Speculation: One Surprise & One Disappointment with Bednar & Veilleux

[dahrougem2]

I don't think Roy had the positive impact on Blake Comeau that so many of you seem to think. When considering points per game Comeau just had his 5th best statistical season in the NHL. That's out of 9 seasons of 30 games or more.

His season stacks up right in the middle of all the rest. Sure he may decline but that's likely on him and not coaching. Comeau should score anywhere from 30-40 each year pretty consistently.

It isn't the impact of Comeau, it was his usage last season. 22 games last season he played over 19:00 minutes per game. I don't want to see that

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I think Greg took significant steps forward from a personal standpoint last year to the point where not having Roy around wont impact him very much if at all.


I think a big thing for him, is that here in Colorado over the last year he has built some good relationships with a lot of the players on the team. I remember when he signed his contract earlier this year someone on the team was asked about him and they kept going on about how well liked he is in the dressing room, and seeing him have a solid end to the year was really great and a lot of the guys were happy for him and everything.

I dont think he had those relationships built in Buffalo because he was always moving around so much which was part of why his confidence was never high in himself. Now he's got a bunch of guys around him who he's comfortable with.


I think he continues forward with some good development this year. I actually think Bednar is a coach that will really help Greg also because of the systems and the style he's going to bring in should really help appeal to certain parts of Gregs game.

 

[Avs71]

Surprise: The core finds the next level. Career years for Landeskog, Duchene, MacKinnon, EJ, and Barrie.

Dissapointment: Varlamov. Could see him having a bad stretch and Bednar not giving him the same leash Roy did.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Yeah Grigs has singled out some guys like Duchene for being extra motivational and helping him with a lot of things.

I would love for somebody to interview him now and see his thoughts on Roy leaving.

@dahrougem
Yeah that's true. Now to be fair he played over 150 minutes shorthanded last year. He played 90 minutes shorthanded combined the 3 seasons prior to last. So a lot of that icetime has to do with being one of our top PK'ers but your point still stands. He played a lot of minutes.

 

[Pual Statsny]

I'm also excited to see MacKinnon. He struggled a lot because team's keyed in on him, so he got low even if he was driving possession consistently. A good system will give him the support so that teams can't cheat over to him as much.

I can't tell you how many times he was on a fast break and two defenders broke towards him which left the far-side wing or defender open, but the Avs were so separated that stretch passes and dump-ins were the only way to get them the puck. And that's just so easy to defend.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Surprise: The core finds the next level. Career years for Landeskog, Duchene, MacKinnon, EJ, and Barrie.

Dissapointment: Varlamov. Could see him having a bad stretch and Bednar not giving him the same leash Roy did.

I'm not sure if we should expect career highs from our dmen under Bednar/Pratt. I'm might be off completely but the reason I'm saying this is because with a better breakout system (praying for this) usually comes less long passes from our dmen which in turn could mean less points as the passes are deeper from our side of the ice. At least that's what I think might happen 5 vs 5 anyway. Barrie gets his pts mostly 5 vs 5 so he might be one that gets hit the most by this. However hopefully we will have a better PP so some dmen (hopefully Barrie) might see an increase in production there.

I don't know. It's just a theory of mine.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I'm not sure if we should expect career highs from our dmen under Bednar/Pratt. I'm might be off completely but the reason I'm saying this is because with a better breakout system (praying for this) usually comes less long passes from our dmen which in turn could mean less points as the passes are deeper from our side of the ice. At least that's what I think might happen 5 vs 5 anyway. Barrie gets his pts mostly 5 vs 5 so he might be one that gets hit the most by this. However hopefully we will have a better PP so some dmen (hopefully Barrie) might see an increase in production there.

I don't know. It's just a theory of mine.

Yes the odds of Barrie getting a primary or secondary assist on a long stretch pass goal are higher than a goal generated from the neutral zone, but just how many of those stretch passes does he complete? I'd have to guess somewhere between 5-10% last year. When those passes failed the puck ended up on the blades of the other team.

If Barrie, or any other defender breaks out of the zone with possession and we end up in the other end of the ice, Barrie will still get his opportunities to touch the puck and get his points.

