One set of boundaries - Parity on the Ice - Close but no Cigar

[GSC2k2*]

Detroit and Dallas, apparently.

That boggles me. I wouldn't think Dallas-Buffalo would a.) draw better than Dallas-New Jersey and b.) draw better than the "vaunted" Avs series.

Is that total viewership or viewship for a single game? If it's for a whole series, you need to go through and divide by number of games to get a true sense of which series drew best.

Actually, it might have been due to time zone differences. Does anyone recall whether the Avs series games were on late on the east coast?

 

[hockeytown9321]

Actually, it might have been due to time zone differences. Does anyone recall whether the Avs series games were on late on the east coast?

I beleive all Finals games start at 8 ET, no matter who's playing.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I am not sure about the validity of adding CBC viewers to only Detroit series (if that is what you are doing - too lazy to read all posts). Detroit gets CBC as a cable channel anyway, don't they? Assuming so, Detroit fans will often choose to watch CBC for their hockey finals fix, no matter who is playing. Granted, there may be a few more who tune in on CBC when it is Detroit, but nevertheless I would assume most fans would choose CBC for the quality of coverage. To not add them to other ratings but only for Detroit series implies that zero detroit hockey fans watch when the Wings are not in there. I doubt that to be true in Hockeytown.

 

[hockeytown9321]

I am not sure about the validity of adding CBC viewers to only Detroit series (if that is what you are doing - too lazy to read all posts). Detroit gets CBC as a cable channel anyway, don't they? Assuming so, Detroit fans will often choose to watch CBC for their hockey finals fix, no matter who is playing. Granted, there may be a few more who tune in on CBC when it is Detroit, but nevertheless I would assume most fans would choose CBC for the quality of coverage. To not add them to other ratings but only for Detroit series implies that zero detroit hockey fans watch when the Wings are not in there. I doubt that to be true in Hockeytown.

Detroit gets CBC OTA and through most cable systems.

Sure, most hockey fans here would watch CBC regardless of who's playing, but we're talking a pretty small number if the Wings aren't involved. In 1998, they had a 22.7 local rating and 31 share for CBC, which is where I get the 500K from. I can't find the local numbers for other years, but I'd imagine non Wings years would be in the 3.0-5.0 neighborhood, so figure an additional 100K at best.

 

[Sammy*]

New NHL min Salary is now going to be 400K ..

Now all Lonny Bohonos, Steve Kariya and Corey Hirsch have to do is wait till the NHL GM's hand out some bad contracts like they always do and offer their services to fill rosters at league min and we get to see the new CBA is full bloom ..

Welcome home boys I second the sentiment ..

The new NHL motto .. No longer are they allowed to say the best league in the world .. now they are forced to change the motto to the best league in the world that under 36 mil can buy you ..

How many teams in europ other than last year had a 36 mil payroll ( & last year, what one?)?
thought so.
You better get a grip on what "best league in the world" means, or did you forget to take English when you were getting your C.A.?

 

[A Good Flying Bird*]

To not add them to other ratings but only for Detroit series implies that zero detroit hockey fans watch when the Wings are not in there. I doubt that to be true in Hockeytown.

Judging by the lockout coverage in local papers, and judging by the the piss poor coverage of the playoffs after the Wings are eliminated, I often wonder if Detroit is really just a lot like the rest of America when the WIngs aren't it in it.

Yeah, Detroit's been fortunate to have the NHL for over 75 years, plus the luxury of HNIC every saturday.
But seriously, Americans are Americans when it comes to hockey.
As soon as the Wings are out, I'd say hockey loses about 85 percent of its viewership in the Detroit area.

 

[Gnashville]

That is my point. Their was more parity during the last decade in hockey than there ever was. To judge parity, I look at the standings and look at how many teams were under 60 pts and what the difference in pts was between the top playoff team and the bottom playoff team.

For example in 83-84, the Detroit Red Wings were in the playoffs with 69 pts.

84-85 Detroit made it in with 66 pts

85-86 Toronto made it with 70 pts

Fast forward it to 2000

The bottom seed had 84 pts

My point is that teams are much closer right now than they were back in the 80's record wise. I don't get the argument about parity when we have 16 teams finishing with above .500 records.

But there are 30 teams now not 22 the bad teams aren't making the PO's anymore. You had to be really bad to miss out on the Playoffs when 16 teams made it and 6 did not.the top teams had easier routes to the Conference finals. See expansion IS a good thing.

