Player Discussion Oliver Kylington

Discussion in 'Calgary Flames' started by crossbownerf, Jun 24, 2017.

  1. PatrikBerglund Registered User

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    Does he have a future in Calgary/The NHL?

    Seems like Calgary has a super solid defence core right now, so perhaps not? Does he hold any value in a trade?
     
  2. ScrewNHLOfficiating #FreeBennett #CurseofTheSpulll

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    Prospect two-way defenseman with elite puck skills, high-end vision, elite skating, about to start the first year of his ELC... of course he has a future in Calgary.

    I mean if we compare him to TJ Brodie, he's just entering the season in which TJ Brodie played a grand total of 3 NHL games and posted .5 PPG in the AHL while not yet being great defensively. Kylington at 19 might have been as good as Brodie at 20.

    The only question is if he settles as a #3 (Gardiner/Leddy), a #2 (Josi), or can attain that true #1 status (Keith). Speaking of Keith, Duncan Keith didn't make his NHL debut until he was 23 years old. I don't think it's wrong to say that's a sensible timeline for Kylington. Not everybody is an early bloomer and not every early bloomer *cough*Maatta*cough* continues to progress.

    The only reason Calgary would have to trade him would be if a prospect like Alex Nylander or Brock Boeser were coming back our way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  3. Johnny Hoxville The Return of a Legend

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    Yes he does. I think he's an excellent prospect, he needs to get stronger and put his game together, but all the tools are there.
     
  4. Mr Snrub I like the way Snrub thinks!

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    Has a 50/50 shot at becoming the top three guy we'd all like him to be, but I think it's highly unlikely he's not an NHLer at some level.

    That being said, I think he's our most tradeable asset on D right now. I would consider him right now to be roughly the same calibre of prospect as Kulak, the difference being that Kylington holds way more trade value league wide solely because GMs will not be as familiar with Kulak. I think if we see a move to round out our prospect pool in the next year, it will be Kylington going the other way.

    inb4 a dozen consecutive posts ******** on Kulak and complaining that I've turned this into a Kulak thread
     
  5. Dube Dube Doo The calls are coming from inside the house!

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    Oliver Kylington has counted to infinity. Twice.

    Jokes aside, if the Flames sign Stone, I think he has a shot this season on the bottom pairing, platooning in and out depending on the opponent.
     
  6. ScrewNHLOfficiating #FreeBennett #CurseofTheSpulll

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    This is like saying Gaudreau was roughly the same calibre of prospect as Byron.
     
  7. Johnny Hoxville The Return of a Legend

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    :laugh: Yep.
     
  8. MonyontheMoney Registered User

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    He's not as good as some will lead you to believe - especially on this board.

    I think he's a good prospect, with a high ceiling to boot. That said I think it's still pretty likely he ends up as a bottom pair PP guy, or not an NHL'er at all. His tools are very good, yet they still don't guarantee success as good as they are because his flaws are also pretty glaring at this point still.
     
  9. Mr Snrub I like the way Snrub thinks!

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    Kulak has a lot less question marks than Kylington and plays the better all-around game as it currently stands.

    Didn't we already have this argument? :laugh:
     
  10. PatrikBerglund Registered User

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    In terms of the A-D ratings being used to gauge prospects, where is he right now?

    B- ?
     
  11. Mr Snrub I like the way Snrub thinks!

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    Hard to parametricise it down that far. I would say he's a B prospect in terms of total value , if you're thinking about it in terms of stark risk vs reward as a GM. But that doesn't account for the intricacies of his specific game or tell anywhere near the whole story. In two years he might be a blue chip, who knows
     
  12. L13 Registered User

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    Everyone who's saying he's a good prospect is right. The problem is that so are Fox, Andersson and Valimaki, and our top 4 is locked up for the next 3 years. At some point soon at least one of these prospects will be pushed out of the organisation somehow, unless they're all happy to stay in the AHL indefinitely.

    I expect Kylington to be the one who's traded first, to be honest, because he continues to display questionable judgement after two years in Stockton and seems to have been surpassed by Andersson in the eyes of the front office.

