Speculation: One Surprise & One Disappointment with Bednar & Veilleux

[S E P H]

I thought this was a very interesting thread to make, and I hope you guys' as well. Well, as we've experienced it first hand this prior season, both teams failed to accomplish their goals, playoffs. Not necessary cup contenders, but teams that could have and probably should have finished in the playoffs. Due to these failed goals, one coach was fired and the other one resigned due to musical differences. Because of organization hiring two new bodies, there will be changes, but more importantly, players will interact differently. Under Sacco, Erik Johnson looked like all he was going to become was just a defensive-defenseman. With some credit to Roy, he gave Johnson roaming ability and became the defenseman we all knew he could be. Yes he has had some disappointment here and there, but so did rest of the team including MacKinnon and Varlamov.

Now going back to that interaction comment, name one player who will surprise and grow to the next level and one player who will stagnate, or even regress? And why would that be the case under the new regimes in Jared Bednar and Eric Veilleux?!

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[henchman21]

Bednar:
Surprise-Gelinas
Disappointment-Grigo

Veilleux
Surprise-Nantel
Disappointment-umm... Not sure there can be one... Maybe Martin, but just for average play.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Bednar:
Surprise-Gelinas
Disappointment-Grigo

Veilleux
Surprise-Nantel
Disappointment-umm... Not sure there can be one... Maybe Martin, but just for average play.

Why Nantel? I think everyone just assumes he's already overrated anyway.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I give Tourigny more credit with EJ than Roy personally.

I couldn't just name one, I picked a handful of players I thought would do well in their environments or poorly.

Bednar:
+ Barrie, Bigras, Rantanen, MacKinnon
- Comeau, Mitchell

Veilleux:
+ Greer, Compher, Bourke
- Geertsen, Henley

 

[5280]

I give Tourigny more credit with EJ than Roy personally.

I couldn't just name one, I picked a handful of players I thought would do well in their environments or poorly.

Bednar:
+ Barrie, Bigras, Rantanen, MacKinnon
- Comeau, Mitchell

Veilleux:
+ Greer, Compher, Bourke
- Geertsen, Henley

Good point. I think Tourigny was a big loss.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Surprise- Mitchell (good forechecker, good carrying puck into OZ which he should be able to do more of if the D and wings are getting him the puck early)
Disappointment- EJ (quick thinking/passing isn't exactly my first thought with him)

Surprise- Grimaldi (speed and skills are well utilized)
Disappointment- Greer (struggles with making quick decisions and the overall pace of pro level)

 

[PAZ]

Bednar:
+ Mack
- Mitchell/Martinsen

 

[henchman21]

Why Nantel? I think everyone just assumes he's already overrated anyway.

I think he establiahes himself as a solid middle 6 AHL player.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Bednar:
+Mackinnon
-Comeau

 

[5280]

By the way, to answer the question- I have no idea, lol.

 

[Tweaky]

Surprise: Soda, Boikov
Disappointment: Martinsen, Henley

 

[5280]

By the way, to answer the question- I have no idea, lol.

Actually, **** it.

+ Dutchy
- Grigs

I had tuned the AHL out because I never like Chynoweth, and I don't know if there are many players left down there from last year. But if there are they will all get second chances this year. So maybe i give a player like Siemens a +.

+Siemens
-Don't know enough to have a guess

 

[tigervixxxen]

Avs Surprise: MacKinnon, kind of an easy answer but I think some structure and direction will be huge for him. Rantanen, will do better than people expect (probably not surpass hope tho).

Disappointment: Pickard. Really interested to see how goalies are handled now. Roy was a big Picks fan, I think his first year full NHL might be more uneven. Martinsen, pure Roy project.

Rampage Surprise: Geertsen will do well with good coaching. Henley if he's given a bigger role and Bourke can't be handled any worse. Petryk will continue to be a top scorer.

