OPPF2020 Quarter-Final: Montreal Maroons vs. Cherry Hill Knights of Kní

[BenchBrawl]

MONTREAL MAROONS!

Coach:

Joel Quenneville

Brad Marchand - Sidney Crosby (C) - Jari Kurri
Cy Denneny - Bobby Clarke (A) - Vladimir Martinec
Joe Malone - Ted Kennedy (A) - Alexander Maltsev
Craig Ramsay - Mike Modano - Theo Fleury

Brian Leetch - Chris Chelios
Jack Stewart - Rob Blake
John Carlson - Dan Boyle

Jacques Plante
Billy Smith

Special Teams:

PP 1:

Denneny - Crosby - Kurri
Blake (trigger) - Leetch (QB)

PP2:

Maltsev - Malone/Modano/Clarke (will rotate) - Martinec
Carlson (trigger) - Boyle (QB)​

PK 1:

Ramsay - Clarke
Stewart - Chelios

PK 2:

Martinec - Kennedy
Carlson - Blake

Spare PK'ers

Fleury
Marchand
Modano
Kurri


Vs.


Cherry Hill Knights of Kní!

Coach- Glen Sather

#27 Frank Mahovlich- #11 Mark Messier (C)- #12 Jarome Iginla
#9 Paul Kariya- #91 Sergei Fedorov- #10 Pavel Bure
#20 Johnny Bucyk (A)- #21 Brent Sutter- #18 Dave Taylor
#28 Claude Giroux- #17 Frank Fredrickson- #8 Jimmy Ward

#2 Viacheslav Fetisov (A)- #3 Earl Seibert
#4 Bill Gadsby- #88 Brent Burns
#6 František Pospišíl (A)- #72 Teppo Numminen

#29 Ken Dryden
#35 Pekka Rinne

PP-1 Pospišíl, Burns, Mahovlich/Messier, Giroux, Bure
PP-2 Fetisov, Seibert, Kariya/Mahovlich, Fedorov, Iginla

PK-1 Messier, Iginla, Fetisov, Seibert
PK-2 Fedorov, Kariya, Gadsby, Numminen
​

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

I trimmed down both of your roster posts for presentation purposes. Please go ahead and post the full thing below. Good luck gentlemen, looking forward to read this series!

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Cherry Hill Knights of Kní!

Coach- Glen Sather

Quarter-Final Round Playoff Roster-Usage Modifications
#27 Frank Mahovlich- #11 Mark Messier (C)- #12 Jarome Iginla [The Thunder Line]
#9 Paul Kariya- #91 Sergei Fedorov- #10 Pavel Bure [The Lightning Line]
#20 Johnny Bucyk (A)- #17 Frank Fredrickson- #18 Dave Taylor
Frank Fredrickson now promoted to duty on the third line, and will be part of our core-rotations.

4th line could be our parlor-trick all RHS line of
#28 Claude Giroux- #21 Brent Sutter- #8 Jimmy Ward-
but when going for a more conventional look, we could bring:
Bucyk-Giroux-Ward/Taylor OR Giroux/Bucyk-Fredrickson/Sutter-Ward over the boards.
Both Bucyk & Fredrickson, with no Special Teams duties, are in a fine position to absorb the extra ice-time.

#2 Viacheslav Fetisov (A)- #3 Earl Seibert
#6 František Pospíšil- #4 Bill Gadsby
will be our core-rotation defensive pairings. We will sacrifice the LHS-RHS advantage of Gadsby-Burns in order to get more even-strength ice-time for Pospíšil, who [I'll never tire of saying it] should f***ing be in the Hall-of-Fame already, For F***s Sake!
This will be a common theme in this series- for BOTH teams, and with a nod to @Dirt 101 , whom I would expect to appreciate the metaphor, aspects of this series will be like changing Pawn-Structure in Chess. Adjustments strengthen some areas- weaken others.

