GDT: OKC Barons @ Houston Aeros, Sunday 12/16 4:05PM MDT

State of Hockey

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Oct 9, 2006
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I was at the game tonight, so I'll give my opinion in the near future on what I think of certain players.

But I will say this right away: Don't worry. Houston has more depth, and that comes from their very good lifetime AHLers, not future NHLers. The top-end talent on display by Hall, Eberle, and Schultz is on another level. No Wild prospect holds as much skill as any of those three. If the Barons had the depth of Houston, they would be winning these games.

So don't be concerned. The speed advantage of a fresh Barons team is apparent. They were just running out of gas on the final of a 3-in-3. In the end we want to see successful NHL teams, and I liked what I saw from the Oilers side of it.
 

Oilerdiehard

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why? why say it ... when will this stop :cry:

Blame Lemaire for the years of mental abuse and conditioning of opposing fans, especially within the division.

I remember an entire 2 periods when the Wild were up 2-0 at the end of the first period. Minnie would send 1 forward past the center line the entire time and I think they had two or three shots on net the whole time and those came from the Oilers blue line. The Wild just kept dumping it in then stopping, one forward was on the Oil's side of the neutral zone and the other 4 players lined up like a wall along the center line. The Oilers would either be stripped of the puck, have their passes intercepted or have to dump it in, the Wild would rush back pass it quickly to the neutral zone and dump it in again. Then it would start all over again and again and again and again and again and... :laugh:

Even when we won they were usually the most boring wins you ever seen and much less exciting than many of our losses haha. I felt so bad for the Minnesota fans for watching stuff like this all season long and still filling the building.

I have gotten over it, but I can understand I see it too from some Oil fans before every game. Despite the fact that the games now are usually much more exciting and open that stigma is still there. I look forward to games against the Wild now.
 

LordFletcher

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Jun 18, 2012
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Blame Lemaire for the years of mental abuse and conditioning of opposing fans, especially within the division.

I remember an entire 2 periods when the Wild were up 2-0 at the end of the first period. Minnie would send 1 forward past the center line the entire time and I think they had two or three shots on net the whole time and those came from the Oilers blue line. The Wild just kept dumping it in then stopping, one forward was on the Oil's side of the neutral zone and the other 4 players lined up like a wall along the center line. The Oilers would either be stripped of the puck, have their passes intercepted or have to dump it in, the Wild would rush back pass it quickly to the neutral zone and dump it in again. Then it would start all over again and again and again and again and again and... :laugh:

Even when we won they were usually the most boring wins you ever seen and much less exciting than many of our losses haha. I felt so bad for the Minnesota fans for watching stuff like this all season long and still filling the building.

I have gotten over it, but I can understand I see it too from some Oil fans before every game. Despite the fact that the games now are usually much more exciting and open that stigma is still there. I look forward to games against the Wild now.

I understand but come on...

It's been years... several!!!! it's not THAT hard for a casual fan to get this
 

LordFletcher

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Jun 18, 2012
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I was at the game tonight, so I'll give my opinion in the near future on what I think of certain players.

But I will say this right away: Don't worry. Houston has more depth, and that comes from their very good lifetime AHLers, not future NHLers. The top-end talent on display by Hall, Eberle, and Schultz is on another level. No Wild prospect holds as much skill as any of those three. If the Barons had the depth of Houston, they would be winning these games.

So don't be concerned. The speed advantage of a fresh Barons team is apparent. They were just running out of gas on the final of a 3-in-3. In the end we want to see successful NHL teams, and I liked what I saw from the Oilers side of it.

I would say both teams have the equal amount of "future NHLers" on the ice tonight.

Granlund easily deserves to be mentioned with Hall and Schultz.

"No Wild prospect holds as much skill as any of those three" :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

nullterm

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Dec 8, 2007
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Our 2013 picks are borderline worthless with decertification looming.

It's frightening to think of how fast all that "progress" will be flushed down the crapper if all contracts are voided. We'll be right back to the 90's ham n eggers just trying to tread water.

I'll be done with the NHL if it happens and the Oil roster is nuked.
 

Replacement*

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Once again beaten by a better run club.

Seems like people get pretty excited when we kick the snot out of a horrible club like the Rampage, easily the worst team in the AHL, but tonight again against a reasonable club they can't get it done.
 

tiger_80

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Apr 11, 2007
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Once again beaten by a better run club.

Seems like people get pretty excited when we kick the snot out of a horrible club like the Rampage, easily the worst team in the AHL, but tonight again against a reasonable club they can't get it done.