Tyson Barrie isn't scoring 50 points a season because he makes so many stretch passes. Barrie is getting 50 points a season from being an elite offensive defenseman. The more minutes he spends in the offensive zone the more points he's going to score. A better breakout will lead to more possession which will lead to more points for Barrie.

 

[henchman21]

I can see Barrie having some issues... Barrie is just much better rushing and handling the puck than he his making quick passes out of the zone. Along with that, he likely won't be the only defender on his pairing breaking the puck out. Barrie is a smart and good enough defender that he will adapt, but I don't see him really improving his numbers.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Yeah Grigs has singled out some guys like Duchene for being extra motivational and helping him with a lot of things.

I would love for somebody to interview him now and see his thoughts on Roy leaving.

@dahrougem
Yeah that's true. Now to be fair he played over 150 minutes shorthanded last year. He played 90 minutes shorthanded combined the 3 seasons prior to last. So a lot of that icetime has to do with being one of our top PK'ers but your point still stands. He played a lot of minutes.

You know the French media would be on top of it

http://www.journaldequebec.com/2016/08/12/demission-de-patrick-roy-grigorenko-surpris-et-decu

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Yes the odds of Barrie getting a primary or secondary assist on a long stretch pass goal are higher than a goal generated from the neutral zone, but just how many of those stretch passes does he complete? I'd have to guess somewhere between 5-10% last year. When those passes failed the puck ended up on the blades of the other team.

If Barrie, or any other defender breaks out of the zone with possession and we end up in the other end of the ice, Barrie will still get his opportunities to touch the puck and get his points.

Tyson Barrie isn't scoring 50 points a season because he makes so many stretch passes. Barrie is getting 50 points a season from being an elite offensive defenseman. The more minutes he spends in the offensive zone the more points he's going to score. A better breakout will lead to more possession which will lead to more points for Barrie.

You might be right. Like I said it is just a theory. It will be interesting to see his numbers in the future. I wouldn't be surprised to see his PP pts go up a little and his 5 vs 5 pts go down a little.

 

[Avs_19]

Barrie is probably #1 on my list of players who will take the next step under Bednar/Pratt and a new system. I like that Sullivan/Letang example someone brought up on the previous page. He might not put up more points but I think he'll be a better player.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

I think Greg took significant steps forward from a personal standpoint last year to the point where not having Roy around wont impact him very much if at all.

duchene seemed to really take grigs under his wing last year. hopefully they can play together some this upcoming season

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Barrie is probably #1 on my list of players who will take the next step under Bednar/Pratt and a new system. I like that Sullivan/Letang example someone brought up on the previous page. He might not put up more points but I think he'll be a better player.

I believe that as well.

 

[Nalens Oga]

You know the coach isn't an idiot, he's not gonna force Barrie to only make stretch passes if they fail and stop Barrie from carrying the puck out. Barrie will still rush up the ice with the puck.

Also, less of those breakout passes would fail in the first place if the forwards are taught to be in the right position on the ice which they clearly weren't under Roycco.

 

[Bone Breaker]

Bednar:
+ Gelinas
- Grigorenko

Veilleux:
+ Nantel
- Siemens

 

[CobraAcesS]

Too many of you are picking Greg as the minus, and it's sad honestly. Hes the easy answer that takes almost zero thought, and is an easy mainstream call. A lot of you guys just turned in a level of thought process that is about as competent in evaluating the Avs as THN is.

I have actually seen a few people put some thought into it wondering if Greg might be a positive for Bednar's style, and I respect that.

There is zero reason for me to believe that Greg needs Roy to succeed. Roy wasn't easy on Greg by any means and all he did was actually communicate what he wanted from him. Greg had to play on the fourth line and be scratched a lot under Roy. I'm really not sure why it would be any more or less difficult under the new coach. Especially a guy who is lauded for communicating with his players in a very direct and clear way. Use your damn brains, as we don't have a lot of high end passers in the forward ranks right now. Grigorenko will be extremely valuable with the new coaches system, especially with his defensive ability and attention to detail in his positioning. He won't have to hit people to for-check effectively either, so I can't imagine the physicality being a major issue. It's just not a requirement in playing a quick possession type of game.

MacKinnon's inability to adapt thus far when he gets frustrated is one thing I see as an issue. Hopefully that was just a lack of coaching, but it could be a real damn problem if MacK gets in a mode where he decides he likes one or two moves, and it ends up not being coaching that made him choose to draw from all of about two moves once entering the O-zone.

