Ontario Teachers Pension Fund buys TD's Stake in MLSE

Pitlick*

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Finally I can do some banking without feeling like I'm supporting organized crime.

I'd call TML extortion: they print money while giving next to nothing in return.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
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Can MLSE (owned by rogers/tanenbaum) not own an NFL team, or does it have to be a non-corporate entity?


anyways, i call some rich investment group from abu dhabi or dubai or something like that. Would be amusing to see rogers' reaction to that.

NFL teams have to be owned by individuals

Yup, except for the publicly owned, non-profit Green Bay Packers, Inc which was grandfathered in.

Otherwise the NFL requires individual owners - with a cap on the size of the ownership group, a requirement that one owner own at least a 30% stake.
 

Kitsune

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Feb 20, 2003
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Yup, except for the publicly owned, non-profit Green Bay Packers, Inc which was grandfathered in.

Otherwise the NFL requires individual owners - with a cap on the size of the ownership group, a requirement that one owner own at least a 30% stake.

Which makes sense... if Tanennbuam sells his stake... he's likely to get atleast 400m from it, and with a NFL team at 1b, that would leave him with a 40% stake if he didnt through any more money. I see him kicking a little more to get a 60% stake, and 3-4 other investors for the other 40%.
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
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Thanks to all for posting the clarity on the Tennebaum/OTPP set-up-I was obviously under some serious mis-apprehensions (is that a word? :laugh:)-but things are clearer now. :)

I do see the point about how much Tennebaum needs to raise to refuse/match offer-so how would the situation work? Say (Rogers IE) puts forth a bid to buy for 1.5 billion dollars-Tennebaum could say "I'm holding refusal/going to match that offer" to which Rogers (and OTPP) could say "fine, show us the money."

Would Tennebaum have a certain time period then to come up with the money? I just wonder if this is a time is of the essence-the sooner a bidder other than Tennebaum makes an offer, the less chance he gets to get a consortium together to match the offer. Just wonder how much time he would have to "get the fund together" to match the offer?
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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the way the ownership is structured, OTPP owned the majority of the company but not the majority of the board. Buying out TD gives them more control over the sale of MLSE, potentially allowing them to bypass tanenbaum's hopes to put together an ownership group.

I believe tanenbaum will still hold the right to match any offer, but that extra 20% will make it even harder for him to come up with the cash, and he was already having trouble building a group for just OTPP's shares.

Buying out TD doesn't allow them to bypass Tannenbaum's hopes to put together another ownership group, it actually makes it easier because if he's the one to buy it he can do so with whatever ownership group he wants.

Thanks to all for posting the clarity on the Tennebaum/OTPP set-up-I was obviously under some serious mis-apprehensions (is that a word? :laugh:)-but things are clearer now. :)

I do see the point about how much Tennebaum needs to raise to refuse/match offer-so how would the situation work? Say (Rogers IE) puts forth a bid to buy for 1.5 billion dollars-Tennebaum could say "I'm holding refusal/going to match that offer" to which Rogers (and OTPP) could say "fine, show us the money."

Would Tennebaum have a certain time period then to come up with the money? I just wonder if this is a time is of the essence-the sooner a bidder other than Tennebaum makes an offer, the less chance he gets to get a consortium together to match the offer. Just wonder how much time he would have to "get the fund together" to match the offer?

Timeline really isn't important here -- either Tanenbaum has an ownership group together to purchase the remaining 80% or he doesn't. Right now he's problably got an offer in on it, and simply not good enough for the teachers to accept. His potential ownership group will go through the process of setting a limit price on how much they're willing to pay.
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
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Buying out TD doesn't allow them to bypass Tannenbaum's hopes to put together another ownership group, it actually makes it easier because if he's the one to buy it he can do so with whatever ownership group he wants.



Timeline really isn't important here -- either Tanenbaum has an ownership group together to purchase the remaining 80% or he doesn't. Right now he's problably got an offer in on it, and simply not good enough for the teachers to accept. His potential ownership group will go through the process of setting a limit price on how much they're willing to pay.

Thanks-I'm pretty casual when it comes to this knowledge, so it helps to get a clearer picture from those, like yourself, who seem to know how these sorts of things work :)
 

htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
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Which makes sense... if Tanennbuam sells his stake... he's likely to get atleast 400m from it, and with a NFL team at 1b, that would leave him with a 40% stake if he didnt through any more money. I see him kicking a little more to get a 60% stake, and 3-4 other investors for the other 40%.

A stadium would have to be built, usually running over $1 billion, and it would have to be privately financed. I doubt anyone has a desire to fund the stadium on public money and even if they did, both the province and city are in no position financially to offer anything.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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A stadium would have to be built, usually running over $1 billion, and it would have to be privately financed. I doubt anyone has a desire to fund the stadium on public money and even if they did, both the province and city are in no position financially to offer anything.
Take some money from the city budget. At least 500 million.
 