OKC is also full of young players, especially on the blue-line, while the veterans do not fill their roles well (Plante, Henry, Ringwald, Zahn have been pretty pathetic).
 

puckfan13

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Jan 18, 2010
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Once again beaten by a better run club.

Seems like people get pretty excited when we kick the snot out of a horrible club like the Rampage, easily the worst team in the AHL, but tonight again against a reasonable club they can't get it done.

I don't really care about useless results like you, as long as the game grades for our actual NHL roster players is high. Development>winning, although they aren't mutually exclusive. But if I see continue development/good play I'm not going to be that worried about losing the third game in three nights.

I'm pretty sure it's just the first time a lot of people have ever watched AHL hockey and your expectations are way out of whack.
 

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I don't really care about useless results like you, as long as the game grades for our actual NHL roster players is high. Development>winning, although they aren't mutually exclusive. But if I see continue development/good play I'm not going to be that worried about losing the third game in three nights.

I'm pretty sure it's just the first time a lot of people have ever watched AHL hockey and your expectations are way out of whack.

After the first period we were outshot 31-10 by a team that has beat us 5/6games now. We were also outshot in the first period. SOG were 46-20. Is this acceptable to you? In what way did you see good play tonight?

We got our ***** handed to us all night and the scoreline was kind against a club we haven't had an answer for all season.

We're dressing an AHL allstar team and this is what we're getting? A team thats .500 in the AHL approaching Xmas.
 

Bryanbryoil

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Sep 13, 2004
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Well I hope that doesn't happen any time soon but it eventually (very soon) will. the Wild / Aero's can't keep this going forever against you guys, can they ???? :sarcasm:

I am scared with how good Schultz is. The kid just keeps producing and I see no stop in that anytime soon.

as for the HF poll on Murray or Schultz, I would take Schultz all day! What a lucky pick up, congrats!

Your team seems to get up for us and play us tough, good on them. Coyle had his best game against us in some time, he made a couple of really good passes tonight IMO which is nice to see for his progress since I've already seen the power forward side to him. Do you guys have any NHL plans for Palmieri? I know that he hasn't really stuck anywhere, but he does have an intriguing mix of size and skill IMO.

why? why say it ... when will this stop :cry:

When we start beating you :naughty: :sarcasm:

After the first period we were outshot 31-10 by a team that has beat us 5/6games now. We were also outshot in the first period. SOG were 46-20. Is this acceptable to you? In what way did you see good play tonight?

We got our ***** handed to us all night and the scoreline was kind against a club we haven't had an answer for all season.

We're dressing an AHL allstar team and this is what we're getting? A team thats .500 in the AHL approaching Xmas.

They have definitely given us fits all year, if you haven't seen the shot differentials that I posted in the previous page of the thread they are worth looking at. Very few players should be able to look themselves in the mirror tonight and tell themselves that they gave a good effort today. And the 3 in 3 stuff is fine and dandy, but Houston did the same and they also had to travel yesterday just like we did.
 

The Perfect Human*

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After the first period we were outshot 31-10 by a team that has beat us 5/6games now. We were also outshot in the first period. SOG were 46-20. Is this acceptable to you? In what way did you see good play tonight?

We got our ***** handed to us all night and the scoreline was kind against a club we haven't had an answer for all season.

We're dressing an AHL allstar team and this is what we're getting? A team thats .500 in the AHL approaching Xmas.

Thats the hall-mark of a team unable to control the flow of the game. For all the talk we have about guys like Schultz/Hall being able to "control" the pace of the game our team gets dominated by teams led by 3rd/4th-line like players.

As good as our kids are, they aren't tenacious enough without the puck. With the puck they're amazing, but they don't want the puck enough when it's gone to make plays necessary to control the game.

Players like Datsyuk/Richards/Kesler, or even Peverley/Hansen, when their team doesn't have the puck, they are working 120% to make sure they get it back and prevent any high-percentage opportunities for the opposition. That's why teams like Detroit/Boston/Vancouver frequently out-shoot their opponents and control pace of play.

Some of that comes from the defense, as having Dmen who know what to do with the puck when they retrieve it is key to starting a breakout and consolidating possession (J.Schultz/Whitney/Petry). Additionally, having defenseman that can effectively separate their man from the puck is key (Smid, N.Schultz). I think we're okay in that facet.

The problem for me is at forward, we don't have forwards that WANT the puck enough. The only ones off the top of my head are Belanger/Horcoff/Paajarvi (slightly above average) and Smyth/Jones/Petrell (average). Our top-6 features no one that will work hard to retrieve the puck, and it's why once we lose possession, that puck is prone to turn into an opposition shot.
 

