Olympics vs World Cup

[Nino33]

As I've said before I'd like to watch best-on-best, I don't care whether it's via a World Cup or the Olympics or something else for that matter

Some people love to paint the players as victims and/or the NHL the only problem/reason for issues...I don't see it that way

I get it some worship the Olympics and the Olympics can do no wrong...I'm not one of those people

 

[Nino33]

That was truly terrible. That probably wouldn't have happened, had they brought in all those clean athletes from the NHL where they haven't even banned human growth hormone and where doping control is a complete joke.

State sponsored doping is a big deal, and hurt the image/reputation of the Olympics

 

[Atas2000]

State sponsored doping is a big deal, and hurt the image/reputation of the Olympics

Do you mean the state sponsored doping in the United States?

 

[Lepardi]

State sponsored doping is a big deal, and hurt the image/reputation of the Olympics

Ofcourse. But showcasing players from the NHL from 1998 to 2014 didn't hurt the image at all even though the NHL's PED control is a complete joke. It's perfectly fine for hockey players to take all kinds of PEDs as long as Trump, Obama and Justin Trudeau aren't encouraging them to do it.

Sadly the Finnish Minister of Education and Culture doesn't understand this. Sanni Grahn-Laasonen decided to boycott the World Cup exhibition game Finland vs. Sweden in Helsinki in 2016 when she heard that WADA has no control over the players and they're even allowed to use human growth hormone.

 

[Hanji]

Ofcourse. But showcasing players from the NHL from 1998 to 2014 didn't hurt the image at all even though the NHL's PED control is a complete joke. It's perfectly fine for hockey players to take all kinds of PEDs as long as Trump, Obama and Justin Trudeau aren't encouraging them to do it.

Sadly the Finnish Minister of Education and Culture doesn't understand this. Sanni Grahn-Laasonen decided to boycott the World Cup exhibition game Finland vs. Sweden in Helsinki in 2016 when she heard that WADA has no control over the players and they're even allowed to use human growth hormone.

Plausible deniability. It's this country's mode of operation as it pertains to PED's and the Olympics. It also extends to our professional leagues like the NHL.
Quite the good read:
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/artic...ussia-style-doping-scandal-throwback-thursday

 

[sandysan]

That was truly terrible. That probably wouldn't have happened, had they brought in all those clean athletes from the NHL where they haven't even banned human growth hormone and where doping control is a complete joke.

When they participate, they are subject to the wada controls. Funny how none of them ( except backstrom) got pinched. Funny how that works indeed. I mean its not because they didn't have LC/MS time with all those duplicate black labs they had going.

Are you suggesting that as a condition of participation the NHL players were exempt from pissing into a cup ? Because if that is true, its news to me.

And the NHL as a private league has EVERY right to set their own doping controls and are more than justified to tell WADA that if they don't like it, they can go pound sand. even it if causes dick pound some consternation.

plus this way WADA can continue to imply levels of usage and never be held accountable.

 

[Lepardi]

And the NHL as a private league has EVERY right to set their own doping controls and are more than justified to tell WADA that if they don't like it, they can go pound sand.

I completely agree. I don't mind the fact that NHL players are allowed to use PEDs quite freely, even including human growth hormone. That enables them to better entertain us through the 82-game schedule.

But when NHL fans then start complaining about the immorality of Russian sports, the hypocrisy is through the roof. If they actually cared about the issue of clean sports so much, they certainly wouldn't spend their money on the product the NHL is offering.

I hope Finnish NHLers also get the best drugs money can buy, if that's gonna help the Finnish national team succeed.

 

[sandysan]

I completely agree. I don't mind the fact that NHL players are allowed to use PEDs quite freely, even including human growth hormone. That enables them to better entertain us through the 82-game schedule.

But when NHL fans then start complaining about the immorality of Russian sports, the hypocrisy is through the roof. If they actually cared about the issue of clean sports so much, they certainly wouldn't spend their money on the product the NHL is offering.

I hope Finnish NHLers also get the best drugs money can buy, if that's gonna help the Finnish national team succeed.

I'm sorry, if all of the NHL players are using hGH, then why didnt any of them get pinched ? Are you under the impression that you can't test for exogenous hGH because you most certainly can. Or are you saying that the NHL has some secret back deal with the ioc to NOT test the NHL players ? if that's true why did backstrom get pinched for a massive peak for sudafed ?

And as far as I know, the NHL has never passed samples through a secret hole in the wall where tamper resistant seals were decidedly tampered with and established unacreddited secret ms labs. and when this was pointed out all of the B samples ( which could have exonerated some athletes) were intentionally destroyed. Curious.