Gadsby- #88 Brent Burns will be our 2b/3a pairing, switching off with
Pospíšil- #72 Teppo Numminen
Numminen can stay more fresh for added PK-duties, and Brent Burns can more readily be his impactful self on the man-advantage... a situation we expect to see with greater frequency than we saw in the last series, as the Montreal Maroons have Marchand, Chelios, Stewart, and Fleury on their roster. [Clarke is a category apart from these four. Unlike Marchand & Chelios, he's not called for penalties as often as you'd think. He's sneaky dirty. Like (the superior) Messier.]

#29 Ken Dryden
#35 Pekka Rinne

I have a fairly rigorous statistical analysis preparation comparing Prime Dryden to Prime Jacques Plante. [Spoiler alert- it's a wash.] I might unfurl the thing later on...

Updated Special Teams Deployment:
PP-1 Burns, Gadsby/Pospíšil, Mahovlich/Messier, Giroux, Bure
PP-2 Seibert, Fetisov, Kariya/Messier, Fedorov, Iginla

PK-1 Brent Sutter, Fedorov, Fetisov, Numminen
PK-2 Messier/Kariya, Iginla, Pospíšil/Gadsby, Seibert

Playoff QuarterFinals Estimated Time-on-Ice Chart (subject to revision):

Forwards	ES	PP	PK	Total
Mahovlich	14	4		18
Messier	16	3	3	22
Iginla	15	3	3	21
Kariya	12	2	2	16
Fedorov	13	3	3	19
Bure	12	3		15
Bucyk	13			13
Fredrickson	11			11
D. Taylor	10			10
Giroux	7	3		10
Bre. Sutter	7		3	10
J. Ward	9			9
Team Total	138	21	14	173

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Defensemen	ES	PP	PK	Total
Fetisov	18	3	4	25
Seibert	18	3	3	24
Gadsby	18	3	1	22
Pospíšil	16	1	2	19
Brent Burns	12	4		16
Numminen	11		4	14
Team Total	92	14	14	120

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Please be advised that the Time-On-Ice chart is rendered generic for presuming an equal allocation of Penalties For & Penalties Against. As noted above, I have reasons to believe that we'll see the extra-man more this time around...

At any rate, re-stated congratulations to @ImporterExporter on his home ice advantage. I know he'll spare little effort to defend his Île (whatever the cost may be). I'm just going to stay loose (like I'm urging my team to do), have fun, and give it Hell. Both teams will know they've been in a series when this thing is through.

 

[VanIslander]

#2 Viacheslav Fetisov (A)- #3 Earl Seibert
#6 František Pospíšil- #4 Bill Gadsby
will be our core-rotation defensive pairings. We will sacrifice the LHS-RHS advantage of Gadsby-Burns in order to get more even-strength ice-time for Pospíšil, who [I'll never tire of saying it] should f***ing be in the Hall-of-Fame already, For F***s Sake!
This will be a common theme in this series- for BOTH teams, and with a nod to @Dirt 101 , whom I would expect to appreciate the metaphor, aspects of this series will be like changing Pawn-Structure in Chess. Adjustments strengthen some areas- weaken others.

I have been V.I. around here since '04 so the site's new policy to only allow ONE name change a year doesn't affect that.

As a longtime Sharks fan I am GLAD you have Burns NOT in your top 4. Whew. He is an unreliable great.

What I don't understand is Fetisov-Seibert.

Now, don't get me wrong, I - VANISLANDER - have a loooong history of pimping Fetisov & Seibert (yes, i have claimed each as worthy first round picks in a 32-team ATD).

But don't Fetisov & Seibert fit the same role? PLEASE explain how they work together. This series may depend on it.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Probably best to go to the testimonials here...

Defense:
Fetisov-Seibert
One of the better top pairings. Checks all the boxes you want checked IMO.

1st pairing: Great 1st pairing who bring everything to the table. Fetisov a solid #1 and Seibert an elite #2. Them on the ice with the Messier line is a nightmare.

There are legitimate criticisms that can be applied to the Knights of Kní (and I'd be disappointed if ImporterExporter didn't cite the credible ones). There are ways Cherry Hill could well come out on the losing end of this series.

