News Article: O'Reilly for Poeling + 2nd +... Would you have done it?

Discussion in 'Montreal Canadiens' started by Michoulicious, Oct 11, 2018.

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  1. Michoulicious

    Michoulicious Registered User

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    Interesting piece in the Athletic this morning where, in an interview with M. Bergevin done at the beginning of the season, Montreal GM says that Botteril was asking for Ryan Poeling, 2nd round pick, "+" for Ryan O'Reilly.

    From Poehling to Price: why Marc Bergevin's plan must...

    Canadiens felt the price was too high and backed off.

    Let's say Botteril called back and said he would have done O'Reilly for Poeling + 2nd (#35 in 2018).

    Would you have done it?
     
  2. Pompeius Magnus

    Pompeius Magnus Registered User

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    At the time I probably would. Now, I'm not so sure. ROR wouldn't do with what direction we seem to be heading at.
     
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  3. DramaticGloveSave

    DramaticGloveSave Voice of Reason

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    I’m happy with the youth movement.
     
  4. Michoulicious

    Michoulicious Registered User

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    Yeah, probably me too. That "+" is probably the key here.
     
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  5. DangerDave

    DangerDave Suzuki's Sidekick

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    Habs weren't a contender even with ROR so no.
     
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  6. JianYang

    JianYang Registered User

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    Did MB just pull the yada yada yada card? Poehling, 2nd, yada yada yada. (For any Seinfeld fans).

    I wouldn't have done this trade because I don't think the Habs were at the stage to be trading prospects for prime players, but value wise, we can't base a strong opinion until we know what the other peices to the deal were.
     
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  7. Michoulicious

    Michoulicious Registered User

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    I don't know the +, but still, the question stands;

    Poeling + #35 in 2018 (nothing else): would we have done it?
     
  8. MD thaivuN

    MD thaivuN Anime Music Hipster

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    depends what was the "+"

    but for Poehling and a high 2nd, absolutely without thinking twice about. i'm not sure Poehling becomes anywhere as good as O'reilly
     
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  9. JianYang

    JianYang Registered User

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    As I said before, no. This exercise is more hypothetical now than realistic though.
     
  10. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    No, you don't make all in moves when you are not cup contenders. Ask the Sens when they traded youth for Duchene. Now back when we won our last division, I would of considered to make that move for either Duchene or ROR. But the idea is we keep all our top players and don't lose Radulov and Markov the following season.

    Galchenyuk / MD or ROR / Radulov
    Patch / Danault / Byron
    Lehkonen / Pleky / Gallagher
    Ott / Shaw / Mitchell

    Flynn, Martinsen

    Markov / Weber
    Emelin / Petry
    Beaulieu / Benn

    Davidson

    Price
    Montoya

    I think we could of beat the Rangers and Sens if we had a top center. Who knows against the Pens.

     
  11. Adam Michaels

    Adam Michaels Registered User

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    Nope. And glad they didn't do it. I like ROR but I think Poehling may end up becoming the Habs' ROR at some point.

    If I understood correctly, they were asking for Poehling + a 2nd in one offer and there was another involving the 3rd Overall + more. Or various variations involving all those pieces.

    Also on the Poehling note, MB mentioned that at the draft, Minnesota offered a roster player that could jump into the Habs line-up immediately for their 26th pick. When Habs saw that Poehling was falling to them, they opted to keep the pick and select Poehling. Fletcher told MB later that Poehling was the player they wanted to move up for.

    Worth noting that when Habs and Sabres were taking trade, Poehling was Habs' best prospect, and best center prospect. Reason to believe they knew they would add Kotkaniemi, but he wasn't selected yet. And they had no idea Suzuki would also end up in the organization. And I think for the future, Habs were smart to hold onto Poehling.
     
  12. Michoulicious

    Michoulicious Registered User

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    Yeah, but in the piece, Bergevin made it pretty clear that 3rd overall was a non-starter, but he seriously considered the Poeling + trade, and talked about it with the team staff.
     