 

[Mess]

How many teams in europ other than last year had a 36 mil payroll ( & last year, what one?)?

I don't think you need to cry about it ..

However I think you are confusing price with affordibility ..

NO one said there was a league as a whole that will or needs to pay more for my previous statement to be true ..

There are going to be players bought out and may never find another NHL job or NHL vets that will be replaced with cheaper talent ..

The ELS in the new CBA with possibly keep young players like Ovechkin at home .. If your home conurty is offering you 2-3 mil and the mighty NHL 850K then my point is true ..

When GM's that couldn't control themselves under the old CBA get turned lose with new rules then they will continue to bid too much and hand out bad contracts but now the CAP will make those miskates costly and force a team to cut or remove a better player and fill the roster with glorified AHLers becasue they are cheap..

So no longer will the NHL have the best players at all times in the world, just the ones that fit under a hard cap ceiling of 36 ..

 

[Pepper]

Messenger, how many times you need to spew your crap that has been proven wrong several times??

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

I don't think you need to cry about it ..

However I think you are confusing price with affordibility ..

NO one said there was a league as a whole that will or needs to pay more for my previous statement to be true ..

There are going to be players bought out and may never find another NHL job or NHL vets that will be replaced with cheaper talent ..

The ELS in the new CBA with possibly keep young players like Ovechkin at home .. If your home conurty is offering you 2-3 mil and the mighty NHL 850K then my point is true ..

When GM's that couldn't control themselves under the old CBA get turned lose with new rules then they will continue to bid too much and hand out bad contracts but now the CAP will make those miskates costly and force a team to cut or remove a better player and fill the roster with glorified AHLers becasue they are cheap..

So no longer will the NHL have the best players at all times in the world, just the ones that fit under a hard cap ceiling of 36 ..

Actually it seems YOU are confusing price and affordability. Most European teams play in small arenas and have low ticket prices. The players being paid $2-3 million players are not affordable for the teams throwing that money out there. You are confusing a loss-leader situation, where a couple of teams got into a arms race for one season, and applying that to a whole industry. If you think that Russian teams are going to be paying out Rangers type money again you're crazy. That was a one time thing and won't be seen again. Teams in Europe have lived within their means and will continue to do so. They will sign players that are AFFORDABLE and at a level that league ticket PRICES can sustain.

 

[me2]

Chubarov is not a 2nd liner and will not really be missed even if he goes (which I doubt very much).

Lonny Bohonos, Steve Kariya and Corey Hirsch are perfect examples of players who earn more money in Europe than in NHL so try again.

Europe than in NA (the AHL). If they were in the NHL with decent prospects they'd be looking to say there.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

There are going to be players bought out and may never find another NHL job or NHL vets that will be replaced with cheaper talent ..

The ELS in the new CBA with possibly keep young players like Ovechkin at home .. If your home conurty is offering you 2-3 mil and the mighty NHL 850K then my point is true ..

When GM's that couldn't control themselves under the old CBA get turned lose with new rules then they will continue to bid too much and hand out bad contracts but now the CAP will make those miskates costly and force a team to cut or remove a better player and fill the roster with glorified AHLers becasue they are cheap..

So no longer will the NHL have the best players at all times in the world, just the ones that fit under a hard cap ceiling of 36 ..

Don't want to put words in your mouth - let me know if I'm wrong:

1) Several posters have shown how Ovechkin will make 2 to 3 TIMES as much in the NHL over his career compared to Russia. It's definetely possible that he stays in Russia due to other issues, but I think it's a very isolated case. With bonuses, I think AO could make $1.2M per, which should be enough so he can scrape by for the first 4 years.

2) So penalizing teams that give out butt-stupid contracts is now a bad thing? I guess we don't want the well run teams to have an advantage? Please let me know how this is bad thing for the league as a whole?

3) The best players in the NHL will probably make $6-7M. That is probably at least 3 TIMES what they could make anywhere else in the world. Sure there are some borderline talent guys (Rachunek comes to mind) that might get squeezed, but the elite level talents will be playing in the NHL.

 

[Macman]

Messenger, how many times you need to spew your crap that has been proven wrong several times??

