Value of: Olli Maatta to Toronto

OCPenguin

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
3,146
171
What Would it Take?

Again, why is Pittsburgh trading a top two pairing Dman when its a title contender? When you consider our depth on the blueline, its foolish to deal him unless we are getting something significant back, not a pile of crap Toronto fans want to give.

There is nothing here to see.
 

OCPenguin

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
3,146
171
And why do the Penguins trade Maatta for a mid 1st round pick in a weak 1st round?

and why do the Pens trade Maatta for that considering our depth on D and we are a title contender? Dumb thought it would be a pick coming back.
 

OCPenguin

Registered User
Jan 22, 2013
3,146
171
Gotta love guys shooting down trades when they obviously don't watch our team. The Leafs roster is stacked with talent. Tons of pieces outside of our big three would make great additions to any teams roster.

Stacked with talent? Not on D. Gotta love the people who think Pittsburgh would trade Maatta to Toronto for spare parts, a pick, or crap like Polak considering we are a Cup contender.
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
Maatta advanced stats:

-60.3% GF%, 2.99 GF/60, 1.96 GA/60
-+.14 GF/60 RelTM -.61 GA/60 RelTM, 7.8% GF% RelTM
-31.6% DZS, 32.9% OZS
-.51 points/60, -1.4% CF% RelTM

Mediocre possession stats and offensive stats, but his GF and GA stats are off the charts good. The Penguins as a team are better both offensively (+.14 GF/60) and defensively (a .61 GA/60 lower) when he's on the ice.

Zaitsev:

-51.5% GF%, 2.52 GF/60, 2.38 GA/60
--.38 GF/60 relTM, -.32 GA/60 RelTM, -.4 GF% RelTM
-28.5% OZS, 35.9% DZS
-.89 points/60, -1.8 CF% RelTM

So basically, Zaitsev produces more offensively than Maatta, that's about it. He's very good defensively, but he's not on Maatta's level defensively. He's just as mediocre of a possession player as Maatta is and is a lot worse in terms of goals for and goals against. So how is Zaitsev>>Maatta again?

What is Maatta's QoT/QoC like? Zaitsev has been sorta thrown into the fire as a top pairing dman, he's doing alright at it but in an ideal world he would have been a 2nd pairing guy in his first year - the high level of competition has a big effect on GF%, the high level of QoT has a big effect on all the relatives, harder to positively impact the play of team mates when they're already good
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,407
78,003
Redmond, WA
What is Maatta's QoT/QoC like? Zaitsev has been sorta thrown into the fire as a top pairing dman, he's doing alright at it but in an ideal world he would have been a 2nd pairing guy in his first year - the high level of competition has a big effect on GF%, the high level of QoT has a big effect on all the relatives, harder to positively impact the play of team mates when they're already good

At least statistically, the Penguins 1st pair and 2nd pair have been used against equally as difficult competition. I'd normally use behindthenet, but since they don't track stats like that anymore, I use stats.hockeyanalysis. Here's how Letang (using him since he has played mostly away from Maatta this year) vs Maatta looks in terms of QoC:

Letang: 2.35 OppGF/60, 2.20 OppGA/60, 49.9% OppCF%
Maatta: 2.35 OppGF/60, 2.20 OppGA/60, 50.2% OppCF%

They both play against equal QoC based on goals for and goals against and Maatta plays against marginally tougher competition in terms of CF%.
 

Mersss

Registered User
Jul 12, 2014
4,757
1,955
We need to find a trading partner that is looking for wingers, that's all we have available to trade.

In that case, I can't see the leafs getting that young top pairing D.

They do not have any winger of Taylor Hall's calibre AS OF NOW and, considering the market was set to Adam Larsson (3-4D), I don't see any team giving you what you want bud

Even tho everyone might say that was a horrible trade, market has been set by that trade and every GM will ask for similar deals now
 

Randy Randerson

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
10,637
3,445
Hamilton
At least statistically, the Penguins 1st pair and 2nd pair have been used against equally as difficult competition. I'd normally use behindthenet, but since they don't track stats like that anymore, I use stats.hockeyanalysis. Here's how Letang (using him since he has played mostly away from Maatta this year) vs Maatta looks in terms of QoC:

Letang: 2.35 OppGF/60, 2.20 OppGA/60, 49.9% OppCF%
Maatta: 2.35 OppGF/60, 2.20 OppGA/60, 50.2% OppCF%

They both play against equal QoC based on goals for and goals against and Maatta plays against marginally tougher competition in terms of CF%.