Arpeggio

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Jul 20, 2006
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The top line isn't getting dominated by AHLers, they're all at the top of the league in scoring. I'd consider all of the kids as pretty tenacious on the forecheck. They all have breakdowns defensively, but that's to be expected at this age.
 

The Perfect Human*

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The top line isn't getting dominated by AHLers, they're all at the top of the league in scoring. I'd consider all of the kids as pretty tenacious on the forecheck. They all have breakdowns defensively, but that's to be expected at this age.

That tenacious needs to extend into the neutral/defensive zones as well though...
 

OF17

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Dec 2, 2007
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en France
After the first period we were outshot 31-10 by a team that has beat us 5/6games now. We were also outshot in the first period. SOG were 46-20. Is this acceptable to you? In what way did you see good play tonight?

We got our ***** handed to us all night and the scoreline was kind against a club we haven't had an answer for all season.

We're dressing an AHL allstar team and this is what we're getting? A team thats .500 in the AHL approaching Xmas.

EDIT: I see what you're getting at now. Periods 2 and 3 = 31.

9 shots in the final two periods is not enough though. This team badly needs a veteran, top-4 LHD and a veteran skill forward with some size. Marincin-Henry had fits tonight, as did Teubert, and the secondary scoring is almost non-existant. I bet Nelson prays every night that the NHL continues its madness.
 

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They have definitely given us fits all year, if you haven't seen the shot differentials that I posted in the previous page of the thread they are worth looking at. Very few players should be able to look themselves in the mirror tonight and tell themselves that they gave a good effort today. And the 3 in 3 stuff is fine and dandy, but Houston did the same and they also had to travel yesterday just like we did.

Yeah I saw it, excellent post. Just wondering if you did the splits manually or if you got it from somewhere. I'd like to run some stats on how the club has done against teams ahead of them in the standings. My suspicion is not too well just going off memory.

As far as Houston they had to play the checkers the last couple nights which are much more of a test than the futile rampage. So if any team had a right to be tired its the Aeros.
 

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EDIT: I see what you're getting at now. Periods 2 and 3 = 31.

9 shots in the final two periods is not enough though. This team badly needs a veteran, top-4 LHD and a veteran skill forward with some size. Marincin-Henry had fits tonight, as did Teubert, and the secondary scoring is almost non-existant. I bet Nelson prays every night that the NHL continues its madness.

The D has looked bad this year, no question, but some of these guys looked OK last year didn't they?

I see a lot of problems with odd man situations, being outnumbered in areas, and lack of puck support. Precisely the kind of things you spot when a team not playing a system is up against a club playing its game all over the ice. You can have all the talent in the world (as we're seeing) and still find ways to lose against a better team game. Lets be clear here the Aeros tilted the ice at some point in this game and we didn't have an answer. I'm amazed it went to shootout.

Thing is this team isn't playing any kind of a game that would actually help out the D. When you have normal D you run a Mactavish like break out. Simple, easy, set routine stuff that any normal guy can execute. Jason Smith and Steve Staios had their best ever years by a country mile playing under Mactavish. They never looked anything like it anywhere else.

Is this D really this bad or is it that theres just no focus with this club on D?

I know what my answer is.
 

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Thats the hall-mark of a team unable to control the flow of the game. For all the talk we have about guys like Schultz/Hall being able to "control" the pace of the game our team gets dominated by teams led by 3rd/4th-line like players.

As good as our kids are, they aren't tenacious enough without the puck. With the puck they're amazing, but they don't want the puck enough when it's gone to make plays necessary to control the game.

Players like Datsyuk/Richards/Kesler, or even Peverley/Hansen, when their team doesn't have the puck, they are working 120% to make sure they get it back and prevent any high-percentage opportunities for the opposition. That's why teams like Detroit/Boston/Vancouver frequently out-shoot their opponents and control pace of play.

Some of that comes from the defense, as having Dmen who know what to do with the puck when they retrieve it is key to starting a breakout and consolidating possession (J.Schultz/Whitney/Petry). Additionally, having defenseman that can effectively separate their man from the puck is key (Smid, N.Schultz). I think we're okay in that facet.

The problem for me is at forward, we don't have forwards that WANT the puck enough. The only ones off the top of my head are Belanger/Horcoff/Paajarvi (slightly above average) and Smyth/Jones/Petrell (average). Our top-6 features no one that will work hard to retrieve the puck, and it's why once we lose possession, that puck is prone to turn into an opposition shot.