How could he be proven wrong when we haven't seen how the league will operate under a cap? I'm amazed at people who are so dead certain how things are going to work before they even happen. You might be right. The NHL might pick up where it left off with everybody signing up for way less money and going about their merry way. But can't you even open your mind to the possibility that things could change and not necessarily for the better; that some good players will go elsewhere and that teams will pad their rosters with cheap, less-talented help because they longer have room under the cap. It's already been suggested by greater hockey minds than you or I.

 

[Pepper]

How could he be proven wrong when we haven't seen how the league will operate under a cap? I'm amazed at people who are so dead certain how things are going to work before they even happen. You might be right. The NHL might pick up where it left off with everybody signing up for way less money and going about their merry way. .

Because none of the facts support that theory, that's why I'm so certain.

But can't you even open your mind to the possibility that things could change and not necessarily for the better; that some good players will go elsewhere and that teams will pad their rosters with cheap, less-talented help because they longer have room under the cap. It's already been suggested by greater hockey minds than you or I.

*EVERY* star player currently in NHL will make more money in the NHL than in Europe, that's a fact with or without a cap. If some team can't fit a star player under their cap, they will trade him to a team who has room.

Hey, it's entirely possible that some players will leave to Russia. Most likely they will be russians and most likely they are not going to make more money there.

 

[Hoss]

*EVERY* star player currently in NHL will make more money in the NHL than in Europe, that's a fact with or without a cap. If some team can't fit a star player under their cap, they will trade him to a team who has room.

Hey, it's entirely possible that some players will leave to Russia. Most likely they will be russians and most likely they are not going to make more money there.

Your of course right, no way is Europe going to be able to offer an Iggy-type player more than an NHL team. It's the depth player's who may make the move, especially if they are European. You can easily discount the possibility of losing a player like Chubarov, lots of Canucks fans would disagree with you.

Do you think the NHL's elite players are now going to be cranking it out for $3-4million/season? It'd be nice to see but I really doubt it will happen. They'll still be compensated close to $6-8million/season. A team like the Nucks with three elite's (Bert/Nazzy/Jovo) is going to be spending half to two thirds of thier cap space on three players. Ouch. More scrubs less potential.

 

[AM]

yah thats a shame....

Your of course right, no way is Europe going to be able to offer an Iggy-type player more than an NHL team. It's the depth player's who may make the move, especially if they are European. You can easily discount the possibility of losing a player like Chubarov, lots of Canucks fans would disagree with you.

Do you think the NHL's elite players are now going to be cranking it out for $3-4million/season? It'd be nice to see but I really doubt it will happen. They'll still be compensated close to $6-8million/season. A team like the Nucks with three elite's (Bert/Nazzy/Jovo) is going to be spending half to two thirds of thier cap space on three players. Ouch. More scrubs less potential.

too bad we cant keep all the scrubs together on the penguins for 3 or 4 more seasons!

 

[Hoss]

too bad we cant keep all the scrubs together on the penguins for 3 or 4 more seasons!

Are you sure your not motivated out of vengence? Because the Canucks are going to be at $38million the Penguins are now going to have more spending capability? Face it, unless the Penguins generate more revenue your going to have to just be comfortable sleeping on the floor.

 

[Hunter74]

Sorry Im kinda confused.

In the orginal post was he saying that when a team is "classified" as a small market team they are not allowed to upgrade to a big market team even if they want to?

Example Nashville might have been considered a small market team but as the fan base grows and all that jazz they end up making as much money as a "big market" team. But it seems despite Nashvilles economical growth they wont be allowed to upgrade to a big market team and spend more than the $29mil so that the NHL can maintain its 2 tier system.

I do not for the life of me understand why the PA or the Owners would want to limite so many teams from spending more than the $29mil just so a hanfull (minority) can spend $7mil more than everyone (majority) else. Dont see how teh majority would agree to that or the players as its practically making there cap space even more limited.

Just seems super moronic for both the Owners and PA.

But if is a chioce between luxury tax receiving and paying than thats different and ok with me.

 

[Pepper]

Your of course right, no way is Europe going to be able to offer an Iggy-type player more than an NHL team. It's the depth player's who may make the move, especially if they are European. You can easily discount the possibility of losing a player like Chubarov, lots of Canucks fans would disagree with you.

Not all Europeans, my bet is that huge majority of finnish & swedish players would never play in Russia. Russians are the most likely to leave.

Honestly, while players like Chubarov might bolt, there are lots of players who can do the same job so them leaving has a very marginal effect on fans.