And when meldonium was added, its strange how an entire team representing one country ( I will leave it to you to discern which one) suddenly stopped participating. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[IceColdOx]

I love the Olympics, personally, and I think the players do as well. They really go all-out for the Olympic tournament. I know the World Cup is new, but I love the Olympics. I hope they can get back in for China 2022.

 

[sandysan]

I love the Olympics, personally, and I think the players do as well. They really go all-out for the Olympic tournament. I know the World Cup is new, but I love the Olympics. I hope they can get back in for China 2022.

You might want to prepare yourself to be dissappointed.

 

[member 305909]

When the Canada-Cup was still played the Soviets insisted that for them it is just another tournament and for them the IIHF-worlds was the most important tournament.

That must have sounded like a premature excuse for defeat. Besides, I don't believe that their victory of the 1981-tournament didnt feel much sweeter than any of the umpteen victories at the worlds.

 

[Yakushev72]

When the Canada-Cup was still played the Soviets insisted that for them it is just another tournament and for them the IIHF-worlds was the most important tournament.

That must have sounded like a premature excuse for defeat. Besides, I don't believe that their victory of the 1981-tournament didnt feel much sweeter than any of the umpteen victories at the worlds.

It was simply the truth! A World Championship was an official title that conferred with it a certain degree of prestige. The Canada Cup was a summer exhibition series that had no official value. After the 1981 series, the rules regarding refereeing changed to forbid European referees from officiating in Medal Round games. The Canadians (Alan Eagleson) were pretty open about the fact that the rule change was intended to guarantee a Canadian victory. Everyone understood that, and no one had a big problem with it! The Soviets and Czechoslovakia collected a lot of money for participation that they otherwise would not have access to in August and September.

 

[edog37]

With the 2020 World Cup postponed would you rather see NHL players go to the Olympics in 2022 or reschedule the World Cup in 2022?

Easy decision for me. Olympics. I liked seeing the Under 24 North America team but I don't need this Team Europe disguise. It's a joke. Best on best from each country. Feed it to me now.

theBRKDWN Sports – World Cup of Hockey 2020 Cancelled

how about none of the above...

 

[Zine]

When the Canada-Cup was still played the Soviets insisted that for them it is just another tournament and for them the IIHF-worlds was the most important tournament.

That must have sounded like a premature excuse for defeat. Besides, I don't believe that their victory of the 1981-tournament didnt feel much sweeter than any of the umpteen victories at the worlds.

You’re missing the point.

Soviet players might have felt different, but the authorities definitely put more emphasis and importance on IIHF events, primarily the Olympics, because of global exposure. The point was to project dominance to the most people possible.

Sure the Canada Cup was best v best, but outside of Canada and perhaps hockey hotbeds in the US, the tournament relatively ignored globally.

 

[Lepardi]

When the Canada-Cup was still played the Soviets insisted that for them it is just another tournament and for them the IIHF-worlds was the most important tournament.

That must have sounded like a premature excuse for defeat. Besides, I don't believe that their victory of the 1981-tournament didnt feel much sweeter than any of the umpteen victories at the worlds.

Playing in a tournament that's been rigged for the home team makes winning a bit more difficult.

 

[Lepardi]

Are you under the impression that you can't test for exogenous hGH because you most certainly can.

No, I'm not under that impression. Apparently it's not awfully necessary to test for it though, cause the NHL has decided not to ban it. They probably have a reason for not banning hGh. I wonder what that reason might be.

 

[sandysan]

No, I'm not under that impression. Apparently it's not awfully necessary to test for it though, cause the NHL has decided not to ban it. They probably have a reason for not banning hGh. I wonder what that reason might be.

no WADA. If NHL players are on hGH or other substances and they participate in the NHL they would be liable to get pinched. Hell jon jones is STILL testing positive for metabolites of a banned substance AFTER serving 18 months.

if hGH is as rampant as you say in the NHL, when the NHL players were subjected to the same WADA screening as the other athletes, you would expect them to get pinched.

outside of excessive sudafed, it never happened. So two choices, there is some vast conspiracy protecting the NHL players, or perhaps their use of hGH isnt as extensive as you ( and dick pound) imply. either way

 

[sandysan]

Playing in a tournament that's been rigged for the home team makes winning a bit more difficult.

so does playing against teams of drug cheats

 

[Faterson]

Cancel all-star week and bye-week. Start season in mid-September to reduce back-to-backs, etc.

Play World Championships every year in February, except for the Olympic tourney every 4 years, also in February.

Max. number of games: 6. That's not gonna kill anybody. (It's less than one potential play-off round.)

3 group games, round-robin, 4 groups with 4 teams each. Top 2 teams in each group advance to the play-offs.

So, most teams would only get to play 3 games, some 4 games, and the 4 medalists would play 6 games max. Two of those six games will be against minions, so you could call them practice games.

