Pre-Game Talk: Oilers@Hawks

[hawksrule]

If they're going to move members of the core as much as it pains me, it should be Kane that's first to go. He has the most value and should still command a haul in return. Keith and Crawford should be next.

While I vehemently disagree with the notion of trading Kane, I'll put that aside to simply disagree that he will bring the haul you expect. Contending teams don't have the high picks we'd want, and the teams that would have those picks are in the same rebuilding position we are.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

Keith should have been moved a long time ago. No idea why they held onto him so long. Same with Crawford. If he needs to play a lot to succeed, he should not be here. It would also serve as a wake up call to the remaining core to move one or two out.

Sorry but this is such revisionist crap.

Keith has a full NMC, a decent cap hit and is a cap recapture risk if they did move him. He's not going anywhere unless he wants to and is still not an awful contract despite his declining game.

Crow has a modified NTC and has been hurt the past two years. He was great 2 years ago pre injury and struggled next year in limited action. When were they supposed to move them? We saw what they had behind him the last few years? Should we have signed Darling like some people wanted to instead?

It's easy with the benefit of hindsight too say that oh yeah, they should have dealt Crow right before the injury, because that's when his value was at the highest, but that's not how things work in real time.


I do understand being a little frustrated with JC giving Crow this game.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

While I vehemently disagree with the notion of trading Kane, I'll put that aside to simply disagree that he will bring the haul you expect. Contending teams don't have the high picks we'd want, and the teams that would have those picks are in the same rebuilding position we are.

I don't want to trade him either, but.....it's unlikely that they're going to win again during his current deal.
Kane should be a move at the draft for a rebuilding team with a high pick that is ready to take the jump to contention. I wouldn't mind them trading Keith and Crawford in-season but Kane should be a guaranteed top 10 pick+really good prospect move. Then another first and B prospect.

It seems there are 2 groups in the room: the guys that won 2-3 cups and the guys that didn't.

 

[BobbyJet]

oh my, really beginning to get worried about JC, either he has no clue or someone is telling him who to play and not to play.

Crow has no business playing this game after his two and Lehners one; not to mention the lineups for the last game made absolutely no sense.

When JC took over last November it made complete sense to me that he try not to change things overnight, hence some of those early decisions were frustrating but somewhat understandable. However, in his first full season the young HC is still mirroring some of the dumb coaching we had seen before he arrived. I'm getting worried too.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Sorry but this is such revisionist crap.

Keith has a full NMC, a decent cap hit and is a cap recapture risk if they did move him. He's not going anywhere unless he wants to and is still not an awful contract despite his declining game.

Crow has a modified NTC and has been hurt the past two years. He was great 2 years ago pre injury and struggled next year in limited action. When were they supposed to move them? We saw what they had behind him the last few years? Should we have signed Darling like some people wanted to instead?

It's easy with the benefit of hindsight too say that oh yeah, they should have dealt Crow right before the injury, because that's when his value was at the highest, but that's not how things work in real time.


I do understand being a little frustrated with JC giving Crow this game.

There were a lot of people calling for Keith to be traded the last few seasons. I was one of them. He supposedly said, “Trade me to Toronto and I’ll win a Norris.” He’s said a lot more about it, but the man has made it damn clear he wants to play for a winner. Crawford may have been immovable but there was always the option to buy him out. Once they had Lehner, they had their next starter. For the backup role going forward, they need to get Lankinen and Delia some ice time at some point so they know what they have.

No revisionist history, many were saying these things the last few seasons.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

There were a lot of people calling for Keith to be traded the last few seasons. I was one of them. He said it himself, “Trade me to Toronto and I’ll win a Norris.” He’s said a lot more about it, but the man has made it damn clear he wants to play for a winner. Crawford may have been immovable but there was always the option to buy him out. Once they had Lehner, they had their next starter. For the backup role going forward, they need to get Lankinen and Delia some ice time at some point so they know what they have.

No revisionist history, many were saying these things the last few seasons.

Source?

 

[ColdSteel2]

Source?

I don’t remember where it came from, just saw it discussed on here. Nevertheless, he has continuously said in all of his interviews that he doesn’t care about stats or role, he just wants to win. That is common knowledge at this point.

 

[Blackhawks]

Source?

