News Article: O'Reilly for Poeling + 2nd +... Would you have done it?

[G0bias]

The lack of a top pairing LHD is the reason why I wouldn't do the trade.

Even if we had one, it'd surely make for a competitive team but we simply wouldn't stack up with the powerhouses up front, ROR doesn't change that. Adding him also means no 2019 high pick who can join that group immediately.

 

[Seb]

Giving away future assets for short term band aids that ultimately do nothing is exactly why we're where we are right now.

 

[Belial]

I would have made that deal.

 

[InAG-P]

To me it boils down to ROR being a bonafide top 2 centre while Poehling is still technically a question mark. Would have probably done it. ROR still has enough miles in him that i'd be OK giving up the youth.

 

[The Great Weal]

Even if we had one, it'd surely make for a competitive team but we simply wouldn't stack up with the powerhouses up front, ROR doesn't change that. Adding him also means no 2019 high pick who can join that group immediately.

Drouin-ROR-Gallagher
Domi-Kotkaniemi-Tatar
Byron-Danault-Lehkonen
Hudon-Peca-Armia

Top pair LHD-Weber
Mete-Petry
Reilly-Juulsen

Price

I think we match up depth wise with the best teams. The best team on paper doesn't win the stanley cup, but good depth helps a lot. Also, let's say we end up picking in the mid to late teens. You can still get a VERY good prospect that is closer to NHL ready that one might think. Examples: Devils taking Smith at 17. St.Louis with Thomas and Rangers with Chytil at 20 and 21 respectively. Bruins with McAvoy at 14. Yotes with Chychrun at 16. Barzal, Connor, Chabot at 16,17,18.

 

[Miller Time]

I think i make the deal (assuming that the "+" was of the late pick/depth prospect variety) provided they also take a roster player back (Shaw or Alzner ideally, otherwise Schlemko).

Poehling best case projection is exactly what ROR is, and we'd be getting him signed for 5 years through his prime... a bit of a heavy cap hit, but worth it to lockdown a top-6 C.

ROR
JKo
Suzuki
Danault
Peca
JDR
Olofsson
Hillis

That would be a pretty awesome C depth chart to work with for the next 5 years. With an ROR in place over Poehling, it's much closer to being contender-worthy in 2-4 years from now (while also quite Cap manageable assuming Danault extends at a decent # & with JKo,Suzuki,Olofsson, Hillis still on ELC deals).

 

[scrubadam]

I would of done the trade. Phoeling though highly regarded is still a late 1st round pick. Maybe another 3 or 4 years before he starts getting into his peak.

How long we held onto McCarron and Scherbak? It would mean though the team wasn't tanking this year and other dominos would of fallen. Is Max still traded? Does MB make more trades to replace Weber?

Also ROR allows JK/Suzuki to ease into the NHL at a C role rather than putting it all on their shoulders. Gives us more time and breathing room.

 

[Sorinth]

What does ror do for us except make us just slightly better, not enough to win anything, yet not bad enough to draft high?

Well if you are keeping Weber and Price as your core pieces, ROR does complement that core nicely, especially if Kotkaniemi develops quickly. That gives you enough punch down the middle, and at wing we are already fine.

So you would only have to fix the D, and since you still had Patches as trade bait for that D-man.

I'm not saying we would for sure win, but with a little luck it wouldn't be out of the question either.

 

[Sorinth]

Value wise it would have been a good trade, depending on the '+' of course.

Still, we're a rebuilding team and shouldn't be dishing young prospects and picks for a 27 year old who is UFA eligible. So no, I'm not sure I would have done it.

Stay the course and build it right.

Except we aren't actually rebuilding.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I guess if you believe in the cup window with Price and Weber and a improving young core, then acquiring ROR for Poehling, 2nd, + makes sense. I'm just not so sure ROR is the piece that gets us past the top teams in the east.

 

[G0bias]

Drouin-ROR-Gallagher
Domi-Kotkaniemi-Tatar
Byron-Danault-Lehkonen
Hudon-Peca-Armia

Top pair LHD-Weber
Mete-Petry
Reilly-Juulsen

Price

I think we match up depth wise with the best teams. The best team on paper doesn't win the stanley cup, but good depth helps a lot.

There's also not a team that won the cup without top talent taking over and making a difference.

Depth is nice but looking at that lineup I see a team that's much like what we had 4-5 years ago. Good, hardworking players up and down the lineup, who with the right system can surprise some teams but ultimately lacks the game-breakers you need to lead the way.

In the end you're just banking on good but not great players over-achieving for four series unless the goalie plays out of his mind. I'm just not a fan.

 

[Sorinth]

Even if we had one, it'd surely make for a competitive team but we simply wouldn't stack up with the powerhouses up front, ROR doesn't change that. Adding him also means no 2019 high pick who can join that group immediately.

On paper Vegas didn't stack up against the powerhouse teams last year either. Doesn't mean you can't beat them, especially when you have a goalie like Price (Assuming he bounces back).