Those would be the true all-star games for the top 16 hockey nations, true best-on-best, every year. None of your gimmicky World Cups with pseudo-teams or that travesty most recently held in San Jose.

 

[Hanji]

no WADA. If NHL players are on hGH or other substances and they participate in the NHL they would be liable to get pinched. Hell jon jones is STILL testing positive for metabolites of a banned substance AFTER serving 18 months.

if hGH is as rampant as you say in the NHL, when the NHL players were subjected to the same WADA screening as the other athletes, you would expect them to get pinched.

outside of excessive sudafed, it never happened. So two choices, there is some vast conspiracy protecting the NHL players, or perhaps their use of hGH isnt as extensive as you ( and dick pound) imply. either way

Anybody can pass a drug test if you’re not stupid.
You wanna know who’s using HGH? Simple. Look at injury recovery time. Telltale sign.

 

[sandysan]

Anybody can pass a drug test if you’re not stupid.
You wanna know who’s using HGH? Simple. Look at injury recovery time. Telltale sign.

Yeah you don't understand lcms
Going by recovery time is idiotic, which is why wada doesn't go with their gut but has objective limits. John Jones is STILL testing for metabolites some nearly 2 years later. They aren't even sure when the drug cheat will even go back to baseline.

If you can tamper with samples in an unaccredited black lab connected by a hole in the wall, it does however get a little bit easier.

And if you pull you entire u18 team from a tournament, I'm sure it's because of the flu or mrsa or something.

Thinking that it's not sensitive or you can mask the trace is so 1980's

 

[Zine]

Yeah you don't understand lcms
Going by recovery time is idiotic, which is why wada doesn't go with their gut but has objective limits. John Jones is STILL testing for metabolites some nearly 2 years later. They aren't even sure when the drug cheat will even go back to baseline.

If you can tamper with samples in an unaccredited black lab connected by a hole in the wall, it does however get a little bit easier.

And if you pull you entire u18 team from a tournament, I'm sure it's because of the flu or mrsa or something.

Thinking that it's not sensitive or you can mask the trace is so 1980's

We were pinched, not because we cheat more than anyone else, but because our system is top down, bloated, bureaucratic and prone to copious levels of sloppiness; like everything Soviet.

For instance the US cheat just as much, they’re just more discrete. More responsibility is given to the individual athlete; hence, like someone mentioned earlier, the program has a built in ‘plausible deniability’. Consequently it’s a method that enabled hundreds of gymnasts to be molested without anyone in the USOC batting an eyelid. The NHL is no different and why they purposely dont test for anything.

 

[Lepardi]

no WADA. If NHL players are on hGH or other substances and they participate in the NHL they would be liable to get pinched. Hell jon jones is STILL testing positive for metabolites of a banned substance AFTER serving 18 months.

if hGH is as rampant as you say in the NHL, when the NHL players were subjected to the same WADA screening as the other athletes, you would expect them to get pinched.

outside of excessive sudafed, it never happened. So two choices, there is some vast conspiracy protecting the NHL players, or perhaps their use of hGH isnt as extensive as you ( and dick pound) imply. either way

Alrighty then. Why isn't hGh on NHL's list of banned substances? Why are NHL players only tested for hGh for a short period of time before and during the Olympics if they take part in the Olympics?

 

[sandysan]

Alrighty then. Why isn't hGh on NHL's list of banned substances? Why are NHL players only tested for hGh for a short period of time before and during the Olympics if they take part in the Olympics?

Because they are a private league and get to implement whatever rules they see fit.

I don't think blood doping is banned by the nhl either, so by your logic lots of players store red blood cells in their fridges?

And the notion that these substances clear 100% in a very short amount of time belies a very poor understanding of pd pk and human physiology ( ie Jon jones)

 

[sandysan]

We were pinched, not because we cheat more than anyone else, but because our system is top down, bloated, bureaucratic and prone to copious levels of sloppiness; like everything Soviet.

For instance the US cheat just as much, they’re just more discrete. More responsibility is given to the individual athlete; hence, like someone mentioned earlier, the program has a built in ‘plausible deniability’. Consequently it’s a method that enabled hundreds of gymnasts to be molested without anyone in the USOC batting an eyelid. The NHL is no different and why they purposely dont test for anything.

Drug cheats and pederasts are now the same?

Good to know.

And I suspect that if someone with a us sports federation showed up an an athletes house with a syringe containing who the hell knows what saying " imma gonna inject you with this" it doesn't go the same way as it does in some countries.

Are there US drug cheats? Probably. Is it systemic and or state sponsored? There's no proof of that.

But for people who tacitly support systemic doping regimes, when has truth every carried any weight?