Fetisov & Seibert trying to play the same role on the ice and not having the Hockey IQ to stay out of each other's way will NOT be one of those ways.

My favorite 1D pairing in the entire draft is @The Macho King 's Harvey-Stevens. After that, I like Portland's Clancy-Bourque. (I'm warming to Clancy at LD... though I think Clancy would benefit from a bodyguard type-- and I'm having trouble seeing who plays that role on Portland- but I guess that's a matter for the other thread.) My more-than-worthy opponent's Leetch-Chelios pairing is damn good (because too much of the PoohBah-verse underrates Leetch). Still, it'll be my pleasure to provide the opposition a 25 minute serving of Fetisov-Seibert.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Maroons First Unit personnel & Knights of Kní First Unit personnel,
combined and listed in alphabetical order...

Chris Chelios
Sidney Crosby
Viacheslav Fetisov
Jarome Iginla
Jari Kurri
Brian Leetch
Frank Mahovlich
Brad Marchand
Mark Messier
Earl Seibert

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Jacques Plante over Ken Dryden-
an advantage... but HOW MUCH OF ONE?

I have a fairly rigorous statistical analysis preparation comparing Prime Dryden to Prime Jacques Plante. [Spoiler alert- it's a wash.] I might unfurl the thing later on...

Jacques Plante is a superior Goaltender to Ken Dryden. Freely conceded- nothing controversial there. I decided to pursue the interesting project of comparing PRIME Jacques Plante to PRIME Ken Dryden, though, just to see where the numbers led...

First, I had to decide the span-of-time suitable for analysis. Ken Dryden is a rara avis for the fact that his career IS his Prime. I took his seven full seasons (which excludes his zero to 60 in 3.8 seconds Stanley Cup of 1971), and compared to to Jacques Plante's finest 7-consecutive-year period-- the span from 1955-56 to 1962-63, a majestic run which included a Hart trophy, three modern-day Vezina-equivalents, and half-a-dozen Jennings equivalents.

Next, I had to set the calibration point for the comparison. Now, it would be fatuous to set the calibration point at league-average. In Plante's time, league-average Goaltending was something like Harry Lumley level. In Dryden's time, you get a spot somewhere around Eddie Johnston. I alighted on the idea "on-the-podium." Plante's high-level competition for league-best-at-position was Glenn Hall, Johnny Bower, Gump Worsley. Dryden's similarly high-level competition for league-best was Tony Esposito, Billy Smith, Bernie Parent. Based on this, I was satisfied that SAVE PERCENTAGE VS. 3 would serve as a solid jumping-off point.

Run Plante's 55-56 to 62-63 seasons through that assessment and you get a result of .048. This means that for that 7-year span, Plante was stopping pucks at .048 higher than the 3rd-place finisher for Save Percentage. That rate is nearly a coin-flip to lead the league in any given year, and is awesome.

Run Dryden's 71-72 to 78-79 (Dryden missed 73-74 in an attempt to receive the compensation he was worth... while Montreal stubbornly thought they could reach the summit without him. Well.. that didn't work out so well for the Habs...) and you get .044. Plante gets the edge, but it is a 4 one-thousandths edge. 428 games for Plante, 391 games for Dryden, and at the end of the computation, you get a difference that can't be measured in tenths, not in hundredths, but in thousandths. The difference is less than ant's-eyelash territory.

[If you want to run the computation out to its conclusion and figure how much of a difference that is... if you take a 30 shots-per-game standard and calculate how much better four-one-thousandths is as a Save Percentage, it works out to one extra puck behind you every 67 games played.]

If the Montreal Maroons are looking for a difference-making advantage that will carry them to victory, they will have to cast their eyes on territory other than the Goaltending match-up. On this turf, they'll have next-to-nothing, and love it.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

The Montreal Maroons surged to a Regular Season title on the strength of their Forward-depth. How can Cherry Hill be competitive, make this a series-- and perhaps even shock the ATD-world with an upset?!

One place the Knights of Kní can look to is a measured but durable and thoroughgoing advantage on the Blue Line...