Do you think the NHL's elite players are now going to be cranking it out for $3-4million/season? It'd be nice to see but I really doubt it will happen. They'll still be compensated close to $6-8million/season. A team like the Nucks with three elite's (Bert/Nazzy/Jovo) is going to be spending half to two thirds of thier cap space on three players. Ouch. More scrubs less potential.

Players like Bertuzzi and Naslund will most likely get something like $4-6M per year, Jovanovski maybe $4M. Yeah, it will be hard for Canucks to fit them under the cap but if they can afford the max ($36M + taxes = $43M), they can easily do it.

 

[Pepper]

Sorry Im kinda confused.

In the orginal post was he saying that when a team is "classified" as a small market team they are not allowed to upgrade to a big market team even if they want to?

Example Nashville might have been considered a small market team but as the fan base grows and all that jazz they end up making as much money as a "big market" team. But it seems despite Nashvilles economical growth they wont be allowed to upgrade to a big market team and spend more than the $29mil so that the NHL can maintain its 2 tier system.

I do not for the life of me understand why the PA or the Owners would want to limite so many teams from spending more than the $29mil just so a hanfull (minority) can spend $7mil more than everyone (majority) else. Dont see how teh majority would agree to that or the players as its practically making there cap space even more limited.

Just seems super moronic for both the Owners and PA.

But if is a chioce between luxury tax receiving and paying than thats different and ok with me.

<sigh>

I can't blame you if Messenger's original post confused you, you're not the only one it seems.

Every team can spend as much as it wants within the CBA min-max limits, it doesn't matter if you're Carolina or Detroit, both can spend anything between 22-36M on salaries.

Those who go above the 29M luxury tax limit, will NOT (most likely) get any luxury tax money, those who are under 29M will get some.

So it's totally up to GMs to decide what they want to spend.

 

[Mat]

i agree with Mess on this thread

 

[Mat]

None of the above will happen. The luxury tax (if there is one) will be at threshold each team will decide to go over or not on a voluntary basis. Nobody's going to go to Nashville and say, "You're small market, you spend this."

Their fans would be rioting in the streets.

Nashville has fans??

 

[Sammy*]

I don't think you need to cry about it ..

However I think you are confusing price with affordibility ..

NO one said there was a league as a whole that will or needs to pay more for my previous statement to be true ..

There are going to be players bought out and may never find another NHL job or NHL vets that will be replaced with cheaper talent ..

The ELS in the new CBA with possibly keep young players like Ovechkin at home .. If your home conurty is offering you 2-3 mil and the mighty NHL 850K then my point is true ..

When GM's that couldn't control themselves under the old CBA get turned lose with new rules then they will continue to bid too much and hand out bad contracts but now the CAP will make those miskates costly and force a team to cut or remove a better player and fill the roster with glorified AHLers becasue they are cheap..

So no longer will the NHL have the best players at all times in the world, just the ones that fit under a hard cap ceiling of 36 ..

No smart guy, it was you doing the , as per usual , cause your heros cant **** & pillage any more.
And pray tell, what league on the planet will be the best after implementation of the cap?
Thought so.
You seem to think that there is some moral obligation by the owners that they shouldnt make a buck, & the players should be the only ones that profit.

 

[Mess]

No smart guy, it was you doing the , as per usual , cause your heros cant **** & pillage any more.
And pray tell, what league on the planet will be the best after implementation of the cap?
Thought so.
You seem to think that there is some moral obligation by the owners that they shouldnt make a buck, & the players should be the only ones that profit.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

I was talking about things like this ..

With the NHL set to unveil a new collective bargaining agreement with tough new limits on entry-level contracts, a source said Wednesday that Crosby has been offered a three-year deal that could be worth as much as $10 million US including a multimillion-dollar signing bonus by the Swiss club.

This the NHL not containing the best players because of the cap ..

Is the cap in any other hockey league in the world .. Is the Russian league implementing a cap so the some Russian teams can't stack up on all-star team ..Nope ..

Myself I am prospect junkie .. I would like to have lots of young players in the Leaf lineup and the restricitve cap plays right into my hand for that ..

A player like Wellwood will never get a better opportunity to prove he is an NHL player with large vet turnover and the cap preventing free spending by my team .. Then I can come back and say told you so ..

 

[GSC2k2*]

a source said Wednesday that Crosby has been offered a three-year deal that could be worth as much as $10 million US including a multimillion-dollar signing bonus by the Swiss club.

Source = Patrick Brisson ...