I really hope MacK squashes the idea that he is hockey dumb next season. I can't stand watching him do the same dumb **** over and over again expecting a different result.

I'd rather not pick MacK as my minus, but we're really going to find out what type of player MacK can be next season, and anything in the realm of disappointment will be the ultimate disappointment for this team.

The HF surprise is obviously Grigorenko, but in reality I think it's a guy like Soderberg who like Landeskog ends up being trusted and used in a lot of different situations because of the cerebral game he plays.

So the plus player I'm picking is Soderberg, as I think he ends up with a 60 point season due to the trust/ice time he earns from playing the right way.

 

[5280]

Too many of you are picking Greg as the minus, and it's sad honestly. Hes the easy answer that takes almost zero thought, and is an easy mainstream call. A lot of you guys just turned in a level of thought process that is about as competent in evaluating the Avs as THN is.

I have actually seen a few people put some thought into it wondering if Greg might be a positive for Bednar's style, and I respect that.

There is zero reason for me to believe that Greg needs Roy to succeed. Roy wasn't easy on Greg by any means and all he did was actually communicate what he wanted from him. Greg had to play on the fourth line and be scratched a lot under Roy. I'm really not sure why it would be any more or less difficult under the new coach. Especially a guy who is lauded for communicating with his players in a very direct and clear way. Use your damn brains, as we don't have a lot of high end passers in the forward ranks right now. Grigorenko will be extremely valuable with the new coaches system, especially with his defensive ability and attention to detail in his positioning. He won't have to hit people to for-check effectively either, so I can't imagine the physicality being a major issue. It's just not a requirement in playing a quick possession type of game.

MacKinnon's inability to adapt thus far when he gets frustrated is one thing I see as an issue. Hopefully that was just a lack of coaching, but it could be a real damn problem if MacK gets in a mode where he decides he likes one or two moves, and it ends up not being coaching that made him choose to draw from all of about two moves once entering the O-zone.

I really hope MacK squashes the idea that he is hockey dumb next season. I can't stand watching him do the same dumb **** over and over again expecting a different result.

I'd rather not pick MacK as my minus, but we're really going to find out what type of player MacK can be next season, and anything in the realm of disappointment will be the ultimate disappointment for this team.

The HF surprise is obviously Grigorenko, but in reality I think it's a guy like Soderberg who like Landeskog ends up being trusted and use in a lot of different situations because of the cerebral game he plays.

So the plus player I'm picking is Soderberg, as I think he ends up with a 60 point season due to the trust/ice time he earns from playing the right way.

No reason to get personal on us

I honestly hope he does well this year, because he would be a steal of that trade.

He just popped up in my mind as someone who might fail under a new coach. Not sure we can say right now.

It is refreshing that people are positive about his chances, though.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

A lot of anger in that post. I don't believe MacK is anywhere close to hockey dumb.

Really hard to pick players having not seen this coach and his teams play, but it sounds like a guy like Wiercioch might succeed under his watch. It also sounds like Martinsen might be in trouble.

 

[CobraAcesS]

A lot of anger in that post. I don't believe MacK is anywhere close to hockey dumb.

Really hard to pick players having not seen this coach and his teams play, but it sounds like a guy like Wiercioch might succeed under his watch. It also sounds like Martinsen might be in trouble.

It really does make me a bit angry to see this many people almost automatically picking Grigorenko as the minus though.

Yes there is some surface level (mass media perspective) reasons to make that pick, but the more thought is put into it the more difficult it should be to make that pick IMO.

Greg was never handed anything last season, and people are acting like Roy served Greg up and NHL career on a silver platter. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what actually happened. Roy was very hard on him and made him earn every inch of every mile stone he made last year.

I agree on MacK, but it really bothered me watching him play after he went cold. I'm lying if I said I am not worried. It was worse than Duchy's spin move personally.

 

[5280]

It really does make me a bit angry to see this many people almost automatically picking Grigorenko as the minus though.

Yes there is some surface level (mass media perspective) reasons to make that pick, but the more thought is put into it the more difficult it should be to make that pick IMO.

Greg was never handed anything last season, and people are acting like Roy served Greg up and NHL career on a silver platter. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what actually happened. Roy was very hard on him and made him earn every inch of every mile stone he made last year.