With ROR, Kotkaniemi, and Danault as your center depth, an argument could be made that even though they don't produce like the powerhouse teams they could still come out on top in a 7 game series by shutting them down rather then outproducing them. Add Weber and Price, and becoming a top defensive team becomes a real possibility. Though the D would still need a lot of work.

The likelihood of us ever having a center depth to rival Crosby/Malkin, Matthews/Tavares, Kuznetsov/Backstrom is basically non-existent. If the goal is to tank until you get that kind of depth then expect to suck for the next 20+ years.

 

[Sorinth]

I guess if you believe in the cup window with Price and Weber and a improving young core, then acquiring ROR for Poehling, 2nd, + makes sense. I'm just not so sure ROR is the piece that gets us past the top teams in the east.

No one player does, if you do that kind of trade then you have to follow it up with other moves to get the other missing pieces, like a #1 PMD.

 

[Sorinth]

There's also not a team that won the cup without top talent taking over and making a difference.

Depth is nice but looking at that lineup I see a team that's much like what we had 4-5 years ago. Good, hardworking players up and down the lineup, who with the right system can surprise some teams but ultimately lacks the game-breakers you need to lead the way.

In the end you're just banking on good but not great players over-achieving for four series unless the goalie plays out of his mind. I'm just not a fan.

I mostly agree, if the plan is to rely on one star player (Price) carrying the team for 4 series, it's just not going to happen.

However if you make a team good enough that they can get through the first two rounds without being carried by goaltending, then having that elite goalie makes the cup a realistic possibility.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No one player does, if you do that kind of trade then you have to follow it up with other moves to get the other missing pieces, like a #1 PMD.

So for this reason, I say no to that trade. The probability of unloading Alzner's contract, creating cap space, and acquiring the #1 PMLD is very low. I think stock piling the prospect pool is the smarter move.

Ask yourself this... if we do make that ROR trade and struggle to acquire the #1 LD, do we criticize Bergevin for not building through the draft in a few years from now when we don't have a cup?

It took me all summer of 2017 and a month into the season last year to get on the rebuild bandwagon. My plan is to stay on this bandwagon for a bit yet. I'm not a fan of this bounce back and middle of the pack strategy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy more entertaining hockey but what did I enjoy the most this last 12 months? It was when we drafted Kotkaniemi and what we got for Patch.

Do I look forward to the Habs winning more games and either just making the playoffs or just missing it? NO! I look forward to watching the young kids play and improve and also our prospects. Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov, Primeau, etc. I also will start to look at the top 10 prospects in the next draft starting in January when we get a better picture. I just hope the Habs actually have another top 10 pick!

I watch a lot of QMJHL games. I have no problem with several tank years while we acquire very good picks in the draft.

 

[G0bias]

On paper Vegas didn't stack up against the powerhouse teams last year either. Doesn't mean you can't beat them, especially when you have a goalie like Price (Assuming he bounces back).

With ROR, Kotkaniemi, and Danault as your center depth, an argument could be made that even though they don't produce like the powerhouse teams they could still come out on top in a 7 game series by shutting them down rather then outproducing them. Add Weber and Price, and becoming a top defensive team becomes a real possibility. Though the D would still need a lot of work.

The likelihood of us ever having a center depth to rival Crosby/Malkin, Matthews/Tavares, Kuznetsov/Backstrom is basically non-existent. If the goal is to tank until you get that kind of depth then expect to suck for the next 20+ years.

Stamkos-Point, Kopitar-Carter, Barkov-Trochek, Getzlaf-Rackell, Eichel-Mittelstadt, McDavid-Draisaitl... IMPOSSIBRU!

To add, the championship caliber teams who don't have as good a #2, like the Jets, have elite players up and down their wings. That's the only scenario where I could see having a decent but not great center line be sufficient. And definitely not the case with us.

As for Vegas, even if they do repeat -which is still very much up in the air- modelling yourself after the exception when you have the option to start from scratch is less than optimal. Why not aim higher?

 

[Sorinth]

So for this reason, I say no to that trade. The probability of unloading Alzner's contract, creating cap space, and acquiring the #1 PMLD is very low. I think stock piling the prospect pool is the smarter move.

Ask yourself this... if we do make that ROR trade and struggle to acquire the #1 LD, do we criticize Bergevin for not building through the draft in a few years from now when we don't have a cup?

It took me all summer of 2017 and a month into the season last year to get on the rebuild bandwagon. My plan is to stay on this bandwagon for a bit yet. I'm not a fan of this bounce back and middle of the pack strategy. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy more entertaining hockey but what did I enjoy the most this last 12 months? It was when we drafted Kotkaniemi and what we got for Patch.

Do I look forward to the Habs winning more games and either just making the playoffs or just missing it? NO! I look forward to watching the young kids play and improve and also our prospects. Poehling, Suzuki, Brook, Romanov, Primeau, etc. I also will start to look at the top 10 prospects in the next draft starting in January when we get a better picture

Bergevin's issue is he's doing things by half, he's not rebuilding, but he's also not going for it. That's the worst case situation and why he'll get blamed. If we were actually committed to a rebuild then we don't re-sign Byron we trade him at the deadline. Once Weber is back and proves he's healthy we trade him, we trade Petry during last summer after he came off a career year, etc...