Yeah, sing it, we're seeing the same things. I didn't get to watch the Eberle 5pt game but it reminds me that Omark had 5pts in an AHL game last year so not sure how much to read into it. The Rampage as mentioned are a **** opponent. Just on hilites:
First goal Eberle scores high, wouldn't beat many NHL goalies from that range. Second goal a complete joke as Eberle skates right by his check, who gives him a slight tap, before potting the cross ice feed(beauty pass by Arcobello) Then the tip in is nice, and thats a goal that could be scored at NHL level. Then theres the empty net.

What I haven't liked in Eberles game particularly is in close checking games he spends an awful lot of the time without the puck and without being able to get the puck. As much as we all love RNH and Eberle in the real tight checking affairs playing good teams they do a lot of chasing after the puck. Its consistently Hall in my mind that rises to that next level in the tough games we need him to. Of any of out players he's consistently ready for the next challenge. Eberle is much more meteoric. Just brilliant on some nights and where is he on others. There was a couple games last week where you could barely tell Eberle was out on the ice. You NEVER get that with Hall.
 

CupofOil

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Once again beaten by a better run club.

Seems like people get pretty excited when we kick the snot out of a horrible club like the Rampage, easily the worst team in the AHL, but tonight again against a reasonable club they can't get it done.

The blueline just isn't good enough. One NHLer who is struggling defensively as a rookie, another rookie in Marincin who is struggling big time, some AHLers and some ECHLers who are playing in the AHL. They are also slow outside of Schultz and Marincin, Fedun is clearly not fully recovered from the femur injury. It's no wonder that the team constantly coughs up 3rd period leads.
The positive is that results are really secondary IMO to development and all the key components who will be long time Oilers (RNH, Eberle, Hall, Schultz, Hartikainen) are all playing well so i'm not concerned.
 

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The blueline just isn't good enough. One NHLer who is struggling defensively, a rookie in Marincin who is struggling big time, some AHLers and some ECHLers who are playing in the AHL. They are also slow outside of Schultz and Marincin, Fedun is clearly not fully recovered from the femur injury. It's no wonder that the team constantly coughs up 3rd period leads.
The positive is that results are really secondary IMO to development and all the key components who will be long time Oilers (RNH, Eberle, Hall, Schultz, Hartikainen) are all playing well so i'm not concerned.

Read my points a couple posts above. We're not playing the type of game that helps out our D in anyway. Theres several ways to assist an average D and aid the transition, puck support, own zone presence, NZ presence. We're doing very little of that. We're getting caught always and then wondering why Chris Pronger and Willy Mitchell aren't back there..

Consistently in game threads Schultz is not getting critiqued for his defensive play. This is a guy that reads the game and anticipates better than anybody we've seen in his position in years. If you see a guy like this "struggling" you have good indication that the whole team game is ****ed and that anybody that isn't at Schultz's level is going to look like they're drowning.

To make matters worse we're running the type of game where we are asking the D to consistently pinch, jump in the offence, carry the puck, and support the forwards. Any logical thought would be that the D on this club need more support than the forwards. But in this gameplan the D are being stretched to foster the offence and any other priority (GA) be damned.
We're playing run and gun nearly always and good team systems are beating us on most nights.
 

Worraps

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Oct 23, 2011
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That tenacious needs to extend into the neutral/defensive zones as well though...

It really doesn't at this point. RNH, Eberle, Hall, and Schultz are tasked with creating a lot more scoring chances than they give up. They are currently succeeding beyond any reasonable expectation.

If this team ever makes it to the playoffs the elite offensive players will have to raise their intensity in the defensive zone; in the regular season that job resides with the Paajarvis, Landers, Pitlicks, and Hamiltons of the world.
 

CupofOil

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Read my points a couple posts above. We're not playing the type of game that helps out our D in anyway. Theres several ways to assist an average D and aid the transition, puck support, own zone presence, NZ presence. We're doing very little of that. We're getting caught always and then wondering why Chris Pronger and Willy Mitchell aren't back there..

Consistently in game threads Schultz is not getting critiqued for his defensive play. This is a guy that reads the game and anticipates better than anybody we've seen in his position in years. If you see a guy like this "struggling" you have good indication that the whole team game is ****ed and that anybody that isn't at Schultz's level is going to look like they're drowning.