    It will be very interesting to see all these guys together at development camp.
     
  13. Calculon unholy acting talent

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    Still arguably the Flames top prospect. His flaws are greatly overstated as if most young defenceman don't fall prey to the same kind of issues, i.e., consistency, maturity, strength, etc. A lot of people seem to struggle with the fact that he was drafted as a long term project in the same vein as Jankowski but because he's been in the system for a while, the shine's worn off and it's off to the next shiny toy.

    The comparison's to Kulak are bizarre because he's obviously a step above. Every organization has a Kulak of their own but prospect's like Kylington are far rarer. Equally unfounded is the idea that because the Flames have Andersson and Fox, they don't need Kylington; they play different sides of the ice and like it or not, that matters to Gulutzan. These guys aren't competing with each for the same roster spots as hard as that is for some people to understand.

    Hard to peg his trade value but it's important to note that Treliving traded up to specifically pick Kylington. So this notion the Flames are actively looking to move Kylington at the first chance they get will continue to be misguided. And especially for a winger of all things; Treliving has repeatedly said he likes to build his teams down the middle, on defence and in net. But this will also continue to be ignored because it's too boring or something and the obsession with wingers will get only get worse when the Flames start next season with Ferland on the top line. Obviously if the value is there, they'd move Kylington but the same could be said for just about any player in any organization.

    The Flames under current management like this thing called depth (also a foreign concept to some around here) and they have it with Kylington and Valimaki, two potential top four left handed defenceman a long time away from needing waivers. But to maximize their value as an asset, they'll have to actually play in the NHL; every organization has prospects so what they most often want is young cost controlled NHL'ers with upside. So over the next couple of years, Kylington, Valimaki and possibly Kulak (if he's still around) will fight for that last left side spot behind Giordano and Brodie. And the beauty of it is that by the time they're looking to be full timers and push into the top four, Brodie will be up for a new contract, which gives management a ton of flexibility with how they want to proceed. They can re-sign Brodie and move one of the younger, cheaper options for a ransom (Jones for Johansen, Larsson for Hall, etc.), they can walk away from Brodie because his demands are too much or he doesn't want to re-sign, or they could even look to move Giordano if they can find a taker for him (aka compliance buyout). The same logic applies to Andersson and Fox (if he signs) as Hamonic has three years left while Hamilton has four.

    Bottom line is yeah, he does have a future in Calgary for the time being and I don't see any of Valimaki, Kylington or Andersson being moved within the next few years. And the only reason Fox isn't included in that group is because he, like Hickey, might not want to sign here.
     
  14. Johnny Hoxville The Return of a Legend

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    To much depth isn't an issue. Our bottom pairing is wide open for the taking and it's the perfect place to shelter these guys. And if someone steals a spot, trade the other older guy for assets.
     
  15. FLAMESFAN Registered User

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    I'm going to give a different take and say if he doesn't greatly improve this season, he may be a longshot to be an NHLer.
    Going into his 3rd season, and he'll get tons of ice time. Hopefully he can hit 40+ points and be better defensively.
     
  16. Lunatik Normal is an illusion.

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    If Kylington can do two things, I think he'll be a top 4 defenseman.

    1. (This is the biggest and likely hardest) He needs to make smarter decisions with the puck, he currently makes far too many that lead to turnovers in the defensive and neutral zones. This could be as simple and him trying to do too much, or perhaps the problem is much larger and it's how he reads the plays, unfortunately we have no way to actually know.

    2. Get stronger.

    Kylington has skating ability that makes most NHLers envious. It can get him and the goalie out of trouble alot. If he reduces the chances he takes and makes the easier plays with the puck, he'll probably push himself into a top 4 role,
     
  17. Johnny GODreau Boom

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    He just turned 20 in may and just finished his 2nd year in the AHL. but he's a longshot to be an NHL'er?..... Mark Jankowski finished his 1 year in the AHL as a 22 year old.. Give the kid some time.
     