Chris Chelios is a strong #1D with multiferous merits-
Viacheslav Fetisov is better.
Brian Leetch is quality, underrated, and fits well, in context-
Earl Seibert is better.

Black Jack Stewart is no worse than a Mainstream Hall-of-Famer, might possibly be at the back end of Upper-Division status, and is also underrated by those who aren't familiar with his career-saga--
Bill Gadsby is better.
[Rob Blake vs. Frantisek Pospíšil is at least arguable. ATDers have consistently preferred Rob Blake... but the latest HoH rankings had Pospíšil with the edge- at least on the Aggregate List.]

The things that John Carlson does, Brent Burns has done better- longer... and figures to do so again-- all the more so as he will not be doing his thing away from his natural laterality.
I'll concede Dan Boyle over Teppo Numminen, but that's about it.

In conclusion, there are reasons to prefer Cherry Hill's D-corps: every pairing, every shift, every rotation.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

MONTREAL MAROONS

Casting Stretches

Part I of a three part series...

Casting stretch #1: John Carlson at LD

I'll start with the least consequential one- John Carlson with the laterality-botch as a Left Defenceman. Of course, John Carlson's not there to be taking regular shifts at even-strength- his biggest role will be to take up perhaps half his minutes as a Special Teams role-player. That said, the coach here is Joel Quenneville... and when Joel Quenneville sees a Carlson-Boyle 3rd pairing, he could well be inclined to do what comes naturally to him, and re-live that Rozsival-Timonen feeling and utilize them with a minimalism worthy of a Phillip Glass opera-chorus. This, in turn, will add to the even-strength minutes of all the other Defencemen, which will play out as follows:

Rob Blake is used to being an alpha-dog on D (or at least shared lead, anyway). He'll deal.
Jack Stewart comes from that era where he might say "what is this '3rd-pairing' of which you speak?" He'll absorb the extra minutes, and he'll deal.
Chris Chelios competes with Fedorov for fittest mofo on the entire ice. Absolutely, he'll deal.

That leaves Brian Leetch. Remember when I said "you get more out of Leetch when you don't over-use him"? A constant eye has to be maintained to make sure Leetch doesn't approach the red-line (and I'm not talking about the stripe at Center Ice).

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

MONTREAL MAROONS

Casting Stretches

Part II of a three-part series...

Casting Stretch #2: Joe Malone at 3rd Line LW

Joe Malone has been slotted into his secondary position on line 3. The concept could work optimally, I've argued, if you pair him (as a Winger) to a Center that draws outsized attention to himself with force and presence. Is Ted Kennedy that guy? He's a Hockey Hardman, sure- and of course he's a Playoff Beast [I've got a few of those guys, too...] but is he the kind of player who would draw 'man-marking' to him, and impel an extra defender to shade over to him, as well (as I'm sure happened with Lalonde in his prime)? I'm thinking- not so much.

Malone had been touted (in the Assassination thread) as a guy who scored "dirty goals." When I think of Malone, I think of a seam-finder par excellence. His nickname was 'Phantom Joe.' He got that moniker by being in the sort of position that had the opposition saying "now, where did HE come from?" For him to be effective, one has to scheme for space to open up for him. If he 'free-ranges' at Center, and has assist-meisters in support, it works. If he's set at Wing, he benefits from that bigger-than-life guy to shift the center-of-gravity away from him. I'm just not seeing Kennedy as that sort of guy.

Ultimately, I don't think a 'fit-to-purpose' Mainstream Hall-of-Famer like Bucyk is any worse in the #3LW role than a shoe-horned Malone, top-100 player though he is...

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

MONTREAL MAROONS

Casting stretches

Part III of a three-part series...

Casting stretch #3: Brad Marchand at #1 LW

As playfully referenced up-thread, Marchand sticks out in marked cacophony to all of the remaining beyond obvious Hall-of-Fame types otherwise populating the two squads' respective First Units. By himself, he drags down the whole value of Montreal's first line- down to the point where I think Cherry Hill's 'Thunder Line' is to be preferred- even if you like Crosby over Messier, and Kurri over Iginla. If Marchand materialized on Cherry Hill's roster, he'd be a 4th-liner.

