Oilers Unlucky

[Roof Daddy]

Hockey's Future... where potential is more valuable and more guaranteed than current NHL talent

...except the 1st overall of course, it's the holy grail of hockey

.... or unless its your team. Because I'm sure you would have held the same opinion prior to the 07-08 season. Toews and Kane were just draft picks after all, total scrubs. Should have traded them for Recchi and Modano at the time - proven talent.

 

[stefanh]

Why is this even a thread?

What point is there to call players bad first overalls after 1 and 0 seasons? Why not at least give them 5?

 

[Pyke*]

Sens got 3 first overall picks.All 3 were bad picks.Just sayin


1993-Alexandre Daigle
1995-Chris Phillips
1996-Bryan Berard

Bryan Berard was an elite defender who absent his eye injury would have put up big numbers for a long time - he oozed offensive skill. He was also traded for Wade Redden, who was an olympian on Team Canada's 2006 squad and up until his complete regression in recent years, was regarded as an outstanding puck moving defenseman.

Chris Phillips never lived up to his #1 billing, but he's been a solid #2 defender with the franchise since he was drafted - and is likely going to retire a Senator. While not necessarily a perfect #1 pick, he was the best available in a weak draft year. Up until Zdeno Chara in the 3rd round, there's really nobody in 1996 in the first 3 rounds who has done anything significant (lesser lights like Zyuzin or Dumont, sure, but I'd pick Phillips over them).... and Chara was a throw-in when the deal got made for Yashin in 2001, showing just how little he had developed in the 5 years since his draft date. It was a fine pick, all things considered.

Daigle was a bit of a miss, but sometimes it happens.

A real miss would be Lawton in 1984.

 

[Future]

Why is Hall not on the same level as previous 1st overall picks? How is Yakupov a better prospect than Hall? I agree that Nugent-Hopkins has questions but his top end potential is quite high.

I guarentee Yakupov will be better than Hall.

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

I guarentee Yakupov will be better than Hall.

Maybe what makes him so much better? What makes Hall such a weak player at first overall compared to others?

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

.... or unless its your team. Because I'm sure you would have held the same opinion prior to the 07-08 season. Toews and Kane were just draft picks after all, total scrubs. Should have traded them for Recchi and Modano at the time - proven talent.

Well, given the premise of the thread (comparing 1st overall picks from the past 5 years)... yeah potential's importance is being a bit overexaggerated.

I didn't imply that Hall or Tavares would be busts or that what you see now is what you're going to get... I didn't imply that high draft picks are not as important as some roster players, just that given that you're comparing 1st overall players... Hall and Tavares have a lot to prove before they could be considered at the same level as EJ, Kane, Stamkos and Crosby.

When Kane was drafted 1st overall, I wasn't thinking "I think he'll be better than Nash, Fleury, maybe EJ and but not Crosby". I was hoping for an elite player that could one day prove that he could live up to the same level those guys had proven. Even more, that Kane and Toews could take the Hawks to the Stanley Cup...

The past five 1st overalls play different games and we won't really know who is better or worse than any other for another 5 years, at least.

 

[SDig14]

I guarentee Yakupov will be better than Hall.

Bold statement. Sadly, no way to prove it or back it up. Get back to me in about 6 years and we'll find out if we are right.

 

[iCanada]

I guarentee Yakupov will be better than Hall.

Bold of you. Couturier was supposed to be a lock for a Franchise player last year, and now isn't even a lock for top five.

I agree that Yakupov looks absolutely dominant (I've watched that one youtube video a couple thousand times...) but a lot can change over the course of ones draft year.

 

[CandiedBacon]

So out of the previous five first overall picks:

Tavares (2009)
Stamkos (2008)
Kane (2007)
EJ (2006)
Crosby (2005)

You'd take Hall over 3 of those players?

What am I misreading? Lol

As a Vancouver fan I'd say everyone but Crosby, Stamkos and maybe Tavares, I'd also take RNH over EJ any day

 

[Future]

Maybe what makes him so much better? What makes Hall such a weak player at first overall compared to others?

I don't think I said he was a weak pick. I just feel Yakupov will be a strong one. I see Hall as a 90 point player in the future while if Yakupov continues to develop at this pace will be a 100 and possibly higher. But I should probably wait atleast one more year lol.

 

[SDig14]

I don't think I said he was a weak pick. I just feel Yakupov will be a strong one. I see Hall as a 90 point player in the future while if Yakupov continues to develop at this pace will be a 100 and possibly higher. But I should probably wait atleast one more year lol.

lol maybe just one more year

Calling him a top 3 NHL player might be a little premature. The difference between junior and the NHL is HUUGE, and some kids just don't make the translation as well as others. Perhaps he's a 70 point player in the NHL? Who knows.

I just remember a year before the 2010 draft, the talk was Hall and Kabanov, with some guys talking about McFarland, Seguin, etc...Kabanov ends up a 3rd rounder and Mcfarland falls to the 2nd round.

A year ago everyone was talking about guys like Puempel, Musil, Couturier, RNH, Larsson, etc. as top 5 picks, now Musil is being ranked outside the 1st round by some, late first rounder by others, and Puempel is no longer a top 10 pick most likely.