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Kitsune

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A stadium would have to be built, usually running over $1 billion, and it would have to be privately financed. I doubt anyone has a desire to fund the stadium on public money and even if they did, both the province and city are in no position financially to offer anything.

exactly... now heres the kicker: the quiet whispers of a potential 2020 olympic bid... and the fact the power plant in the cherry beach area (which would be key in a bid) is owned by a good friend of the Ford's. The ACC would figure into the 2020 bid too (there, a tie-in ;))
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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exactly... now heres the kicker: the quiet whispers of a potential 2020 olympic bid... and the fact the power plant in the cherry beach area (which would be key in a bid) is owned by a good friend of the Ford's. The ACC would figure into the 2020 bid too (there, a tie-in ;))
That would be key. But the IOC will be closely watchingthe Pan AM Games
 

htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
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Take some money from the city budget. At least 500 million.

Although Moody's has said Toronto is fairing better than most cities, it is still nearly $3 billion in debt. It doesn't have $500 million to throw to private enterprises. If there were ever a definition of gravy, an NFL stadium would be it.

As for Ontario, I suggest you don't look at the province's finances. The province is over $200 billion in debt. An NFL stadium is the last thing on McGuinity's mind.

exactly... now heres the kicker: the quiet whispers of a potential 2020 olympic bid... and the fact the power plant in the cherry beach area (which would be key in a bid) is owned by a good friend of the Ford's. The ACC would figure into the 2020 bid too (there, a tie-in ;))

Once again, who is going to pay for the Olympics? The feds I hope, because neither the province or city has the money right now.

As for the connection between the power plant and the Fords, it was the first I have heard of it but it makes sense. That area is a terrible spot for an NFL stadium. The waterfront is supposed to be the city's pride and jewel, with the refurbished Portlands as a key cog in that. An NFL stadium with miles and miles of asphalt parking lots is the exact opposite of what is needed. If Ford didn't have enough of an uphill battle if he tries to use public funds on an NFL stadium, he will certainly run into a fair bit of resistance by those who won't let his shortsightedness ruin that area of the city for years to come.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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Although Moody's has said Toronto is fairing better than most cities, it is still nearly $3 billion in debt. It doesn't have $500 million to throw to private enterprises. If there were ever a definition of gravy, an NFL stadium would be it.

As for Ontario, I suggest you don't look at the province's finances. The province is over $200 billion in debt. An NFL stadium is the last thing on McGuinity's mind.



Once again, who is going to pay for the Olympics? The feds I hope, because neither the province or city has the money right now.

As for the connection between the power plant and the Fords, it was the first I have heard of it but it makes sense. That area is a terrible spot for an NFL stadium. The waterfront is supposed to be the city's pride and jewel, with the refurbished Portlands as a key cog in that. An NFL stadium with miles and miles of asphalt parking lots is the exact opposite of what is needed. If Ford didn't have enough of an uphill battle if he tries to use public funds on an NFL stadium, he will certainly run into a fair bit of resistance by those who won't let his shortsightedness ruin that area of the city for years to come.
I didn't vote for Ford, but if he is honest like he claims he better show improvement in the cities finances.

And why not the suburbs for the team. Halton Hills, Pickering, Vaughan? McGuinty is going to change the drinking laws so the tailgate is an option.
 
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htpwn

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Fleuryoutside29

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Nov 3, 2009
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That's over a 3000% return on investment. I guess theres going to be a lot of rich teachers in Ontario I guess.
 

Tinalera

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Feb 3, 2007
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I wonder whoever buys the Leafs, would they dare to have an internal cap, and not allow spending to the cap?

It would be interesting if Rogers/Bell whoever bought the team, and, should they keep Burke, say "You're going to have an internal cap of 49 Million" (if the Cap max hits 60 next year). "If we aren't making the playoffs, no sense spending to the cap ceiling):sarcasm:
 

htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
20,530
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Toronto
Podcast: Who's buying the Maple Leafs?

http://business.financialpost.com/2...leafs-and-the-commodity-correction-explained/

Summary:

