Proposal: Oilers / Pens

[Riptide]

I get you would be moving the best piece in the deal in Rust but where's the incentive for Edmonton to take something less than Rust to be saddled with 4 years of Johnson?

Manning is a soon to be UFA and can be buried as you said. He offers little incentive in this trade for us. As per Russell he's an overpaid #5. I'd love to move on from his contract but moving to for a worse contract with 2 additional years and you want us to add or take less than Rust, it's just a non-starter

Then I think both teams pass.

 

[3074326]

HFBoards is incapable of having a realistic discussion if Jack Johnson is involved.

 

[Riptide]

pens trade johnson + rust to get back two overpaid $6/#7 dmen?

I think they are shooting for a johnson + rust for not negative value guys

No real clue what Rutherford is looking to accomplish. But one thing that should be said about him (at least in his time in Pit), is that his trades have been very good for Pittsburgh. I doubt that he would end up moving JJ+Rust only to get back an offer as ugly as that of the OPs.

 

[The Nuge]

Russell is maybe 500k overpaid, but he’s a steady #4/5, so it’s not that unreasonable. Johnson on the other hand is overpaid by like 2 million, has big term, and is more like a #6/7. I would consider it if Johnson was retained 50%. At least at 1.625, it’s not a super unreasonable number to justify having him sit around as our #7 dman for the next 4 years. But that likely means expanding the deal further

This doesn’t do anything for the Pens either. Russell AND Manning when they already have 8 or 9 guys on the roster?! I realize that Johnson is a tough move, but the OP ignores the Pens' situation.

All of that being said, I get why any fanbase would be against taking him on.

I mean, Russell would be your #5 at worst, so I’m not sure how you can say it ignores Pittsburgh’s needs. It’s upgrades your defense, while cutting the term committed in half, in exchange for a 3rd liner. I get it if that expense is not worth it to you, but it’s silly to try and claim it does nothing for Pittsburgh.

And Manning already cleared waivers so I’m not sure why you’re worried about him being stuck on the team. He’s essentially just a 1 year, 1 million dollar cap penalty

 

[BHD]

I mean, Russell would be your #5 at worst, so I’m not sure how you can say it ignores Pittsburgh’s needs. It’s upgrades your defense, while cutting the term committed in half, in exchange for a 3rd liner. I get it if that expense is not worth it to you, but it’s silly to try and claim it does nothing for Pittsburgh.

And Manning already cleared waivers so I’m not sure why you’re worried about him being stuck on the team. He’s essentially just a 1 year, 1 million dollar cap penalty

Part of why the Pens are trading Johnson is to make cap space. It doesn't make sense for them to have two bottom pair guys making 4 mill each when they already have Chad Ruhwedel and Juuso Riikola making 700 and 850, respectively. Russell doesn't strike me as that much of an improvement over Johnson. His contract, as Oiler fans have pointed out, is the only reason I would move Johnson for him.

That being said, it would be crazy if they traded for each other. The Ron Hainsey Era was the best and worst thing to happen. It made the organization believe that any player can become a defensive stalwart as soon as they don the Penguins jersey.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Part of why the Pens are trading Johnson is to make cap space. It doesn't make sense for them to have two bottom pair guys making 4 mill each when they already have Chad Ruhwedel and Juuso Riikola making 700 and 850, respectively. Russell doesn't strike me as that much of an improvement over Johnson. His contract, as Oiler fans have pointed out, is the only reason I would move Johnson for him.

That being said, it would be crazy if they traded for each other. The Ron Hainsey Era was the best and worst thing to happen. It made the organization believe that any player can become a defensive stalwart as soon as they don the Penguins jersey.

Russell is the better defenceman today, I don’t think that should even be a question. The only reason we’d move him is because we have LHD knocking on the door and to save cap. I sincerely can’t envision a scenario we double up our commitment just to save pocket change in cap space without some significant compensation for doing so.

as I mentioned, moving Russell would be partly about creating a roster spot for William Lagesson or Caleb Jones. Losing a trade, going from 2 to 4 years commitment, just to get back a worse player that plays the same position.... without heavy compensation, that would undo the positivity of the Lucic/Neal deal, in my view.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Pass

People are going to look really stupid when the Pens trade Johnson without having to take near as bad contract back and not giving up good player or 1st. I will say I told you so shortly.

And for what reason other than "I say so" will the Pens be able to offload Johnson for cheap?

 

[BHD]

Russell is the better defenceman today, I don’t think that should even be a question. The only reason we’d move him is because we have LHD knocking on the door and to save cap. I sincerely can’t envision a scenario we double up our commitment just to save pocket change in cap space without some significant compensation for doing so.

as I mentioned, moving Russell would be partly about creating a roster spot for William Lagesson or Caleb Jones. Losing a trade, going from 2 to 4 years commitment, just to get back a worse player that plays the same position.... without heavy compensation, that would undo the positivity of the Lucic/Neal deal, in my view.