  18. Lunatik Normal is an illusion.

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    you also have to remember it's been 2 years as one of the youngest players in the AHL and when strength is a concern, it's easier to exploit him. Most guys his age would be heading into there first AHL season now and will still take a couple years. It's unfair to expect him to develop quicker than those guys just because he was AHL eligible at a younger age.

    I think good example is someone like Gostisbehere, Slavin or Parayko, they never became NHL regulars until their draft plus 4 seasons
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
  19. FLAMESFAN Registered User

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    Read it again man, I said if he doesn't improve by the end of next year. 3 Years is giving time.
    Not every take has to be blushing.
     
  20. FLAMESFAN Registered User

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    I would absolutely expect him to develop quicker than a rookie. He has the experience in the league now, time to make a jump.
     
  21. Johnny GODreau Boom

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    the argument could be made that he's 2 years ahead of development. not to mention he doubled his point totals in his second season.
     
  22. Lunatik Normal is an illusion.

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    You said "greatly improve" actually and no 3 years isn't that long.

    Sure the experience should help some, but those are still prime development years and while experience against bigger players is an asset for him, it has also resulted in probably less ice time and fewer games than he would have had in the WHL if he had been sent to Brandon to play on that championship calibre team.

    Whether he was in the AHL for 2 years or not, he was still a late 2nd round pick and expecting him to accomplish more at a quicker pace than defensemen drafted in that spot or latter is simply unrealistic.
     
  23. ScrewNHLOfficiating #FreeBennett #CurseofTheSpulll

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    He has improved every year in the AHL. You are making it sound like he stagnated or something.

    If we had to throw Kylington out there right now in the NHL, he would be a solid plug that can make some plays.

    But the thing Kylington's critics need to realize is this:

    Kylington plays a style of game that results tons of mistakes be made. It isn't about simplifying that game - it's about understanding how to maximize that game to make plays. The amount of defensemen in the NHL who have the actual skills to pull off what Kylington can with the puck can probably be counted on one hand... Karlsson, Vatanen, Klingberg, Subban. Am I missing someone? Guess what, guys like this aren't supposed to be put on a leash, but their game has to be hones to perfection. There's a reason we gave Gaudreau three years before he finally made the NHL... it's not like he didn't have those hands as a 17 year old. But repetition... reading defenses, reading offenses, knowing WHEN to simplify (which is different from just simplifying)... it takes time. The best skill players in the league outside of generational talents all took time... not just centers like Datsyuk and Kuznetsov and Giroux, but wingers like Drouin and Gaudreau weren't just plug and play. For Kylington, on top he is undergoing the task of learning the most difficult skater position in the sport.

    Kylington is a project.

    That doesn't mean he's a mess.

    It means he plays a type of game that can't just be broken down into "watch Mark Giordano play, and copy that".

    It means that he has to make hundreds more mistakes in the AHL and NOT STOP MAKING THEM - but learn where they do and don't work on his own. He has to play in a league where he won't be benched for every failed dangle (Look at what Gulutzan did to Sam Bennett, vs how the Leafs handled Alex Nylander... although Nylander was just a winger last year which can't be compared to Bennett learning center... but I am on tangent).

    A player like Kylington needs to be kept in the AHL until he dominates that league. This isn't about him not having the floor of a safer prospect, it's about him playing a type of game with a type of ceiling that absolutely needs that AHL development time.

    Kylington may not make the NHL full time until he is 24 years old. But I'd put more money on him being a dominating defensemen at that point, than if we rushed him into the NHL at 20 because he simplified his game.
     
  24. SmellOfVictory Registered User

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    Depends what you mean by future. I don't think Kylington, specifically, has no spot on the Flames, but given their defensive depth there's a good chance one of the D prospects, be it Kylington, Andersson, Fox, or Valimaki, ends up being traded for a forward at some point in the future.
     
  25. wasunder Registered User

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    If he develops into a top 4 defenceman, that will be awful. I can't imagine having a team overloaded with talented defenceman
     

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