- This is the third time that the Teachers have tried to sell their shares, this time seems to be serious.
- Tanenbaum is left with a predicament, either he buys the franchise or gets left marginalized by new owner. He is currently the Chairman of MLSE. Doubts new owner would allow Tanenbaum to continue to hold this position, which may entice him to sell to Teachers for a premium before any deal with a new owner goes through.
- Tanenbaum had a long standing partnership with Ted Rogers to buy the shares if it ever came to that, however with Ted's passing, he is currently looking for investors.
- She says that she had mused in the past that a Russian oligarch could come in and buy the franchise. "It's not without merit, they are the ones that are buying up sports franchises in North America and Europe, and they're paying very steep prices for them. So, there's a potential there."
- Only other Canadian enterprises that can buy this franchise are the big telecommunication companies. Shaw, Rogers, BCE, and Telus. Each one of them have done deals of late, who might take away some of their ability/willingness to make a large purchase. Do they need to own the team or just own the broadcasting rights?
- Rogers is under different management since Ted Rogers' passing. New management not "impulsive type, very methodical, very analytical, and sticks to core competences, which MLSE would not be for Rogers"
- BCE just bought CTV for $1 billion+, but still may be able to step in. Depends on the price and how they value it.
- Offering memorandums have not gone out yet, just initial expressions of interests.
- Are possibilities that you get a group of people, but NHL not a fan of that type of ownership. Wasn't really a fan of how ownership is currently structured now, prefers sole proprietor or an overwhelming majority owner.
- NHL is "very involved," one of the reasons bid books haven't come up yet is they are trying to sort out the various regulations that come with the purchase of sport franchises (not only NHL but NBA and MLS as well).
- Offering memorandum has been in the work for the last several months.
- Likely just as complicated, but not as nasty, as the previous sale of the team in 1994.
- A lot of backroom jostling in the company over the last 40 years, even in the days it has been owned by OTPP/TD/Tanenbaum.
- Unusual for a pension fund to maintain an investment in companies like this for as long as they have.
 
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HockeyH3aven

Registered User
Jan 22, 2009
6,572
265
Jacksonville, FL
Podcast: Who's buying the Maple Leafs?

http://business.financialpost.com/2...leafs-and-the-commodity-correction-explained/

Summary:

- This is the third time that the Teachers have tried to sell their shares, this time seems to be serious.
- Tanenbaum is left with a predicament, either he buys the franchise or gets left marginalized by new owner. He is currently the Chairman of MLSE. Doubts new owner would allow Tanenbaum to continue to hold this position, which may entice him to sell to Teachers for a premium before any deal with a new owner goes through.
- Tanenbaum had a long standing partnership with Ted Rogers to buy the shares if it ever came to that, however with Ted's passing, he is currently looking for investors.
- She says that she had mused in the past that a Russian oligarch could come in and buy the franchise. "It's not without merit, they are the ones that are buying up sports franchises in North America and Europe, and they're paying very steep prices for them. So, there's a potential there."
- Only other Canadian enterprises that can buy this franchise are the big telecommunication companies. Shaw, Rogers, BCE, and Telus. Each one of them have done deals of late, who might take away some of their ability/willingness to make a large purchase. Do they need to own the team or just own the broadcasting rights?
- Rogers is under different management since Ted Rogers' passing. New management not "impulsive type, very methodical, very analytical, and sticks to core competences, which MLSE would not be for Rogers"
- BCE just bought CTV for $1 billion+, but still may be able to step in. Depends on the price and how they value it.
- Offering memorandums have not gone out yet, just initial expressions of interests.
- Are possibilities that you get a group of people, but NHL not a fan of that type of ownership. Wasn't really a fan of how ownership is currently structured now, prefers sole proprietor or an overwhelming majority owner.
- NHL is "very involved," one of the reasons bid books haven't come up yet is they are trying to sort out the various regulations that come with the purchase of sport franchises (not only NHL but NBA and MLS as well).
- Offering memorandum has been in the work for the last several months.
- Likely just as complicated, but not as nasty, as the previous sale of the team in 1994.
- A lot of backroom jostling in the company, even in the days it has been owned by OTPP/TD/Tanenbaum.
- Unusual for a pension fund to maintain an investment in companies like this for as long as they have.

I'm confused, the thread title says "Ontario Teachers Pension Fun buys TD's Stake in MLSE", and then your summary says "This is the third time that the Teachers have tried to sell their shares, this time seems to be serious. "

What exactly is happening?
 

HockeyH3aven

Registered User
Jan 22, 2009
6,572
265
Jacksonville, FL
I wonder whoever buys the Leafs, would they dare to have an internal cap, and not allow spending to the cap?

It would be interesting if Rogers/Bell whoever bought the team, and, should they keep Burke, say "You're going to have an internal cap of 49 Million" (if the Cap max hits 60 next year). "If we aren't making the playoffs, no sense spending to the cap ceiling):sarcasm:

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The Maple Leafs basically print money, for them to severely hamper the already poor on ice product in order to save $5 million is preposterous.
 

htpwn

Registered User
Nov 4, 2009
20,530
2,607
Toronto
I'm confused, the thread title says "Ontario Teachers Pension Fun buys TD's Stake in MLSE", and then your summary says "This is the third time that the Teachers have tried to sell their shares, this time seems to be serious. "

What exactly is happening?

OTPP bought out TD, in order to make a sale of their own shares less complex. Both TD and Tanenbaum have first right of refusals on the OTPP's shares. By buying out TD, it not only eliminates one of them, but it makes it more difficult for Tanenbaum since it drives the price up.
 

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