Disappointment: it's tough for all first year pro guys, just the way it is. I'll throw Compher here, expectations will be pretty high for him to score a lot if he's in the AHL. Expectations for Greer are probably pretty high too.

Crazy Bonus Surprise: Iginla. I think he started getting on confortsble in his semi retirement, I think Bednar will put his foot in Iggy's ass a bit and get him to turn up the ****s given.

 

[landy92mack29]

Avs surprise-Mackinnon, Barrie and Comeau
disappointment-Martinsen, Beauchemin, Tyutin

Rampage surprise-Martin and Geertsen
disappointment-Compher and Greer

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't know enough about Veilleux to know which players will benefit from him so I wont comment.

As for Bednar:

Surprise: Tyson Barrie. Yes he gets better. Everything I'm hearing about Bednar using an actual structured breakout is incredible for Tyson. Plus then there's these comments about Boedker being told by Roy to just skate out of the zone very fast and that was the only plan makes me think that Barrie consistently flipping the puck through the middle of the ice is on Roy and not Barrie. Maybe Barrie really can make a breakout pass. And if so he's going to challenge Burns and Letang as the runner up to EK in points next year.

HM: Matt Duchene: I don't think Duchene is going to take a new step into his career or anything since I think he's already at his peak. Id o expect him to be put into a better position to succeed though. I think Bednar gives him players he works well with and I can see Duchene regaining his 65-70 point, top 15 centre form.

I do think MAckinnon takes a huge step this year but I think it's on him and not coaching.

Disappointment: Jarome Igina. Wut? You mean he can get worse? I think Bednar is going to play the best players regardless of who they are and Iggy is not one of those. Bednar isn't going to be dumb enough to put Iggy on the point on the PP. Especially with cannons like Zads and Gelinas sitting on the bench. And Iggy is going to kill too much momentum anywhere else on the PP. I think his PP time is cut very short and I think he's a 3rd/4th line player for most of the year.

HM: Grigorenko. I think Bednar will give him a fair chance based on his research but it's definitely possible that he will be less motivated with Roy gone. Grigs is smart and his successs should depend on his own player but it's hard to wonder how much he's in his own head and how much Roy really contributed to his success. Could be more than we realize. I feel confident he'll continue to improve but when a coach is going to implement a system that should benefit so many of our players I guess Grigorenko is more likely than most to fall back a little.

 

[Ivan13]

I don't know enough about Veilleux to know which players will benefit from him so I wont comment.

As for Bednar:

Surprise: Tyson Barrie. Yes he gets better. Everything I'm hearing about Bednar using an actual structured breakout is incredible for Tyson. Plus then there's these comments about Boedker being told by Roy to just skate out of the zone very fast and that was the only plan makes me think that Barrie consistently flipping the puck through the middle of the ice is on Roy and not Barrie. Maybe Barrie really can make a breakout pass. And if so he's going to challenge Burns and Letang as the runner up to EK in points next year.

HM: Matt Duchene: I don't think Duchene is going to take a new step into his career or anything since I think he's already at his peak. Id o expect him to be put into a better position to succeed though. I think Bednar gives him players he works well with and I can see Duchene regaining his 65-70 point, top 15 centre form.

I do think MAckinnon takes a huge step this year but I think it's on him and not coaching.

Disappointment: Jarome Igina. Wut? You mean he can get worse? I think Bednar is going to play the best players regardless of who they are and Iggy is not one of those. Bednar isn't going to be dumb enough to put Iggy on the point on the PP. Especially with cannons like Zads and Gelinas sitting on the bench. And Iggy is going to kill too much momentum anywhere else on the PP. I think his PP time is cut very short and I think he's a 3rd/4th line player for most of the year.

HM: Grigorenko. I think Bednar will give him a fair chance based on his research but it's definitely possible that he will be less motivated with Roy gone. Grigs is smart and his successs should depend on his own player but it's hard to wonder how much he's in his own head and how much Roy really contributed to his success. Could be more than we realize. I feel confident he'll continue to improve but when a coach is going to implement a system that should benefit so many of our players I guess Grigorenko is more likely than most to fall back a little.