That's interesting, Maatta would be very much a target for the Leafs if he were RH, don't think you guys would be trading him for futures packages like we would be offering while trying to win a cup though
 
Mar 14, 2011
3,828
889
Maatta advanced stats:

-60.3% GF%, 2.99 GF/60, 1.96 GA/60
-+.14 GF/60 RelTM -.61 GA/60 RelTM, 7.8% GF% RelTM
-31.6% DZS, 32.9% OZS
-.51 points/60, -1.4% CF% RelTM

Mediocre possession stats and offensive stats, but his GF and GA stats are off the charts good. The Penguins as a team are better both offensively (+.14 GF/60) and defensively (a .61 GA/60 lower) when he's on the ice.

Zaitsev:

-51.5% GF%, 2.52 GF/60, 2.38 GA/60
--.38 GF/60 relTM, -.32 GA/60 RelTM, -.4 GF% RelTM
-28.5% OZS, 35.9% DZS
-.89 points/60, -1.8 CF% RelTM

So basically, Zaitsev produces more offensively than Maatta, that's about it. He's very good defensively, but he's not on Maatta's level defensively. He's just as mediocre of a possession player as Maatta is and is a lot worse in terms of goals for and goals against. So how is Zaitsev>>Maatta again?

Maata would obviously have a higher GF/60 stat considering the Pens have a stronger offence than the Leafs, plus, GF/60 is a more forward driven stat that it is a Dman stat. Defensively, Maata has a worst CA60relTM and CA60 than Zaitsev (Zaitsev has done a better job at suppressing shot than Maata) but at the same time Maata has a better high danger scoring chance against per 60 minutes than Zaitsev (Maata has done a better job on limiting tough scoring chances), both Dman has been relied on to face the other team's top forwards but Zaitsev has had a bit of a tougher workload than Maata due to Babcock really relying on the Zait-Reilly pairing for the most of the season. IMO, both this 2 Dmen are on the same tier, neither has proven that he is significantly better than the other but the fact that Zaitsev is an RHD and is draft exempt tips the scale on his favor for me.
 

AvroArrow

The way she goes
Jun 10, 2011
17,858
17,942
Toronto
We wouldn't ask for Nylander nor would we accept a first round pick.

We would need an expansion exempt defenseman who is ready to play in the NHL, and, pending on the quality and readiness of said defenseman, an additional pick/prospect.

The ask would be Zaitsev straight up but I know the answer to that so there is no deal to be made

EDIT: I just saw that Zaitzev is 25 years old and is currently playing 3rd pair. I thought he was a few years younger and playing at 3D calibre? (or maybe that was just LeafNation hype) Has something about his play changed in the past few months?

He's playing the 1st pairing, our #2D
 

Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
26,934
23,503
Why would the Pens who are in win now mode, trade their top 4 young D for a pick or a bottom pairing D or a middle 6 winger prospect?

When will we see the end of these Leaf threads wanting top pairing or top 4 D cheap? Top 2 or top 4 D aren't cheap, especially young ones.
 

BHD

Vejmelka for Vezina
Dec 27, 2009
38,124
16,511
Moncton, NB
Most Pens fans will want Nylander and that isn't happening. Considering how the season is going, I would offer up our first round pick which will likely end up 16-22

Except no Pens has actually said anything to indicate that. Most Pens fans, though, would want a capable defenseman back coming back. He's finally realizing his game, even if it's not as high as projected.
 

The CyNick

Freedom of Speech!
Sep 17, 2009
11,364
2,032
We wouldn't ask for Nylander nor would we accept a first round pick.

We would need an expansion exempt defenseman who is ready to play in the NHL, and, pending on the quality and readiness of said defenseman, an additional pick/prospect.

The ask would be Zaitsev straight up but I know the answer to that so there is no deal to be made

EDIT: I just saw that Zaitzev is 25 years old and is currently playing 3rd pair. I thought he was a few years younger and playing at 3D calibre? (or maybe that was just LeafNation hype) Has something about his play changed in the past few months?

