him

well, that's because the organization waited too long to trade him. they should have dealt him in 2013 or 2014. noone really coveted hall much in 2016 when he was more and more looking like a problem player. it didn't help either when you had captain ference, in at least several post game interviews, comment about how specific core players thought they were too good and didn't have to try etc etc and the water bottle incident with eakins. other teams see and hear this and they automatically see hall in a bad light.
 

Missing smitty

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Oct 1, 2018
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I'm talking about before he ruined his reputation. Hypothetically, if he refused to trade Hall for Larsson, and resigned from his job, he'd definitely be considered for future GM positions.

There is a sizable number of people here convinced that Chiarelli is a puppet GM, I'm just wondering why he would willingly be a puppet GM. At the very least, if he didn't agree with the OBC and refused to carry out their plans, he would get fired and still be paid the rest of his contract.

He's only in his 50s, as far as management careers go, that's still considered pretty young.

I don't think he's a puppet GM. I think the game has passed him by and he's too stubborn to change the way he thinks.

I also think the organization is broken and too committed to hanging on to past glory to see that they've allowed Chiarelli to waste years with the best player on the planet.

They all suck equally and should all shoulder an equal amount of blame for the teams current predicament.
 

rboomercat90

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Mar 24, 2013
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Can't blame Chia for Puljujarvi. Most of the GMs would have picked him at #4.
I’ve wondered for a while now how much due diligence was done on Puljijarvi. There was, according to the scouts anyway, such a big drop between the top three prospects in that draft down to the next tier. I wonder if they gave him much of an interview not expecting him to be available and focussed instead on guys like Dubois, sergachev and Tkachuk. Maybe he was bought sight unseen. Too good to pass up on and threw their work out the window as a result.

I always thought it was a bit of a red flag too that the only GM in the league that could talk with the kid in his own native language passed on him when he was supposed to be the consensus next pick.

In any event, just a perfect storm of bad luck and incompetence leading us to where we are today.
 

lucicwaivers

Registered User
Dec 31, 2018
12
2
Everyone seems to focus on how much the Oilers needed to trade Hall, how much he was a pain in the dressing room, how much he partied? Why is this in any way justification for making a horrendous trade that Chiarelli lost horrifically? Hall also played amazing with Drai, so what's the rush to trade your top draft pick away? He was producing consistently.

Regardless - none of that matters about this partying excuse nonsense. As a GM you don't jump on any trade and downsell your players. The return for Hall was very low. The Oilers needed a "puckmoving" defenseman. They got a defenseman that can't play on the powerplay or shoot the puck. You don't have a knee-jerk reaction and trade your top player and get a much worse player in return.

Even the latest trades were awful - trading for defenseman that are bottom pairs or AHL players in a desperate attempt to make the playoffs. It's quite easy to see with each trade that the Oilers are getting fleeced.
 

duul

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Jun 21, 2010
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Reminder: MacT, Howson, and Lowe all still work for the Edmonton Oilers and are involved in decisions related to on and off ice personnel.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
52,498
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The one thing I really hope is that while PC is making these deals he is speaking with his coach.

I'm fine with a GM moving a guy that a coach overuses, but we need to bring guys in that the coach can use. I'm fine with bringing Manning and Petrovic in, just as long as the coach and GM are on the same page.
 

duul

Registered User
Jun 21, 2010
10,462
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The one thing I really hope is that while PC is making these deals he is speaking with his coach.

I'm fine with a GM moving a guy that a coach overuses, but we need to bring guys in that the coach can use. I'm fine with bringing Manning and Petrovic in, just as long as the coach and GM are on the same page.

They're both healthy scratches on team lower than us in the standings. Trying to figure out what use two defencemen with a combined 3 points are going to be used for.

We have a guy 3 games into his NHL career who is playing 24 minutes a night and looks to be our best defenceman. That's how f***ed our D core is. We have the worst defence in the league and we somehow made it worse with these two players.
 

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