Of course it was Roy, no matter how dumb or smart the player is he will do what he's told. I find it hilarious that people think players would decide to fly out of the zone by themselves, ok sure maybe they did, but a coach should tell them not to do so, so that they don't leave their D hang out to dry while they're trying to move the puck. Essentially they were going for a Hail Mary pass every time they had the puck.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Agreed with the evaluation of Barrie. Listening to Bednar's interview from yesterday, all I could think about while he was talking was that Barrie is going to be in a system that plays extremely well to his style of play.


Letang exploded after Sullivan took over in Pittsburgh last year, and I think the exact same thing happens with Barrie this year under Bednar.


My early guess is 60+ points for Barrie this year. Establishing himself as not just a legitimate #2D, but a good #1D capable of being leaned on for heavy minutes.



On the flip side, I think guys like Comeau, Mitchell, and Beauchemin might see a decline in play this year.

 

[AvsFan2123]

Avs:

Surprise - Wiercioch. With Bednars comments about detailed and supportive breakouts, he can probably rack up a good amount of assists. I think we see a bounce back year from him.

Disappointment - Beauchemin. I think his minutes and numbers go down. I just don't think he can do what he did last year.

Rampage:

Surprise - Elson. I'm intrigued by him, sounds like a bigger and more skilled Bourke. Hopefully gets some games with the big boys this year.

Disappointment - Greer. The way his development jumped, and knowing a portion of our fan bases expectations, he'll be viewed as a disappointment. I think he spends majority of the year on the 3rd line and learns through some growing pains. But still a solid prospect.

 

[dahrougem2]

Avs' Surprise: Iginla. No more starring role on "Big Comfy Couch" for Iggy with Roy no longer around. He'll be taken off the point on the powerplay, and if he isn't cutting it I really don't expect him to be given important minutes 5v5. I think we'll see Iginla come out of the gate strong.

Avs' Disappointment: Grigorenko. I think with Roy gone now, it'll be tough for Grigorenko to make an impact unless he comes out guns-a-blazing. And I don't expect that to happen. He needs to provide more than smarts and actually produce when given opportunities.

H.M. Avs: Gelinas. The fact that Bednar mentioned Gelinas in his interview, even if it was just briefly, lends me to suggest he likes the skillset he brings. I think we'll see a ton of Gelinas on the PP especially

 

[AllAboutAvs]

The question in the OP is about surprises and disappointments so to me putting down guys like Mack, Duchene, Barrie, Zads, etc. is kind of pointless. With a better breakout/defensive system it is kind of obvious these guys will benefit so not too much of surprises there. With that in mind, my guesses are:

Surprise: Weir and Gelinas but not so much because of Bednar but mostly because of Pratt.

Disappointment: Grigo. Bednar demands strong forecheck and that is not Grigo's strong suit so I wouldn't be surprised if he loses his top-6 spot assuming he was going to have it in the first place which I believe he had. The thing that might save Grigo is his playmaking ability which is also something Bednar is strong on. Hope I'm wrong on Grigo as I want him to succeed very much.

 

[S E P H]

Now going to throw my two cents in.

Jared Bednar
Surprise: Eric Gélinas - He is that type of defender who has all the physical tools to already be a solid addition for any team, from mid-pairing to bottom on the most contending ones. Yes he some flaws in decision-making, but I think Bednar and Pratt will both be better teachers for him compared to what he had last year. I don't expect him to dishing out bombs like Ryan Wilson did, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to develop into a defender like him (a solid 4th) IMO.

