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Value of: Olli Maatta to Toronto

Kamiccolo

Kamiccolo

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Sidney the Kidney said:
And now the Pens have a big gaping hole in their top four. How's that 1st round pick helping that, exactly?

I mean, do people even think about the needs of the other team when making proposals?

If there's one area the Pens could do to upgrade it's their defense. So the solution in this thread is to trade a defenseman for a draft pick? :help:
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Won't you have one anyways after the expansion draft?
 
Sidney the Kidney

Sidney the Kidney

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LeafsRockForBabcock said:
Won't you have one anyways after the expansion draft?
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Not necessarily. Depends who the Pens decide to protect.

Also, the Pens are trying to repeat as Cup champs. Who they may end up losing at the expansion draft isn't really as big a concern as icing the best roster this season in order to repeat.

They could always trade Maatta/Schultz/Dumoulin after the season but prior to the expansion draft without making their team weaker during the actual season.
 
m302291

m302291

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Sidney the Kidney said:
This is equally as ignorant as the Pens fan saying Zaitsev is a 3rd pairing defender.
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Smif said:
3D pair, where'd you get that from? He's our on our top pair night in and night out...
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Barilko14 said:
Where did you see 3rd pair? He recently passed Rielly to lead the leafs in TOI. He's actually looking better as the season goes, really starting to skate the puck up himself now, and looking to create more offence, he's approaching good No. 2 level (started as a No. 4).
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Walshy7 said:
He plays on our top pair, with Rielly every game, now Rielly went down they split Gardiner and Zaitsev up to split the 2 only good dmen we have onto 2 different pairs. Not really sure where you got 3rd pair from at all. Also not a chance in hell I trade Zaitsev for Maata. Our 3rd pair is very obviously Hunwick and Polak
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I saw it in the sticky thread about lines and pairings. I guess the pairings aren't in any order, because there he is on the third pairing.

Duly noted, but obviously the Leafs don't have the very specific expendable assets that the Pens would need to give up Maatta
 
Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

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I'm going to start making proposals in this thread based on what Toronto fans are offering in here:

Zaitsev for a 2017 1st
Zaitsev for Kunitz/Daley
Zaitsev for Rust
Zaitsev for Sprong

So which of these would you do?
 
Empoleon8771

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Maatta advanced stats:

-60.3% GF%, 2.99 GF/60, 1.96 GA/60
-+.14 GF/60 RelTM -.61 GA/60 RelTM, 7.8% GF% RelTM
-31.6% DZS, 32.9% OZS
-.51 points/60, -1.4% CF% RelTM

Mediocre possession stats and offensive stats, but his GF and GA stats are off the charts good. The Penguins as a team are better both offensively (+.14 GF/60) and defensively (a .61 GA/60 lower) when he's on the ice.

Zaitsev:

-51.5% GF%, 2.52 GF/60, 2.38 GA/60
--.38 GF/60 relTM, -.32 GA/60 RelTM, -.4 GF% RelTM
-28.5% OZS, 35.9% DZS
-.89 points/60, -1.8 CF% RelTM

So basically, Zaitsev produces more offensively than Maatta, that's about it. He's very good defensively, but he's not on Maatta's level defensively. He's just as mediocre of a possession player as Maatta is and is a lot worse in terms of goals for and goals against. So how is Zaitsev>>Maatta again?
 
Brock Radunske

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SHANNYPLAN said:
What Would it Take?
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No for three reasons.

1. He's a LHD and in my opinion, not better than Rielly or Gardiner.

2. His primary weakness is skating and the Leafs system demands fast, puck-carrying D.

3. He won't be worth the cost to acquire for including but not limited to the above two reasons.
 
Riptide

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ATG said:
Well I didn't start the thread, in terms of needs the Leafs and Pens make bad trading partners. Both teams have holes defensively and in terms of personnel, the blue chip players we have aren't being moved for anything but a legit top 2 defenceman. Only other trade that would make sense would be something around Connor Brown for Maata.
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How does this make sense for Pittsburgh? I'm not even sure where Brown would fit into PITs lineup.
 

