Oilers Sign Cogliano

[s7ark]

Raymond was a first team all-star, beating out Cogliano. That means that the powers at be in the NCAA thought Raymond was the better player last season vs. Cogliano - which means a lot more then the fact that Cogliano outscored Raymond by a small margin.

I never said Raymond was the better prospect, I just thought they were comparable players. They are both speedsters that have good play making skills.

With that said, I don't think it would be a stretch to say that Raymond will be the better player - not to say that is any sort of consensus, nor should it be.

Hmm I guess I misunderstood your above post then. I thought you were saying Raymond >= Cogs. And even though I haven't seen any of Raymond, I'd be surprised if he ended up a better player then Cogs. JMHO though.

 

[Towelie*]

I do.

At the age of 19, Raymond was playing in the AJHL. At the age of 20, he put up 28 points in 40 games for Minnesota-Duluth.

In contrast, Cogliano put up 48 points in 37 games for Michigan at the age of 19.

There is no doubt Raymond had a pretty impressive season but you need to look at it with a little perspective - he was 21 years old for the entire season. I don't think there is any doubt it would be a massive surprise if Raymond turned out to be the better player.

Massive surprise? Then why did Lowe consider Raymond a 1st round pick - as well as Cogliano. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[Cerebral]

Massive surprise? Then why did Lowe consider Raymond a 1st round pick - as well as Cogliano. That doesn't make any sense.

Do you have a link to where Lowe says this?

Regardless, is it not possible Lowe had Cogliano ranked in the top 15 and Raymond way down at the bottom of the first round? It doesn't even really matter how Lowe felt on draft day anyway, it has become quite clear since the draft that Cogliano is the superior prospect and that his potential is likely quite a bit higher than that of Raymond.

 

[tsunami]

They both played hockey. It's enough to compare.

And I heard they have both 2 arms, 2 legs, etc... Unbelievable no ?

 

[Towelie*]

Do you have a link to where Lowe says this?

Regardless, is it not possible Lowe had Cogliano ranked in the top 15 and Raymond way down at the bottom of the first round? It doesn't even really matter how Lowe felt on draft day anyway, it has become quite clear since the draft that Cogliano is the superior prospect and that his potential is likely quite a bit higher than that of Raymond.

This was said by Lowe after the draft, but I am sure he was referring to at draft time. You could search the Canucks board and find it easily, I cannot, because I have one warning point.

Yes, Lowe could have ranked them 10-15 spots apart, or closer. This is why I think it is a ridiculous notion to say that it would be a "massive surprise" for Raymond to be better then Cogliano, when it appears many people in the NHL saw both of them as 1st round draft picks. It is not like Raymond has played poorly since his draft year. I think both Cogliano and Raymond have played quite similar since their draft year.

And yes, I realize Cogliano is younger - I am not debating the consequences of this. But at the time of the draft, and Lowes conclusion, the age difference was the same and it didn't seem to affect Lowes ranking of the two respectfully.

 

[Cerebral]

This is why I think it is a ridiculous notion to say that it would be a "massive surprise" for Raymond to be better then Cogliano, when it appears many people in the NHL saw both of them as 1st round draft picks.

Do you have a link to prove this? I find it a little funny that "many" people had Raymond listed as a first round pick yet he dropped all the way down to 51 overall. You'd think one of those "many" people would have drafted him earlier wouldn't you?

Regardless, does it really matter what Lowe thought about Raymond or Cogliano around draft day? Lowe once thought Niinimaki would develop into a star in the NHL and he hasn't even gotten a sniff yet. Thoughts on the players around draft day really mean absolute crap right now - all that matters is how they have performed since the draft. Given this, Cogliano is easily the far superior prospect given that he has outperformed Raymond despite being 2 years younger.

 

[Transported Upstater]

And I heard they have both 2 arms, 2 legs, etc... Unbelievable no ?

Source?

 

[Towelie*]

Do you have a link to prove this? I find it a little funny that "many" people had Raymond listed as a first round pick yet he dropped all the way down to 51 overall. You'd think one of those "many" people would have drafted him earlier wouldn't you?

Regardless, does it really matter what Lowe thought about Raymond or Cogliano around draft day? Lowe once thought Niinimaki would develop into a star in the NHL and he hasn't even gotten a sniff yet. Thoughts on the players around draft day really mean absolute crap right now - all that matters is how they have performed since the draft. Given this, Cogliano is easily the far superior prospect given that he has outperformed Raymond despite being 2 years younger.

When I say many people, I am referring to Kevin Lowe and the Edmonton scouting staff, who would have briefed him. Go search the Vancouver board if you want the actual link. I already told you I cannot.

At this point - since draft day - Cogliano and Raymond have developed quite similarly. To say that one or the other has developed far more then the other is just incorrect. Thus, Lowe's, and the Oilers scouts rankings of the two, still holds water considering each has developed rather evenly. It is not like Raymond has developed worse then expected, which is the case in your example of Niinimaki - which doesn't resemble this situation. The age difference is also rather moot because Lowe and co. were obviously aware of this when they made their assessment. To answer your question: Yes - it does matter what Lowe and co thought, in fact, it matters a hell of a lot more then your analysis of the situation.

Yes, I do think it matter what professional scouts think about prospects on draft day. Cogliano and Raymond have put up similar numbers since being drafted, whilst it has already been pointed out that Raymond plays in a better conference and plays on a terrible team in which he has little to no supporting cast.

I really don't know how you are going to win this argument. I think it is fairly obvious that if an organization believes that two prospects are of similar ilk - then it would appear quite silly to say that for one to surpass the other it would be a "massive surprise", unless you have some egocentric opinion of yourself which makes you feel you are a better talent analyst then a group of professional scouts.

 

[40oz]

i dont think that the Raymond plays on a weaker team arguement works. because its cogliano who has to deal with 2nd line ice time behind older players.

 

[Towelie*]

i dont think that the Raymond plays on a weaker team arguement works. because its cogliano who has to deal with 2nd line ice time behind older players.

That is fair enough - I was just pointing out what someone else said.

 

[Kaizer]

And I heard they have both 2 arms, 2 legs, etc... Unbelievable no ?

youtube this or it didn't happen