Disappointment: Mikhail Grigorenko - Honestly, this was hard to choose because I could see multiple options who could potentially disappoint. Not because I expect all those players to, but because of all the unknowns which comes with a new coach. A new coach who will have less time to get the team ready, especially for a season which has the World Cup taking place within it as well. I personally think that Mikhail had a very solid season under us, but from all of those players, I think Grigorenko is the one who has the most potential to hamper his progress. I believe this, as he's a player who needs to learn from his mistakes from a firsthand experience, he's a player who has the talent, but doesn't have all the intensity to match it. Considering that Bednar is an even-keel coach who bluntly tells you the truth, I can't see him having a long leash in some of his inconsistent play as Roy did in the past. Though with that said, I think Makhail will either go down either one of these two paths; he will listen to Jared and fix his mistakes becoming a solid top 9 player. Or he starts feeling sorry for himself leading him to eventually being traded away for another project or leaving for Russia.


Wildcard: Nikita Zadorov - He's definitely one who will either have high, high's or low, low's this upcoming season. Let's hope that he gets some great coaching and learning aspects from not only Bednar during training camp, but Foote and Pratt as well.

Eric Veilleux
Surprise: JT Compher - With the addition of Ben Smith, I think the likelihood of him making the big club decreased quite bit. Then factor in that I thought he still needs another year of physical development from what I saw at the prospect camp. Whatever the case is, Veilleux seems like an offensive coach who like Bednar, focuses on a solid forecheck and fast transition game. Both of those aspects are some of J.T.'s greatest strengths, then consider his age and maturity, I think he's going to start in the top 6 and finish the season there with solid numbers.

Disappointment: Troy Bourke - Like Hishon, I don't think it's entirely his fault from what happened with him. He got a coach who thought he was pretty much useless and was back and forth in and out of the lineup. I do think that screwed up his development, but more importantly his confidence. I know some posters probably always forget about him, but from me watching him in the WHL, I saw the potential he had. Not really as a top 6 NHL forward, but I think he could have become a solid two-way secondary scorer. Whatever the case now, I think he falls out of the whole organization as Meurs did and finishes in the ECHL being an afterthought.

 

[AvsGuy]

What I'm concluding from this is that Roy probably insisted on Grigorenko in that trade and no one holds out much hope for him without Patty. I don't know his potential well enough to argue it, but that's a bummer.

I'm gonna say MacKinnon truly breaks out this year under Bednar, while Blake Comeau's stats drop like a broken elevator.

 

[dahrougem2]

What I'm concluding from this is that Roy probably insisted on Grigorenko in that trade and no one holds out much hope for him without Patty. I don't know his potential well enough to argue it, but that's a bummer.

I'm gonna say MacKinnon truly breaks out this year under Bednar, while Blake Comeau's stats drop like a broken elevator.

I don't think his stats will drop like a broken elevator, but his time on ice may. Last season was the 2nd highest TOI average for his career at 17:38. His career high was in 2010-2011 with the Islanders at 18:41 and, unsurprisingly, it was his most productive season offensively.

However, if Iginla struggles under a new coach and Grigorenko the same, Comeau may in fact play just as much as last season.

 

[5280]

What I'm concluding from this is that Roy probably insisted on Grigorenko in that trade and no one holds out much hope for him without Patty. I don't know his potential well enough to argue it, but that's a bummer.

I'm gonna say MacKinnon truly breaks out this year under Bednar, while Blake Comeau's stats drop like a broken elevator.

Yeah to me it's one of two things and maybe both. Either he's just clicks/clicked with Roy for some reason, Buffalo really screwed up his development...or both.

This is not to say he can't click with another coach or that maybe it was just Buffalo rushing him too fast. Might be he really will become a quality player and he just needed to get out of Buffalo to get his head back on straight. Hard to say, I guess, at this point.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I don't think Roy had the positive impact on Blake Comeau that so many of you seem to think. When considering points per game Comeau just had his 5th best statistical season in the NHL. That's out of 9 seasons of 30 games or more.

His season stacks up right in the middle of all the rest. Sure he may decline but that's likely on him and not coaching. Comeau should score anywhere from 30-40 each year pretty consistently.