Incetardis

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Empoleon8771 said:
What's your evidence for that? Prove it.
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I know other fan bases are getting sick of Leaf fans bragging but honestly watch him play. The guy's a beast and might be our best defenceman this year. Jake has been slightly better offensively but in terms of all around I'd have to say he's been a bit better than Reilly. He's an effortless skater with impressive defensive instincts and has been rushing the puck and creating offense a lot more recently. He is better than Maatta right now.
 
Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

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Incetardis said:
I know other fan bases are getting sick of Leaf fans bragging but honestly watch him play. The guy's a beast and might be our best defenceman this year. Jake has been slightly better offensively but in terms of all around I'd have to say he's been a bit better than Reilly. He's an effortless skater with impressive defensive instincts and has been rushing the puck and creating offense a lot more recently. He is better than Maatta right now.
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I don't think he's a bad player, but the idea that he's better than Maatta just simply isn't supported statistically. Just saying "watch him" doesn't make it true. He's a good defenseman without a doubt, not being better than Maatta doesn't make him a bad defenseman. Maatta is a legitimate #3 defenseman statistically, Zaitsev not being as good as him isn't an insult towards him.
 

Incetardis

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Empoleon8771 said:
I don't think he's a bad player, but the idea that he's better than Maatta just simply isn't supported statistically. Just saying "watch him" doesn't make it true. He's a good defenseman without a doubt, not being better than Maatta doesn't make him a bad defenseman. Maatta is a legitimate #3 defenseman statistically, Zaitsev not being as good as him isn't an insult towards him.
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I get your point but I'm saying Zaitsev is better today than he was even a month ago. I don't think the stats are a fair indicator of his game today because he's improved so much and I think has gotten used to the North American game and his role on a new team. You think Maatta is better but having seen both them play (I'm a bit old school this way) Zaitsev is much more dynamic and extremely sound defensively. We can agree to disagree though. Maatta is a great young player too
 
SEALBound

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Center Ice Scrum said:
How about Maata for Matt Hunwick/ Roman Polak?
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But...but why? Why would the Penguins do that trade? I want to hear your rationale behind it.

Empoleon8771 said:
Maatta advanced stats:

-60.3% GF%, 2.99 GF/60, 1.96 GA/60
-+.14 GF/60 RelTM -.61 GA/60 RelTM, 7.8% GF% RelTM
-31.6% DZS, 32.9% OZS
-.51 points/60, -1.4% CF% RelTM

Mediocre possession stats and offensive stats, but his GF and GA stats are off the charts good. The Penguins as a team are better both offensively (+.14 GF/60) and defensively (a .61 GA/60 lower) when he's on the ice.

Zaitsev:

-51.5% GF%, 2.52 GF/60, 2.38 GA/60
--.38 GF/60 relTM, -.32 GA/60 RelTM, -.4 GF% RelTM
-28.5% OZS, 35.9% DZS
-.89 points/60, -1.8 CF% RelTM

So basically, Zaitsev produces more offensively than Maatta, that's about it. He's very good defensively, but he's not on Maatta's level defensively. He's just as mediocre of a possession player as Maatta is and is a lot worse in terms of goals for and goals against. So how is Zaitsev>>Maatta again?
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They are close. Different styles. Zaitsev is certainly a better skating / PMD but I would take Maatta if the goal was defensive abilities or PK. Different strengths.

Incetardis said:
I get your point but I'm saying Zaitsev is better today than he was even a month ago. I don't think the stats are a fair indicator of his game today because he's improved so much and I think has gotten used to the North American game and his role on a new team. You think Maatta is better but having seen both them play (I'm a bit old school this way) Zaitsev is much more dynamic and extremely sound defensively. We can agree to disagree though. Maatta is a great young player too
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No one is saying Zaitsev is bad. He's not. He's a fantastic young player. So is Maatta though. There's just no support for the Zaitsev >>> Maatta comment. Leafs fans "eye test" is hardly credible when discussion comparable Leafs vs other teams players. I'm you understand that and can appreciate that to some extent.

Re: Maatta to Toronto, I mean...we would need a dman back. Gardiner is about all that would realistic but that's a "why do it?" trade.

I just don't see anything available to facilitate this trade. Unless it was a Kapanen+Rychel for Maatta type trade.
 
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