You are fake news
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
21,890
6,905
Toronto
Why would the Pens who are in win now mode, trade their top 4 young D for a pick or a bottom pairing D or a middle 6 winger prospect?

When will we see the end of these Leaf threads wanting top pairing or top 4 D cheap? Top 2 or top 4 D aren't cheap, especially young ones.

Indeed, why?
 

LoovTrain

Stanley... Come Home
May 6, 2015
636
143
Toronto
Why would the Pens who are in win now mode, trade their top 4 young D for a pick or a bottom pairing D or a middle 6 winger prospect?

When will we see the end of these Leaf threads wanting top pairing or top 4 D cheap? Top 2 or top 4 D aren't cheap, especially young ones.

Just stop looking...
 

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
51,216
What Would it Take?

Earlier in the year, when the Pens were struggling to score and Toronto needed defensive help anywhere, it would've taken JVR, which is why I understand there may have been (or actually were, but for board purposes, I'll say may have been) discussions about a deal centered around a deal involving those two. Now that the Pens typically are not struggling to score but are having issues defensively and Toronto's more pressing defensive needs are on the right side, I doubt there's a deal to be made unless the Pens deal for a defenseman in another deal.
 

Beauner

Registered User
Jun 14, 2011
13,031
6,132
Pittsburgh
It really isn't. The guy has played 3.5 seasons and has missed 83 games.

He basically missed an entire season with ****ing cancer. then he had a shoulder issue that overlapped. other than that he's been fine. Why don't you inform yourself about the context before you post next time, yeah?
 

Hunter368

RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
Nov 8, 2011
26,934
23,503
I'll repeat myself, why would the Pens even remotely consider trading their young top 4 D, when their in win now mode, for anything short of a massive overpayment?

Any fan here making offers to get him or making fun of Pens fans needs to stop.....think about more then just the Leafs needs and also consider the Pens situation/needs. Not to mention top 4 D are much more valuable then wingers.

Yikes
 

PPenguins724

87 - undisputed best
Mar 25, 2013
455
0
Pittsburgh
Why would the Pens trade Maatta in win-now mode?
Because Maatta's injuries/illnesses [read: cancer and mumps do not make you 'injury-prone'] have put his progression on the back track. He peaks as a low-end top-2 guy, and we know because we saw flashes of such brilliance his rookie year. What's he done wrong? Amid everything, his legs haven't been back to where they were. He's a moveable part because the win-now mentality demands that, if he's in the top-4, he has to be consistent. He can't be counted upon, at least when it's needed, because he hasn't had his game back 100% yet.

Yes, he played well in the SCFs. Totally solid defense, and it's obvious why teams want him. But more often than not, he's had trouble keeping up with the speed of the Penguins in the regular season, and perhaps it's a concern that you don't want to have out of a 3-4D in the playoffs.

Pens are decidedly thin at LW and D--namely PMD.

So, what I'd ask is that the Leafs take Marc Andre Fleury (20% retained) @ 4.6m/y and Olli Maatta for James Van Riemsdyk and Stuart Percy OR Connor Carrick. For Gardiner/Reilly, I'd include Derrick Pouliot and add maybe as much as 10% more salary retention on Fleury. Pouliot is another guy whose development is in flux because the Penguins have had six better defensemen as a product of win-now mode, and he's been stuck (albeit doing very well) in the AHL. He's made errors at the NHL level, and Pittsburgh hasn't had the patience to let him find his way. If need be, I'd talk swapping lower picks to even out whatever playing field needed it.

I know Freddy Andersen is doing well in Toronto, but I think MAF is more trustworthy in the long haul. His play has been very good when he's in the net consistently.

It looks like this:

MAF @ 20% retained
Maatta
for
JVR + Percy OR Carrick

or

MAF at 30% retained
Maatta
Pouliot
for
JVR + Gardiner OR Reilly

What I see is that Toronto gets two higher-end very young defensemen who will have the opportunity to come into form in a young organization and a veteran goaltender with a bit of term left and two cup rings to his name to back the corps, while the Penguins get their impact LW and defense that could likely help now or defensive prospects that could be a better fit for the system.
 

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