Post-Game Talk: Oilers win 6-4

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
So which RWer do you intend on shipping out? Because none of the current ones are bottom 6 material.

Obviously I would ship none out. Theres nothing wrong at all in having all of them, in having scoring depth, of having players like Hemsky and Yak that can break a nothing play all on thier own and regardless of who they are playing with.

I'm stunned why people think scoring depth is such a great problem to have that we must get rid of at the first available opportunity.

Scoring talent is good, when you get it or have it you should retain it. Its the hardest to find stock in hockey.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
so weird after a win that we are talking about trading everything.

Oh indeed it is. After two wins and 3pts out of the playoffs somehow we MUST firesale because we're never ever getting better ever because you know, players don't improve, Gagner don't improve MPS don't improve, Hall don't improve, Eberle don't improve, Hemsky don't improve..

Excepting that they do and that a young team can improve.

Staying the course. What a concept.
 

tiger_80

Registered User
Apr 11, 2007
8,921
1,667
Its amazing to me that you don't see the error and foolishness of trading one of our key useful players for years for whatever dreck Tambo could muster up at the bargaining table. Especially after watching the game last night.

If ever there was a timing moment of "whooops", Hemsky displayed that for all his detractors last night. But I guess trade Hemsky is the latest game in town.

Last I checked theres nothing wrong with having balanced scoring on either wing and having an abundance of seasoned talent. Why you think we have to jettison a skilled player because we have Eberle and Yak is beyond me. Hemsky is willing to play different assignments, is happy here, and why not let him.

This is an org that has accrued and retained precious little vet talent and the answer on the fan boards it to trade away the diminished amount of what we have.

Consider this. What actually happens to "team concept" when there is in fact no team, when your lineup is a continual turnstile with a very small vet nucleus of guys that have battled here for awhile.

Rebuilding the team every year and setting fire to everything and getting rid of players that are skilled isn't the answer. Unless what your trying to attain is fractured anarchy in a team sport. Do people even pay attention for one second that player lineage in jersey actually matters, that it actually has value.

I would agree with you generally, except for one thing. The Oilers need more balance in the top 6. If they can sign a solid fee agent in the off-season to fill the void, I would be all up for keeping Hemsky. If not, something has to give--and, IMHO, it's either Hemsky or Gagner who has to go in a trade.
The problem is, of course, that the embarrassment who's managing the club will never be able to complete a good trade. But that's another story.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
Good lord. You keep them all.

How the hell do hockey fans lament a surplus of top-6 forwards?!? You bloody well groom and nurture and support and develop your prospects for years and years and years in the hope that they become top-6 players! You don't trade them away to fill your bottom-6! You sign bottom-6 players during the summer, or trade other bottom-6ers for them! Talent acquisition and retention! It's not difficult to comprehend!

C'mon man!

Apparently I am still rational. I was starting to wondering..;)
 

Conkanen*

Guest
Obviously I would ship none out. Theres nothing wrong at all in having all of them, in having scoring depth, of having players like Hemsky and Yak that can break a nothing play all on thier own and regardless of who they are playing with.

I'm stunned why people think scoring depth is such a great problem to have that we must get rid of at the first available opportunity.

Scoring talent is good, when you get it or have it you should retain it. Its the hardest to find stock in hockey.

Hemsky signed a 2 yr - 5 mil contract. How much do you think he will be asking for next year? in UFA?

Nobody is saying scoring depth is a "great problem". That's a strawman argument. I am trying to look at the big picture. We have 3 Right wingers on the team. DO you think paying guys 5 mill/yr ( only going to go up) to play on the 3rd line is the best use of resources?

Disclaimer: I love Ales Hemsky.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
I would agree with you generally, except for one thing. The Oilers need more balance in the top 6. If they can sign a solid fee agent in the off-season to fill the void, I would be all up for keeping Hemsky. If not, something has to give--and, IMHO, it's either Hemsky or Gagner who has to go in a trade.
The problem is, of course, that the embarrassment who's managing the club will never be able to complete a good trade. But that's another story.