I agree on MacK, but it really bothered me watching him play after he went cold. I'm lying if I said I am not worried. It was worse than Duchy's spin move personally.

I don't think I have read anyone saying that?

What I was saying in another thread was that Buffalo seemed to **** up his development........and you're absolutely right, everything else is a guess. Nobody knows if Roy popped his head on straight or what would have happened if he would have stayed in Buffalo or gone somewhere else.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I don't think I have read anyone saying that?

It's a strong generalization speaking to the perspective that Roy gave Grigorenko chances that he would have otherwise not had. Or that Grigorenko could not have made the same strides with a coach who clearly communicated his deficiencies. Bednar has some of the same communication strengths that Roy had. So I'm not in the least bit worried about Greg.

I shouldn't even remotely have to defend that as a direct and definitive statement. What I'm saying is that I feel like too many people are making the popular/easy call. Simple...

I don't think I have read anyone saying that?

What I was saying in another thread was that Buffalo seemed to **** up his development........and you're absolutely right, everything else is a guess. Nobody knows if Roy popped his head on straight or what would have happened if he would have stayed in Buffalo or gone somewhere else.

I don't really care about all of that personally. I'm sure he did have a certain amount of comfort with Roy. However, hes not going to have it any harder or easier under our new coach.

I also don't really believe he absolutely needed this "head popped on straight" either.

Young, head strong player who was rushed into the NHL before he was ready and lost confidence. That is difficult, but not impossible to fix. Roy is not the only coach who could do it.

 

[falconski]

Surprise: The core finds the next level. Career years for Landeskog, Duchene, MacKinnon, EJ, and Barrie.

Dissapointment: Varlamov. Could see him having a bad stretch and Bednar not giving him the same leash Roy did.

Varly I honestly believes on whether or not allaire sticks around, if he doesn't varly will be fine, if not, yeah I could see him being a disappointment

I could see bednar getting in duchene's head and duchene disappointing again though

 

[5280]

It's a strong generalization speaking to the perspective that Roy gave Grigorenko chances that he would have otherwise not had. Or that Grigorenko could not have made the same strides with a coach who clearly communicated his deficiencies. Bednar has some of the same communication strengths that Roy had. So I'm not in the least bit worried about Greg.

I shouldn't even remotely have to defend that as a direct and definitive statement. What I'm saying is that I feel like too many people are making the popular/easy call. Simple...

Seemed to make sense to me.

Sometimes you click with a coach sometimes you don't. When I played baseball that was definitely the case. There were probably some people higher up than you who you worked better with than others with when you were in the forces, I'd have to think?
Teachers in school who you liked more than others?

No one is saying Roy served it up to him on a platter. At least I'm not.

Sometimes it just clicks for whatever reason.

 

[5280]

It's a strong generalization speaking to the perspective that Roy gave Grigorenko chances that he would have otherwise not had. Or that Grigorenko could not have made the same strides with a coach who clearly communicated his deficiencies. Bednar has some of the same communication strengths that Roy had. So I'm not in the least bit worried about Greg.

I shouldn't even remotely have to defend that as a direct and definitive statement. What I'm saying is that I feel like too many people are making the popular/easy call. Simple...



I don't really care about all of that personally. I'm sure he did have a certain amount of comfort with Roy. However, hes not going to have it any harder or easier under our new coach.

I also don't really believe he absolutely needed this "head popped on straight" either.

Young, head strong player who was rushed into the NHL before he was ready and lost confidence. That is difficult, but not impossible to fix. Roy is not the only coach who could do it.

I agree with this, for sure.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Varly I honestly believes on whether or not allaire sticks around, if he doesn't varly will be fine, if not, yeah I could see him being a disappointment

I could see bednar getting in duchene's head and duchene disappointing again though

I think as long as Duchene buys into the structure, he'll benefit. Quick transition is money for Duchy. In his earlier days I'd say Duchy might do what he wants to do, but today, I think Duchy will do whatever helps the team the most, and that includes whatever position he is asked to play.

Honestly the only one I see continuing to be a pain in the ass is Mitchell, as I believe Mitch thinks of himself as more than a 4th line center and has shown that he lacks a give a **** level every time he is actually expected to play there for long stretches.