The Penguins are in the same situation as the Oilers. They're trying to dump Johnson so they can a) get cap space and b) make room for a younger player (Riikola, Marino, etc.). So this trade doesn't do anything for either team.

I'm not a big fan of Johnson or Russell. Although, Russell is the better player. It's just that Pens fans have watched Ron Hainsey, Matt Hunwick, and Jack Johnson suit up over the past couple of years. Bringing in Russell would feel like Groundhog Day.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

It would take more than Rust to make taking Johnson worthwhile.

You forget that you get to dump cap bums like Russell and Manning?

 

[voxel]

You forget that you get to dump cap bums like Russell and Manning?

Russell is okay and only signed for two years. Manning is the complete dump.

If we still had Lucic, I do a Lucic for JMFJ swap.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

You forget that you get to dump cap bums like Russell and Manning?

You forget that Manning can be buried and his contract ends after this year but lets not talk about that or anything.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

You forget that Manning can be buried and his contract ends after this year but lets not talk about that or anything.

And you forget that you rid yourselves of Russell while adding Rust now while remaining cap compliant. Rust would be your 2nd best winger (assuming RNH / Draisatl are C's).

 

[BHD]

HFBoards is incapable of having a realistic discussion if Jack Johnson is involved.

That's because no fan wants him on their team for the next four(!) years.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

And you forget that you rid yourselves of Russell while adding Rust now while remaining cap compliant. Rust would be your 2nd best winger (assuming RNH / Draisatl are C's).

And we get 4 years of a defenseman who is as bad as Manning. No, thank you.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

The Penguins are in the same situation as the Oilers. They're trying to dump Johnson so they can a) get cap space and b) make room for a younger player (Riikola, Marino, etc.). So this trade doesn't do anything for either team.

I'm not a big fan of Johnson or Russell. Although, Russell is the better player. It's just that Pens fans have watched Ron Hainsey, Matt Hunwick, and Jack Johnson suit up over the past couple of years. Bringing in Russell would feel like Groundhog Day.

It literally does for you by dropping the cap completely in the 3rd and 4th year. We're beating a dead horse on both sides but the bolded statement isn't at all true.

 

[BHD]

It literally does for you by dropping the cap completely in the 3rd and 4th year. We're beating a dead horse on both sides but the bolded statement isn't at all true.

The Pens, a team with Cup aspirations this season, would still have a mediocre defender on their bottom pair.

But yes, it's a dead horse at this point.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

The Pens, a team with Cup aspirations this season, would still have a mediocre defender on their bottom pair.

But yes, it's a dead horse at this point.

Personally I think you should offer a better incentive and not take a cap dump back ala Russell but that might be harder to do at this point in the season. Maybe around the deadline when a clubs playoff aspirations have eroded this will be a more feasible task.

 

[Revelation]

The Pens, a team with Cup aspirations this season, would still have a mediocre defender on their bottom pair.

But yes, it's a dead horse at this point.

Which teams have better bottom pairing D than Russell?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The Pens, a team with Cup aspirations this season, would still have a mediocre defender on their bottom pair.

But yes, it's a dead horse at this point.

The problem is your expectations. As if bow you have JJ on your starting roster’s bottom pair for 4 years. Expecting to dump this contract with minimal pain is near impossible.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

Russell is maybe 500k overpaid, but he’s a steady #4/5, so it’s not that unreasonable. Johnson on the other hand is overpaid by like 2 million, has big term, and is more like a #6/7. I would consider it if Johnson was retained 50%. At least at 1.625, it’s not a super unreasonable number to justify having him sit around as our #7 dman for the next 4 years. But that likely means expanding the deal further



I mean, Russell would be your #5 at worst, so I’m not sure how you can say it ignores Pittsburgh’s needs. It’s upgrades your defense, while cutting the term committed in half, in exchange for a 3rd liner. I get it if that expense is not worth it to you, but it’s silly to try and claim it does nothing for Pittsburgh.

And Manning already cleared waivers so I’m not sure why you’re worried about him being stuck on the team. He’s essentially just a 1 year, 1 million dollar cap penalty

Russell is closer to a 5/6 than he is a 4/5.

He's a solid#5 no reason to try to oversell him as more than that.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

Personally I think you should offer a better incentive and not take a cap dump back ala Russell but that might be harder to do at this point in the season. Maybe around the deadline when a clubs playoff aspirations have eroded this will be a more feasible task.

Without salary going back I'm not sure why teams wouldn't demand a 1st plus.

 

[GhostfaceWu]

Koskinen for Johnson+DeSmith.

 

[BHD]

Koskinen for Johnson+DeSmith.

The Pens just sent DeSmith down because they a cheaper option in Jarry.