The "need" angle has been invented here. Largely a result of looking specifically at Boston, LA, and thinking this is the only, ever, means to success. Which is the first fiction invoked.

The next fiction being that we are, and always will be, small up front. Hall and Yak are both future power forwards and Make a similarly aged Mark Messier look weak and ineffective. Hall and Yak give us a size tandem that even the best ever Oiler team didn't often have going for it.

Look at a club like Chicago. At one point weren't they somewhat small up front in topsix? But being that they're good guys like Hossa and Sharp chase in to fill out a roster. Who's to say stuff like that would never happen when we need it.

Lets worry about size intangibles when its time to contend for anything. lets focus now on retaining talent and building a talented club that will be attractive for good players to join.

One of the things that commonly gets forgotten is that any player agent is always kicking stones around teams that look like they could be the next high flying scoring thing. Because contract evaluation is largely based on pts obtained. Especially in the case of forwards. The same players that won't want to go to STL or Nashville or Phoenix will soon enough WANT to come here.

We already saw this with Justin.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
Hemsky signed a 2 yr - 5 mil contract. How much do you think he will be asking for next year? in UFA?

Nobody is saying scoring depth is a "great problem". That's a strawman argument. I am trying to look at the big picture. We have 3 Right wingers on the team. DO you think paying guys 5 mill/yr ( only going to go up) to play on the 3rd line is the best use of resources?

Disclaimer: I love Ales Hemsky.

Its a great use of resources that I'm not paying for, and Katz can easily afford, and on a club, at a time, where cap issues don't exist.

Hemsky may not be here as part of our contending cast. Thats fair, but right now he's here as one of our attractive cast. If you're the Oilers what you want to do is build a sexy looking high flying team that agents will want to sign with. You do that by having talent depth and players that put up regular hilite reels like Hemsky.

Really its odd that Jagr didn't sign with us. That could easily have occurred this season. What would we be missing then? But it is the type of signing that WILL likely occur when we are at the cusp.
 

Conkanen*

Guest
Its a great use of resources that I'm not paying for, and Katz can easily afford, and on a club, at a time, where cap issues don't exist.

Really? So we just ignore the salary cap exists and pay 3rd line Right Wingers what they want? Cool.
 

Matt Ryan

Falcons Rise Up
Oct 4, 2011
3,185
0
San Francisco
Really? So we just ignore the salary cap exists and pay 3rd line Right Wingers what they want? Cool.

Well considering we are nowhere near the salary cap for this year and the next, I don't see why it's relevant. It's a cap, not a requirement, and it's not our money.
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
Really? So we just ignore the salary cap exists and pay 3rd line Right Wingers what they want? Cool.

That an unreasonable response. Cap is no issue right now, Cap is no issue during the duration of Hemskys contract. Its only an issue if the club decides to retain Hemsky beyond that contract and if Hemsky doesn't want to negotiate a value contract to remain here.

It isn't an issue right now and its fair for me to say that.
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
41,656
30,055
Ontario
We have $20M next season to sign Gagner, Paajarvi, Smid, some NHL defensemen and a back-up goalie.

If we draft top4 and get Dekeyser, that's another couple of +$3M contracts.

Cap space could disappear pretty quick next season.
 

misfit

5-14-6-1
Feb 2, 2004
16,307
2
just north of...everything
$20M - $3.5 (Smid) - $5M (Gagner) = $11.5M.

If all you need to sign after that is Paajarvi ($2.5M-ish at the high end), a backup goalie ($2M max) and some depth D, $11.5M should be plenty.

Dekeyser, if we even get him, should not be on the NHL roster, nor do I think they should be offering him a rookie max deal. Even if we draft top 3, I'd like to see that player back in junior as well. It's bad enough we will be going with one rookie defenseman (at this point it looks like Klefbom will be in the opening night roster) while having a sophomore in the top 4, I'd hate to see us with 2.
 