So much can change in a year.

 

[deanmoriarty]

The only way they might be considered unlucky is because there are 4 or 5 near-equal candidates for 1st overall this year. Tough decision.

As for Hall - the kid was getting boo'd every time he touched the puck halfway into his first game in Montreal, 'cause he's just that good. those fans know a great player when they see one.

 

[iCanada]

The only way they might be considered unlucky is because there are 4 or 5 near-equal candidates for 1st overall this year. Tough decision.

As for Hall - the kid was getting boo'd every time he touched the puck halfway into his first game in Montreal, 'cause he's just that good. those fans know a great player when they see one.

Stu MacGregor disagrees with you. He has said he wants to pick first overall. Likes the pressure, wants to pick "his guy."

 

[sewellda]

I think the only danger of Hall or any of your top prospects being busts is whether they can be developed properly, and not thrown to the wolves too early. I think this summer Edmonton needs to sign a couple quality older veterans with a pedigree of winning to teach the young lads.

 

[BobDobolina]

A year before the 2006 draft Phil Kessel and Michael Frolik were 1 and 2 going into the season and there was a lot of talk how some scouts had Kessel placed ahead of Crosby if he had been eligible. Rob Shremp and Lauri Tukonen were top-5 picks a year before the 2004 draft and Johannes Salmonsson was in the discussion. Spezza was an absolute lock for number one until Kovalchuk emerged. Nikolai Zherdev was number 1 on some lists during early parts of the season before that draft.

My point is that Yakupov is a great prospect now but things may change considerably so you really shouldn't fawn over getting him so much. Taylor Hall for me is in the same category as Patrick Kane and JT, not a superstar but a star that will score you a ton of points and a real important piece for the future.

 

[It Was 4 to 1*]

tavares is better and it's not even close

when hall can make an ahl'er score 30 goals two seasons in a row (and another score 20 and 50 points in one) we'll talk

 

[Trollmark*]

When Hall is a playmaker, we'll talk.

 

[Philly85*]

lotta frustrated/dumb teenagers itt who really have no clue, just a lot of pure conjecture and baseless opinions.

no one really knows how the hell things will end up for at least another 5 years. but hey, whatever floats yer boat ladies.

 

[zeus3007*]

tavares is better and it's not even close

when hall can make an ahl'er score 30 goals two seasons in a row (and another score 20 and 50 points in one) we'll talk

I think Moulson has proven to be more than an AHL'er. Maybe not a 30 goal guy unless he's with the right set up man, but hardly an AHL'er at this point. Also, keep in mind that Tavares has been acting as set up man, Hall has been making his own scoring chances and goals. Two different styles completely.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

One thing that would be make this Hall vs Tavares debate absolutely fantastic is if they lead their teams to the finals against each other in a few years. Good ol' fashion Oilers vs Islanders Stanley Cup finals, both teams wearing their old colours again.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Yakupov is hardly a slam dunk to be better than Hall. As of right now I'd take Hall everyday despite Yakupov's point total this season.

 

[Oberyn]

tavares is better and it's not even close

when hall can make an ahl'er score 30 goals two seasons in a row (and another score 20 and 50 points in one) we'll talk

Moulson is hardly an AHLer. And Hall is not a playmaker, he creates his own scoring chances through his speed. Kind of gutless to say Tavares is better because he has an advantage in playmaking, when both players have such different styles of play.

As for me, I give the advantage now to Tavares, but I think long term Hall will be better purely because he has that goal scoring instinct. Not saying playmaking is bad, but down the stretch I would feel more comfortable with a player like Hall who can dominate on the rush, and can create his own scoring chances.

 

[SLAPSHOT723]

Moulson is hardly an AHLer. And Hall is not a playmaker, he creates his own scoring chances through his speed. Kind of gutless to say Tavares is better because he has an advantage in playmaking, when both players have such different styles of play.

As for me, I give the advantage now to Tavares, but I think long term Hall will be better purely because he has that goal scoring instinct. Not saying playmaking is bad, but down the stretch I would feel more comfortable with a player like Hall who can dominate on the rush, and can create his own scoring chances.

Tavares will be a much better goal scorer than Hall, I don't think that should even be a debate. He's already a better playmaker too.

 

[frag2]

Tavares will be a much better goal scorer than Hall, I don't think that should even be a debate. He's already a better playmaker too.

Hahah....mmm ok.

Both can score, both can dish the puck...1 has 2 seasons under his belt, another not even a full 82 GP season...I'm surprised you can see the future. Please tell me what the lotto numbers are for next week.

Kthxbye

edit: the fact that many scouts had said Hall could've went first the same draft year as Tavares speaks volumes about his talent level.

 

[McPuritania]

tavares is better and it's not even close
when hall can make an ahl'er score 30 goals two seasons in a row (and another score 20 and 50 points in one) we'll talk

Tavares will be a much better goal scorer than Hall, I don't think that should even be a debate. He's already a better playmaker too.

When people say these two phrases in something that is obviously very close and debatable they throw any credibility they have out the window. Get a grip.