If we're seeking for Marchand to be his pestilential self on-the-ice, I'm having trouble seeing who plays the role of his Sergeant-at-Arms- unless one commits to mating him to the second-pairing defense of Stewart & R. Blake. I (for one) wouldn't ask Chelios to serve that role. Chelios has better things to do in this series, and Marchand should adjust around guys like Chelios, not the other way around.

Ultimately, between 'Q's desire for discipline and the lack of a suitable "Security Officer," I expect that Marchand may have to settle for being a well-mannered little rodent- and see how far he can get with simply hockey-skill. If not-so-mannered, we should keep in mind that Marchand's quadrant-of-operations is occupied by Earl Seibert- and if Marchand does some of the things that have made him infamous around-the-league, then the thought could cross Seibert's mind to handle it the way he handled Morenz- only this time on purpose.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Thanks for your contributions @ChiTownPhilly

I don't have a lot of time right now, but I think this series boils down to Montreal's superior F depth, both 2 way/scoring and edge in net. I don't see much of a gap all time between Q and Sather. The edge, IMO favors Q due to his longevity and the fact he essentially coached a dynasty in the cap era which speaks a bit more than Sather having the likes of Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, in a wide open league.

Montreal has the best shutdown C in Clarke. We have the best shutdown W in Ramsay, with many other above average defensive players up and down the lineup. Scoring depth favors Montreal certainly and that is a big aspect to this series.

While I do think Cherry Hill absolutely has a better D group, they are going to be pressed on their heels with the Maroon's rolling 4 lines of relentless pressure. There are no pure checking lines or easy outs for the Knights to ease up on.

I think Montreal enjoys a sizable advantage at F, with slight edges coming in goal and behind the bench.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Thanks for your contributions @ChiTownPhilly

Thanks for coming around! Wouldn't-uh been the same without you...

On a facile level, we could frame this as Montreal's Forward-Depth advantage Vs. Cherry Hill's advantage in the Defensive Core. On a more interactive level, the question's closer to "will Montreal more effectively can-opener Cherry Hill's Defense- or will Cherry Hill more effectively can-opener Montreal's Defense?" I'll take in what The Caucus says Sunday morning- but we do know we'd pay to watch it play out in Fantasy Hockey Heaven...

You're right, of course, in saying that non-marquee contributors can be a big part of a Playoff Matchup. Another big part of a Playoff Matchup is to make sure you don't spend a whole lot of time...

... in this place.

 

[Theokritos]

Voting result: Maroons win the series in 7 games. The closest series of this playoff round.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Congratulations to @ImporterExporter for a tough, close, fun series. Up front, your personnel-fu was just too strong for me this time. You have the top 2nd-line in the League, and maybe the best 4th line some of us (who, admittedly, haven't been around ATD that long) have ever seen.

At this point, I hope it's not found too unseemly for me to thank the trio of voters who believed that Cherry Hill had enough to get by this match-up.

First time doing this- lost on-the-road- in Game 7, to the Regular Season Champion. I guess there've been worse ATD-debuts...

 

[BenchBrawl]

You put up a great fight Chi. Looking forward to seeing you in the main ATD, your presence is very much appreciated and a benefit to us all.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Congratulations to @ImporterExporter for a tough, close, fun series. Up front, your personnel-fu was just too strong for me this time. You have the top 2nd-line in the League, and maybe the best 4th line some of us (who, admittedly, haven't been around ATD that long) have ever seen.

At this point, I hope it's not found too unseemly for me to thank the trio of voters who believed that Cherry Hill had enough to get by this match-up.

First time doing this- lost on-the-road- in Game 7, to the Regular Season Champion. I guess there've been worse ATD-debuts...

Tip of the cap to you sir.

Your team is better than a 1st round exit, particularly the D/G combination. I think what saved me was the depth of my F group here and edge in net. Your D corps, down to the #5/6 is very, very good.