OilerTyler

Disgruntled
Jul 5, 2009
16,918
8,345
Edmonton
I'm not sure how people can look at our embarrassing group of veterans (especially on offence) and say that trading away one of the two veterans that actually contributes on offence is a priority.

Good teams have good veterans.
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
41,656
30,055
Ontario
$20M - $3.5 (Smid) - $5M (Gagner) = $11.5M.

If all you need to sign after that is Paajarvi ($2.5M-ish at the high end), a backup goalie ($2M max) and some depth D, $11.5M should be plenty.

Dekeyser, if we even get him, should not be on the NHL roster, nor do I think they should be offering him a rookie max deal. Even if we draft top 3, I'd like to see that player back in junior as well. It's bad enough we will be going with one rookie defenseman (at this point it looks like Klefbom will be in the opening night roster) while having a sophomore in the top 4, I'd hate to see us with 2.

We're going to need more than depth defesemen.

It'll be a complete failure if we go into next season with a top 4 of Smid-Petry, Klefbom/Schultz-Schultz.
 

The Perfect Human*

Guest
The "need" angle has been invented here. Largely a result of looking specifically at Boston, LA, and thinking this is the only, ever, means to success. Which is the first fiction invoked.

The next fiction being that we are, and always will be, small up front. Hall and Yak are both future power forwards and Make a similarly aged Mark Messier look weak and ineffective. Hall and Yak give us a size tandem that even the best ever Oiler team didn't often have going for it.

Look at a club like Chicago. At one point weren't they somewhat small up front in topsix? But being that they're good guys like Hossa and Sharp chase in to fill out a roster. Who's to say stuff like that would never happen when we need it.

Lets worry about size intangibles when its time to contend for anything. lets focus now on retaining talent and building a talented club that will be attractive for good players to join.

One of the things that commonly gets forgotten is that any player agent is always kicking stones around teams that look like they could be the next high flying scoring thing. Because contract evaluation is largely based on pts obtained. Especially in the case of forwards. The same players that won't want to go to STL or Nashville or Phoenix will soon enough WANT to come here.

We already saw this with Justin.

Lots of falsehoods here. The only small player that they've had in their top-6 is Patrick Kane. Patrick Sharp is 6'1, 200lb. Hossa is a beastly 6'2 220lb player, while Toews is 6'2, 210lb.

And let's not forget the wingers these guys play with. Saad is 200lb, Stalberg is 210lb. Havlat when they had him was 220lb.

Trust me, we literally are small.

Even Detroit had some big wingers to go with their abnormally strong "small" centers in Zetter/Dats. Cleary, Franzen, Holmstrom, Samuelsson - all big guys.
 

Conkanen*

Guest
Of all the pro-keep-Hemsky people I have yet to read what they think the long term plan should be. Its fine to say you want him on the team going forward but at what cost? The guy has played 22, 42, 36 games in the last 3 full seasons and played over 80 games once in his career. He has dynamic skill no doubt but we have that covered in spades from the RW position alone going forward.

So again, somebody tell me what exactly should the Oilers do with Hemsky in a tad more detail than just "keep him"?
 

Replacement*

Checked out
Apr 15, 2005
48,856
2
Hiking
Lots of falsehoods here. The only small player that they've had in their top-6 is Patrick Kane. Patrick Sharp is 6'1, 200lb. Hossa is a beastly 6'2 220lb player, while Toews is 6'2, 210lb.

And let's not forget the wingers these guys play with. Saad is 200lb, Stalberg is 210lb. Havlat when they had him was 220lb.

Trust me, we literally are small.

Even Detroit had some big wingers to go with their abnormally strong "small" centers in Zetter/Dats. Cleary, Franzen, Holmstrom, Samuelsson - all big guys.

Seemingly you missed where I specifically stated that Chicago attracted players like Sharp and Hossa to fill up the size in the lineup.