The sad truth is since we are half-assing the rebuild so it's going to fail.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Stamkos-Point, Kopitar-Carter, Barkov-Trochek, Getzlaf-Rackell, Eichel-Mittelstadt, McDavid-Draisaitl... IMPOSSIBRU!

To add, the championship caliber teams who don't have as good a #2, like the Jets, have elite players up and down their wings. That's the only scenario where I could see having a decent but not great center line be sufficient. And definitely not the case with us.

As for Vegas, even if they do repeat -which is still very much up in the air- modelling yourself after the exception when you have the option to start from scratch is less than optimal. Why not aim higher?

Great point about Vegas. It's a decent strategy if you want to please Molson and put people in the seats. But it's not going to get us a cup.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Bergevin's issue is he's doing things by half, he's not rebuilding, but he's also not going for it. That's the worst case situation and why he'll get blamed. If we were actually committed to a rebuild then we don't re-sign Byron we trade him at the deadline. Once Weber is back and proves he's healthy we trade him, we trade Petry during last summer after he came off a career year, etc...

The sad truth is since we are half-assing the rebuild so it's going to fail.

Agreed to some degree. At this point he is either too afraid to do a proper rebuild or he is being instructed by Molson to rebound and put people in the seats. He thinks he can do both. Make the playoffs where anything can happen and also snag guys like Pasternak with mid to late 1st round picks.

Were not winning a cup unless we draft consistently in the top 10 and acquire a few impact players in a short window. There are always exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule.

Said it a hundred times... MIDDLE OF THE PACK STRATEGY HAS ME WORRIED. We have a great opportunity to play our youth and draft in the top 10 for several years. Why not go in that direction? We don't have to have a fire sale all at once. But we need to be smart with assets like Petry, Byron, Shaw, Tatar, Schlemko. As far as Price and Weber, I think we can still win with them but it's a short window when Weber turns 35, 36, 37. Price would be 33, 34, 35.

 

[Sorinth]

Stamkos-Point, Kopitar-Carter, Barkov-Trochek, Getzlaf-Rackell, Eichel-Mittelstadt, McDavid-Draisaitl... IMPOSSIBRU!

To add, the championship caliber teams who don't have as good a #2, like the Jets, have elite players up and down their wings. That's the only scenario where I could see having a decent but not great center line be sufficient. And definitely not the case with us.

As for Vegas, even if they do repeat -which is still very much up in the air- modelling yourself after the exception when you have the option to start from scratch is less than optimal. Why not aim higher?

With the lottery setup the way it is, it requires an extreme amount of luck to get two superstar centers. And quite frankly apart from Edmonton, none of those others stack up against Pittsburgh, Washington, or Toronto either when looking purely at their top-6 centers.

 

[G0bias]

With the lottery setup the way it is, it requires an extreme amount of luck to get two superstar centers. And quite frankly apart from Edmonton, none of those others stack up against Pittsburgh, Washington, or Toronto either when looking purely at their top-6 centers.

We have no chance at having Crosby/Malkin therefore let's not even get something close to that? Makes no sense. What you're saying comes down to 99th percentile or bust.

All those I mentioned are worthy 1 and 2 duos, the rest depends on how the remaining lineup is built.

 

[Milhouse40]

I would have say yes in a heartbeat.
ROR is 27 yrs old steady 60 points 2-way center with some size on top of it.

2nd round pick means nothing to me and Poehling might end up a good player like ROR but he also can become another Mike McCarron.
That trade would've change a lot of things going forward.

 

[Sorinth]

We have no chance at having Crosby/Malkin therefore let's not even get something close to that? Makes no sense. What you're saying comes down to 99th percentile or bust.

All those I mentioned are worthy 1 and 2 duos, the rest depends on how the remaining lineup is built.

Then I'm not sure what your point is, O'Reilly would fit in with every #2 you listed. So your argument is nonsense, either O'Reilly helps us stack up against the power houses, or those groups you listed also don't stack up.

EDIT: And for the record, 99th percentile or bust was your argument. O'Reilly doesn't make us instantly contenders, therefore no point in getting him

 

[The Great Weal]

Stamkos-Point, Kopitar-Carter, Barkov-Trochek, Getzlaf-Rackell, Eichel-Mittelstadt, McDavid-Draisaitl... IMPOSSIBRU!

To add, the championship caliber teams who don't have as good a #2, like the Jets, have elite players up and down their wings. That's the only scenario where I could see having a decent but not great center line be sufficient. And definitely not the case with us.

As for Vegas, even if they do repeat -which is still very much up in the air- modelling yourself after the exception when you have the option to start from scratch is less than optimal. Why not aim higher?

Most of those teams don't have the depth that we do

 

[Church]

Before the camp we had and the first 2 season games, no, i'm not making that deal.

Now seeing our team isn't complete thrash, I'd think about it. ROR could fit well in the lineup right now.