  13. TooLegitToQuit

    TooLegitToQuit Loyal Habs Fan

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    If Bergevin makes the ROR for Poehling, 2nd, + trade. We don't trade Patch.

    Something else to consider is to look at what the Blues gave and compare it to Poehling, 2nd, +. If that deal was actually on the table for the Habs, the Sabres were very high on Poehling. Something of an eye opener on Poehling's value to some who don't think he is a 2nd line center potential.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  14. Sterling Archer

    Sterling Archer Registered User

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    Drouin ROR Gally
    Domi Kotkanieni Lehkonen
    Hudon Danault Armia
    DLR Peca Shaw

    That looks like a pretty competitive forward group. ROR is only 27 and has a few more years in the tank. So I thin I'd make that trade IF we were able to secure a top 2 LHD to play with Weber on top. At that point, I think we're a lot more competitive then we are now.

    It's a tough call but the question is will Poehling develop into a better center than ROR and nothing in Montreal's drafting and developing in the past 25 years suggests he will. ROR IS a top 2 NHL center and relies on his IQ so he should be this level for years to come. Poehling, though very promising, hasn't proven he's a top 2 NHL center. I hope I'm wrong but time will tell.
     
  15. MasterDecoy

    MasterDecoy Who took my beer?

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    Good value, but no. Long term, short term, just doesn't work out for the habs' plan (if any at this point)
     
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  16. CoopersFalls

    CoopersFalls NHL Managerial Guru

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    I really like Poehling, but at best I think he turns out to be an O’Reilly. And that’s best case scenario. When you know you’re getting Kotkaniemi and believe to be able to get Suzuki, I think you do it. However, I’m okay with not doing it too.
     
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  17. McTusk

    McTusk Registered User

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    With hindsight acquiring him looks better, but at the time Kotkaniemi was still looked at to be a pretty big project. Him and O'Reilly on the roster this season would be nice, but it was just an unknown quantity at the time to put O'Reilly on this team in June.
     
  18. Andrei79

    Andrei79 Registered User

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    Trading a package involving a late first/top prospect package is something we should have done starting in 2012 up to the moment that core couldn't compete anymore. Centers were our biggest need at that moment so had MB managed to snatch another center plus O'reilly, we could have been legitimate cup contenders and losing out on pretty much every of our first and second rounders from 2012 to 2015 would have been fine.

    Now though ? No. We should be restocking the prospect pool and Poehling is too good a player to give for a 27 yo on a big contract who wont put us over the top.
     
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  19. davey999

    davey999 Registered User

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    Poehling and a 2nd? Yes. O'Rielly is only 27. If they ask for more, most likely not.
     
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  20. Mrb1p

    Mrb1p PRICERSTOPDAPUCK

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    When we still had Radu, Markov and co, sure.

    Now, no.
     
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  21. Captain Mountain

    Captain Mountain Formerly Captain Wolverine

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    Depends on what other moves are in the hopper. That's a pretty good deal for a player of ROR's caliber.

    I'm fine with the youth movement, but I need more from Montreal. They still haven't really picked a direction.

    Although, if Bergevin didn't screw up as badly as he did with the Subban and Sergachev trades, didn't sign Alzner and re-signed Radulov then it would be a hard yes.
     
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  22. MasterDecoy

    MasterDecoy Who took my beer?

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    What does ror do for us except make us just slightly better, not enough to win anything, yet not bad enough to draft high?
     
  23. MasterDecoy

    MasterDecoy Who took my beer?

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    Oh we do, it's kind of rebuilding, kind of competing, but not really. Keep up man :sarcasm:
     
  24. dcyhabs

    dcyhabs Registered User

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    I would not do it. You have to value youth even if you are going for it. Young players have massive value to everyone other than MB. If Poehling is a #3 he'll be a cheap #3 for years. ROR is really good but expensive for less time, possibly not long enough for the guys to develop. You need a plan, though. You may need a few veterans but you don't trade for old guys and then go young or go all in and then trade vets for picks.
     
  25. ChoseLa

    ChoseLa Registered User

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    I would have done it (Poehling+ 2nd) We still need to build that centerline and ROR is only 27 years old.
     
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