Either Hall or Yak will be more physically difficult players to play against then Kane and Toews.

Theres no reason that we can't attract bigger skilled players to our lineup when the time comes. As happened for Chicago. You don't seem to follow the point I'm making with that.

A guy like Robert Lang or Havlat isn't impossible to find if you are an attractive team for players to sign with. Hossa or Sharp being more important fishes but also possible to teams to attract. Sharp was such a key addition.
 
Last edited:

shoop

Registered User
Jul 6, 2008
8,333
1,911
Edmonton
$20M - $3.5 (Smid) - $5M (Gagner) = $11.5M.

If all you need to sign after that is Paajarvi ($2.5M-ish at the high end), a backup goalie ($2M max) and some depth D, $11.5M should be plenty.

Dekeyser, if we even get him, should not be on the NHL roster, nor do I think they should be offering him a rookie max deal. Even if we draft top 3, I'd like to see that player back in junior as well. It's bad enough we will be going with one rookie defenseman (at this point it looks like Klefbom will be in the opening night roster) while having a sophomore in the top 4, I'd hate to see us with 2.

They have 20.9M in cap room right now.

Don't forget the compliance buyouts. There are two we can use.

1. Horcoff. No question, Horcoff. His contract is 8.5% of the cap next year. Has to go. Saves the team $5.5 M. Cap room $26.4M.

2. Nick Schultz. Saves the team $3.5 M. Cap room $29.9M.

There is cash available. Please use it wisely Tambo!
 

Wheathead

Formally a McRib
Apr 4, 2008
4,635
5
Saskatoon
They have 20.9M in cap room right now.

Don't forget the compliance buyouts. There are two we can use.

1. Horcoff. No question, Horcoff. His contract is 8.5% of the cap next year. Has to go. Saves the team $5.5 M. Cap room $26.4M.

2. Nick Schultz. Saves the team $3.5 M. Cap room $29.9M.

There is cash available. Please use it wisely Tambo!

For who? It's a weak UFA class...
 

Koto

Registered User
May 3, 2011
4,404
0
You don't see the difference? Eberle is a young star who hasn't even hit his prime yet while Hemsky is on the downside of his prime years.
We have 3 RWers on the team. Eberle, Yakupov and Hemsky. It seems like a no brainer to me that Hemsky be the odd man out, don't you think?

While Hemsky provided a great offensive spark last night, he also had some awful gaffes defensively so while he's a good player (although maddeningly inconsistent), we need a more physical, 2 way player in his place. Trading Eberle now would be a big mistake.

hemsky+what we get for eberle>eberle+what we get for hemsky.

They have 20.9M in cap room right now.

Don't forget the compliance buyouts. There are two we can use.

1. Horcoff. No question, Horcoff. His contract is 8.5% of the cap next year. Has to go. Saves the team $5.5 M. Cap room $26.4M.

2. Nick Schultz. Saves the team $3.5 M. Cap room $29.9M.


There is cash available. Please use it wisely Tambo!

HAhahahahahahahaha did you even see how productive gagner and nuge were when horcoff was out? they got murdered, hes staying.


and schultz may not be very good, but hes still our 4th best Dman and even if there were FA options to replace him (not many) we dont have a history of being able to sign those guys.


both need to stay.
 

The Perfect Human*

Guest
Seemingly you missed where I specifically stated that Chicago attracted players like Sharp and Hossa to fill up the size in the lineup.

Either Hall or Yak will be more physically difficult players to play against then Kane and Toews.

Theres no reason that we can't attract bigger skilled players to our lineup when the time comes. As happened for Chicago. You don't seem to follow the point I'm making with that.

A guy like Robert Lang or Havlat isn't impossible to find if you are an attractive team for players to sign with. Hossa or Sharp being more important fishes but also possible to teams to attract. Sharp was such a key addition.

They traded for Sharp, they didn't "attract" Him.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad