Proposal: Oilers offer Wayne Gretzky to the Canuck for Adams, Mclean 3 1st rounders 25 million dollars

[MS]

You bet. This was in Gretzky's book. Gretzky said to the Canucks that he will sleep on it, intending to sign with them in the morning, but an impatient Pat Quinn phoned Gretzky at absurd hours in the morning demanding for a answer. That was enough to sway Gretzky away from Vancouver altogether. Gretz wanted to play with Bure pretty badly, and eventually did when Bure went to the Rangers. Typical depressing Canucks news.

As for the trade, Gretzky would of brought Canucks revenue to an all time high, even if the Griffiths couldn't afford him. Gretzky merchandise alone would have brought in a boat load. GM place would have been built sooner than 95, with the crowds Gretzky would have brought in. Even more so than Bure.

The trade although getting the best player ever to play the game, would have hurt us. Adams was a clutch player in the playoffs. While McLean was a very good #1 goalie stuck on terrible teams. We wouldn't have gone far in 94 if McLean wasn't a brick wall.
Who knows what would have happened if we traded for Gretzky, I'm sure having the greatest of all time on your team would of drawn interest for very good players wanting to sign here.

Oh well, this is ancient history now, but fun to discuss.

This whole narrative is BS.

Gretzky was using the Canucks to leverage a better offer from NYR, which is where he really wanted to go.

He told the Canucks he wanted to ‘sleep on it’ but the Canucks were then tipped off that he had a meeting with the Rangers early the next morning.

This why George McPhee phoned Gretzky in the middle of the night.

 

[MS]

The ‘88 Gretzky rumour has been around for years but was never remotely close to happening because the Griffiths simply did not have $25 million floating around.

 

[kaiser matias]

For those saying Gretzky and Bure would have been great together, remember that Bure was drafted in 1989, the year after this trade happened. While it's still likely the Canucks are the only team to take the chance of drafting him, there's no guarantee that happens in this scenario.

 

[kaiser matias]

I feel the same. Although I don't know their background it seems like anything Canucks related is via the Canuck sales ticket. Francesco would have used his other source of business to off set this amount although it won't be 25 million 2021

Frank Griffiths made his money in radio and the like. He owned CKNW and some other stations, which is how he ended up associated with the Canucks.

 

[Jay Cee]

The ‘88 Gretzky rumour has been around for years but was never remotely close to happening because the Griffiths simply did not have $25 million floating around.

Yeah it is a really moot point. Vancouver was a small market team in 1988 with shallow pockets. The money always was the key to make this happen for whatever team took him, and we just didn't have it. If we had 25 mil I am sure we could have shaved off the ask. It was just a starting point for negotiation. Sounds like we had no where near enough money to make it happen.

 

[Peter10]

You bet. This was in Gretzky's book. Gretzky said to the Canucks that he will sleep on it, intending to sign with them in the morning, but an impatient Pat Quinn phoned Gretzky at absurd hours in the morning demanding for a answer. That was enough to sway Gretzky away from Vancouver altogether. Gretz wanted to play with Bure pretty badly, and eventually did when Bure went to the Rangers. Typical depressing Canucks news.

Ugh no, Gretzky retired in 1999 and Bure was dealt to the Rangers in 2002.

 

[Grifter3511]

LA got larry robinson and john tonelli as ring chasing vets who followed gretzky. would they have come here too?

imagine our 92 team was

courtnall gretzky linden
tonelli larionov bure
momesso ronning sandlak
kron/valk fergus/walter odjick

lidster lumme
babych diduck
murzyn robinson

gamble

the goalie situation’s ugly but if you can straighten that out, gretzky vs mario finals

Didn't we briefly have John Vanbiesbrouck during the summer before Florida took him in expansion draft? Maybe we hold onto him in this scenario?

 

[PavelBure10]

This whole narrative is BS.

Gretzky was using the Canucks to leverage a better offer from NYR, which is where he really wanted to go.

He told the Canucks he wanted to ‘sleep on it’ but the Canucks were then tipped off that he had a meeting with the Rangers early the next morning.

This why George McPhee phoned Gretzky in the middle of the night.

Hey thanks I never heard the George McPhee story, I'm just going by what I read in Gretzky's book, thanks for the insight

 

[PavelBure10]

Ugh no, Gretzky retired in 1999 and Bure was dealt to the Rangers in 2002.

You're absolutely correct, thanks for correcting me on my mistake..

I think Bure and Gretz would of been awesome if Gretzky was in Oil/Kings mode, not necessarily Blues/Rangers days. The Great Ones best days were already behind him.

 

[Hit the post]

I would've settled for Larionov sticking with the Canucks & feeding Bure easy goals.

 

[F A N]

What if the Canucks traded for Wayne Gretzky in 1988?

 

[MS]

Hey thanks I never heard the George McPhee story, I'm just going by what I read in Gretzky's book, thanks for the insight

My understanding of the situation after taking in every bit of information for the last 25 years is this:

- Gretzky wanted to go to NYR. This makes sense. The guy had a big ego and going to reunite with Mess in the Big Apple while also providing some acting opportunities for his wife made total sense. Way more than signing for a bad small market Canadian team.

- however, in the 1996 and 1997 offseasons NYR were being weirdly thrifty and not the big spenders we saw just before or a couple years later (see getting outbid by us for Messier the next year only 3 years after the ‘94 Cup). They were unsure if they wanted to commit to Gretzky.

- Vancouver were the other suitors and if NYR didn’t pony up Gretzky was content coming here as a 2nd choice. Did his research on schools etc and was prepared for it to be an outcome.

- the Canucks were a bit troubled by the negotiation as it seemed like they were meeting all of Gretzky’s demands but he just wouldn’t commit. Like he was dragging his feet. Normally UFA wraps up right after July 1 and we were now in late July.

- the team had a meeting in Seattle with Gretzky and his people where they expected to wrap things up. Gretzky wanted to sleep on it again.

- while Gretzky was ‘sleeping on it’ the team were tipped off that the reason the negotiation was taking to long was that the Gretzky camp was using the Vancouver negotiation to leverage NYR. And that Gretzky wasn’t actually sleeping on it, and had a meeting with the Rangers scheduled for the next morning.

- the Canucks were infuriated and George McPhee - who is a bit of a hothead - phoned Gretzky in the night to call him on his BS and tell him to either sign or f*** off because we didn’t want to be used.

- Gretzky got the offer he wanted from NYR the next day and accepted, but had a convenient out for playing the Canucks the way he did by using the midnight phone call as an excuse. And Gretzky friend/Quinn enemy Tony Gallagher was delighted to embarrass the team by promoting this narrative. And the narrative has stuck for 25 years.

 

[Jyrki21]

And if you search the words “Gretzky” and “McPhee” in this forum with either myself or @MS as the poster, you will find this at least 5 times.

 

[krutovsdonut]

to put $25 million in 1988 in perspective, the sharks paid $45 million as an expansion fee in 1991. i think wayne had only just hit the $1 million plateau and the oilers were able to claim credibly they sold him because they knew they could not afford his next contract, which was $3m with the kings.

 

[MS]

to put $25 million in 1988 in perspective, the sharks paid $45 million as an expansion fee in 1991. i think wayne had only just hit the $1 million plateau and the oilers were able to claim credibly they sold him because they knew they could not afford his next contract, which was $3m with the kings.

Exactly. It seems small now but $25 million was basically the value of the Canuck franchise at that point.

There was a potential payoff if Gretzky could turn the franchise around ... but if the Griffiths were able to beg/borrow/steal that $25 million and Gretzky suffered a career-ending injury in his first year, they'd be broke and forced to sell the team.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

And if you search the words “Gretzky” and “McPhee” in this forum with either myself or @MS as the poster, you will find this at least 5 times.

i miss wetcoaster

maybe if we turn out the lights, close our eyes, and spin three times saying burke — bure — transfer fee, he'll come back?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

i remember hearing (after the fact, probably in the early or mid 90s) that the griffithses stopped kicking tires on the '88 gretzky deal because they would have had to cede a huge chunk of the team (maybe even more than 50%?) to jimmy patterson. the way i heard it, the family was too invested in the team making them big dogs in the city and i'm guessing there was probably a dynastic passing the team on to arthur thing here for frank. but basically, i'm imagining two rich old white guys side-eyeing each other while smoking cigars in big leather chairs in the no dames section of the lawn and tennis club.

if all of this is accurate, what a colossal misread. it's 1988, the scale of wealth in the city was on the verge of exploding, gretzky would have paid for himself and much much more, and they ended up having to partner with john mccaw anyway and by 96 or 97 cashed out totally.

 

[kaiser matias]

i remember hearing (after the fact, probably in the early or mid 90s) that the griffithses stopped kicking tires on the '88 gretzky deal because they would have had to cede a huge chunk of the team (maybe even more than 50%?) to jimmy patterson. the way i heard it, the family was too invested in the team making them big dogs in the city and i'm guessing there was probably a dynastic passing the team on to arthur thing here for frank. but basically, i'm imagining two rich old white guys side-eyeing each other while smoking cigars in big leather chairs in the no dames section of the lawn and tennis club.

if all of this is accurate, what a colossal misread. it's 1988, the scale of wealth in the city was on the verge of exploding, gretzky would have paid for himself and much much more, and they ended up having to partner with john mccaw anyway and by 96 or 97 cashed out totally.

I think Pattison was mentioned in Stephen Brunt's book on the Gretzky trade as well, as he was the only guy in Vancouver who had that kind of money at the time. Only thing is Pattison was, and is not, a hockey guy (despite owning the WHA Blazers), and I can imagine between that and the thought of Frank Griffiths giving up part of his team, it was a non-starter (ironic considering what Arthur would do just a few years later).

 

[MS]

i remember hearing (after the fact, probably in the early or mid 90s) that the griffithses stopped kicking tires on the '88 gretzky deal because they would have had to cede a huge chunk of the team (maybe even more than 50%?) to jimmy patterson. the way i heard it, the family was too invested in the team making them big dogs in the city and i'm guessing there was probably a dynastic passing the team on to arthur thing here for frank. but basically, i'm imagining two rich old white guys side-eyeing each other while smoking cigars in big leather chairs in the no dames section of the lawn and tennis club.

if all of this is accurate, what a colossal misread. it's 1988, the scale of wealth in the city was on the verge of exploding, gretzky would have paid for himself and much much more, and they ended up having to partner with john mccaw anyway and by 96 or 97 cashed out totally.

My understanding is that Pattison has/had zero interest in ever being a pro sports owner again after losing money on the Vancouver Blazers WHA team.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

fwiw, google turns this up—

After Gretzky announced the blockbuster trade on Aug. 9, new revelations about Pocklington’s role in the deal emerged daily. Arthur Griffiths, the governor of the Vancouver Canucks and son of owner Frank Griffiths, told Maclean’s that Vancouver businessman Nelson Skalbania had acted as a middleman in negotiations between Pocklington and the Griffiths family in an attempt to forge a trade of Gretzky to the Canucks. Griffiths added that his family rejected it as too costly. . . .

Although rumors of a Gretzky trade only surfaced in the media within the past two weeks, the negotiations actually began last February, when Skalbania approached Griffiths about trading forthe superstar. Griffiths said that he phoned Pocklington, who confirmed that Gretzky was available. Skalbania then began negotiating with Pocklington and eventually went to the Griffiths family with a deal that would have cost them 25 per cent of the franchise, about $15 million in cash and several players and future draft choices. Griffiths said he later discovered that Vancouver billionaire Jimmy Pattison had agreed to contribute up to $7 million in order to obtain partial ownership of the Canucks—and marketing rights to Gretzky endorsements. The deal also would have given Gretzky a share of the team. Griffiths said that Gretzky was prepared to accept the arrangement if he became a part owner of the team. But Griffiths said that his family preferred not to relinquish any part of the Canucks.

. . . Indeed, Canucks governor Griffiths said that Pocklington treated Gretzky like any other asset that could be sold simply for a monetary gain—and to acquire more assets.

Sport and salesmanship | Maclean's | AUGUST 22, 1988​

but who knows? skalbania was not exactly known as the straightest shooter right?

I think Pattison was mentioned in Stephen Brunt's book on the Gretzky trade as well, as he was the only guy in Vancouver who had that kind of money at the time.

that's the same guy who ghostwrote burke's book, no?

 

[MS]

i remember hearing (after the fact, probably in the early or mid 90s) that the griffithses stopped kicking tires on the '88 gretzky deal because they would have had to cede a huge chunk of the team (maybe even more than 50%?) to jimmy patterson. the way i heard it, the family was too invested in the team making them big dogs in the city and i'm guessing there was probably a dynastic passing the team on to arthur thing here for frank. but basically, i'm imagining two rich old white guys side-eyeing each other while smoking cigars in big leather chairs in the no dames section of the lawn and tennis club.

if all of this is accurate, what a colossal misread. it's 1988, the scale of wealth in the city was on the verge of exploding, gretzky would have paid for himself and much much more, and they ended up having to partner with john mccaw anyway and by 96 or 97 cashed out totally.

Interesting that Pattison was actually potentially involved. That goes against everything I've ever heard about him.

I don't know if I could call it a mis-read, though. With what we know in hindsight? Sure. But at the time? Imagine Gretzky suffers a career-ending injury 30 games into his time in Vancouver. The Griffiths would have seen no benefit from the signing outside of ticket sales for one year, they'd be close to broke with the amount they'd put out to buy Gretzky, and a huge chunk of their team would now be owned by Gretzky/Pattison. That is a massive, massive risk to take. Can't blame them for not doing it.

 

[kaiser matias]

that's the same guy who ghostwrote burke's book, no?

It is. He also wrote a book on Bobby Orr, but I haven't read it.

 

[F A N]

Interesting that Pattison was actually potentially involved. That goes against everything I've ever heard about him.

There's always been speculation around Pattison's interest in owning a sports team. I think every local owner wanting to sell to a local owner has rang him up. In hindsight, he probably was never that serious.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Interesting that Pattison was actually potentially involved. That goes against everything I've ever heard about him.

I don't know if I could call it a mis-read, though. With what we know in hindsight? Sure. But at the time? Imagine Gretzky suffers a career-ending injury 30 games into his time in Vancouver. The Griffiths would have seen no benefit from the signing outside of ticket sales for one year, they'd be close to broke with the amount they'd put out to buy Gretzky, and a huge chunk of their team would now be owned by Gretzky/Pattison. That is a massive, massive risk to take. Can't blame them for not doing it.

that's true. although now i wonder, what kind of insurance an owner can take out on a star player...? meaning as an asset, not just someone to pay his salary if he gets hurt

like, if you can get insurance on a racehorse, you'd have to think a team forking over $25 million on gretzky could get a policy on him right?

there was just so much growth on the table. i'm not a business/finance person so i'm just some guy on the internet spitballing wildly but with gretzky on board in the summer of 1988, could frank griffiths have rounded up the investors and fasttracked the permits and get what turned out to be GM place greenlighted right then and there? and then he's got his equity and anything that could happen to gretzky doesn't seem so scary anymore.

 

[elitepete]

Wayne never won another cup and I’ve got to think it would have been the same had he been traded here.

Wrong.