To make matters worse we're running the type of game where we are asking the D to consistently pinch, jump in the offence, carry the puck, and support the forwards. Any logical thought would be that the D on this club need more support than the forwards. But in this gameplan the D are being stretched to foster the offence and any other priority (GA) be damned.
We're playing run and gun nearly always and good team systems are beating us on most nights.

I agree on the last part and it's something i've noticed a lot of especially lately. I don't mind the idea of attacking and trying to build on the lead and in fact, i prefer it to sitting on the lead but the D also have to be smart at the same time and pick their spots. Schultz and afford to pinch because he's quick enough to get back and cover his position but when guys like Teubert, Henry and Deck are pinching then there are going to be problems because more times than not, they will get caught up ice.

I just think that the D is poorly constructed. For the most part, they are slow and have a low Hockey IQ. I don't see a problem with the forwards helping out in the D zone, they almost have to because the D is horrible at separating the opposing forwards from the puck. The problem with the collapsing forwards is that it leaves the point wide open so the opposition is able to get a lot of shots to the net with traffic in front.
I'm not a fan of collapsing defense, i prefer pressure defense to prevent the opposing defense from having free reign to pass the puck around.
With all this being said, if they even protected half of these 3rd period leads like a normal team would, the record would look a lot better and we wouldn't be having this conversation about them underachieving.
 

rynryn

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There's a reason you hear coaches and GMs often name-dropping two-way forwards as underrated--They aren't as explosive and dynamic as offensive forwards but they can be just as valuable if not moreso over the course of a season. Both the Barons and the Aeros lack anything resembling proper defense so it falls on the forwards to do a lot of that work and the Oilers' picks aren't as suited for that. I don't know how you keep a hold of all these guys while you wait for defensive help, though, so the team(s) either have to play a different system or shuffle the deck a little and get a Johan Larsson or two. Barons and Oilers are frightening on the rush but away from the puck there just isn't a whole lot to fear. And you saw the Aeros' flaw last night too...That many shots on goal and look at the score. That was as much a demonstration of lack of snipers as it was solid goaltending.
At any rate, Oilers/Wild games should be interesting in the future--I think though that re-alignment is going to follow the CBA fairly quickly and just as things are starting to look fun we'll end up in different divisions.
 

joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Once again beaten by a better run club.

Seems like people get pretty excited when we kick the snot out of a horrible club like the Rampage, easily the worst team in the AHL, but tonight again against a reasonable club they can't get it done.

Once again you appear after a loss. Where were you when they were winning?
 

joestevens29

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Apr 30, 2009
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Never watched the games, but couple things that stood out to me while reading the comments and game reports.

- Hall and Eberle being tossed around at times. Is there no super heavy that maybe wants to make a good name with kids so that if the NHL ever comes back maybe the kids recommend said fighter to ST and company?

- Arcobello seems to fit well with talented players, shouldn't be a shocker to anyone though. Hopefully he stays with a Hall or Eberle once RNH is back.

- Concern, take Eberle out, where is OKC this weekend?
 

Worraps

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Oct 23, 2011
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There's a reason you hear coaches and GMs often name-dropping two-way forwards as underrated--They aren't as explosive and dynamic as offensive forwards but they can be just as valuable if not moreso over the course of a season. Both the Barons and the Aeros lack anything resembling proper defense so it falls on the forwards to do a lot of that work and the Oilers' picks aren't as suited for that. I don't know how you keep a hold of all these guys while you wait for defensive help, though, so the team(s) either have to play a different system or shuffle the deck a little and get a Johan Larsson or two. Barons and Oilers are frightening on the rush but away from the puck there just isn't a whole lot to fear. And you saw the Aeros' flaw last night too...That many shots on goal and look at the score. That was as much a demonstration of lack of snipers as it was solid goaltending.
At any rate, Oilers/Wild games should be interesting in the future--I think though that re-alignment is going to follow the CBA fairly quickly and just as things are starting to look fun we'll end up in different divisions.

The sentiment that the "Oilers' kids" are somehow the problem causing the Barons to lose is absurd bordering on delusional. However you view their "two way play" I am reasonably sure that if you could magically give all six players unlimited amounts of stamina a line of Hall-RNH-Eberle would outscore a line of Zucker-Granlund-Coyle 9 times out of ten, even with the Barons gaffe prone defense. The Barons' problems start every time one of the kids steps off the ice.

Eberle and Schultz are +13 (RNH and Hall would likely be around that number if they played as many games). According to Staples compiling of scoring chances they are creating a lot more offense than they give up.

The Barons have the same problem that the Oilers do: the supporting cast can't score and the defensemen are prone to gaffes.
 

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