Barstool Sports

I think its from here but there is no proof he said it, you can go read it, personally I dont believe it.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I don’t remember where it came from, just saw it discussed on here. Nevertheless, he has continuously said in all of his interviews that he doesn’t care about stats or role, he just wants to win. That is common knowledge at this point.

You quoted him, so you should be able to provide a source. Saying you "saw" something on here doesn't make it reliable.

That's certainly something unique to Duncan Keith right? Never heard another hockey player say that before?

You are just filling in the blanks to fit your narrative.

 

[Rick C137]

I don’t remember where it came from, just saw it discussed on here. Nevertheless, he has continuously said in all of his interviews that he doesn’t care about stats or role, he just wants to win. That is common knowledge at this point.

So admittedly it was just a rumor that you were trying to pass off as fact?

Saying “all I want is to win” and “trade me to Toronto and I’ll win a Norris” are ENTIRELY different statements and attitudes.

 

[ColdSteel2]

You quoted him, so you should be able to provide a source. Saying you "saw" something on here doesn't make it reliable.

That's certainly something unique to Duncan Keith right? Never heard another hockey player say that before?

You are just filling in the blanks to fit your narrative.

So admittedly it was just a rumor that you were trying to pass off as fact?

Saying “all I want is to win” and “trade me to Toronto and I’ll win a Norris” are ENTIRELY different statements and attitudes.

I’m just going off what he’s said in the interviews I’ve heard. If the Toronto comment wasn’t from him, I’ll edit my post.

And what narrative? What narrative could I possibly have and why?

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

I’m just going off what he’s said in the interviews I’ve heard. If the Toronto comment wasn’t from him, I’ll edit my post.

And what narrative? What narrative could I possibly have and why?

Narrative is the wrong word. Argument is better.

You are trying to support your argument (that Keith should have been dealt) by using a quote that as far as I can tell never happened and with something that every single hockey player says.

 

[Rick C137]

I’m just going off what he’s said in the interviews I’ve heard. If the Toronto comment wasn’t from him, I’ll edit my post.

And what narrative? What narrative could I possibly have and why?

You don’t see anything wrong with directly quoting someone when you’ve even said you just heard it was something talked about here and aren’t even sure if he said it?

 

[AmericanDream]

I am so f***ing confused from all these GDTs and pre game threads lol....

 

[ColdSteel2]

Narrative is the wrong word. Argument is better.

You are trying to support your argument (that Keith should have been dealt) by using a quote that as far as I can tell never happened and with something that every single hockey player says.

You don’t see anything wrong with directly quoting someone when you’ve even said you just heard it was something talked about here and aren’t even sure if he said it?

I misremembered it as a direct quote and have since edited my post. I will not bring it up again. Forget the Toronto thing.

I still stand by my argument that after being part of a dynasty, the core just wants to win and not rebuild. It’s supported by their interviews over the last few years, Keith just had one on AM 670 a week or 2 ago. I’m just trying to defend Colliton for the perceived lack of effort from the core. Not asking or expecting anyone to agree with it.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

There were a lot of people calling for Keith to be traded the last few seasons. I was one of them. He supposedly said, “Trade me to Toronto and I’ll win a Norris.” He’s said a lot more about it, but the man has made it damn clear he wants to play for a winner. Crawford may have been immovable but there was always the option to buy him out. Once they had Lehner, they had their next starter. For the backup role going forward, they need to get Lankinen and Delia some ice time at some point so they know what they have.

No revisionist history, many were saying these things the last few seasons.

Just noticing this. The buyout window ends before the start of free agency, so that wasn't an option. Even if it had been, why start spending next years cap for this year?

 

[BobbyJet]

I am so ****ing confused from all these GDTs and pre game threads lol....

Yeah, the 2 threads should be merged once the GDT is posted. How about it mods?

 

[ColdSteel2]

Just noticing this. The buyout window ends before the start of free agency, so that wasn't an option. Even if it had been, why start spending next years cap for this year?

There is a second buyout window in August. They could have done it then if there weren’t any takers in a trade. Better still would be to play him like they are, get him in a groove, then trade him. There are a few teams out there that could be interested in a veteran goalie.

As far as spending next years cap, considering the potential bonus overages, it’s not as impactful as it may seem. Spreading the hit over 2 years would have just kept more space to put the overages on this years cap. It probably wouldn’t be that far from a wash, but we obviously do not have those numbers right now. Just keep in mind Cat, Strome and Nylander are all on ELCs.

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

There is a second buyout window in August. They could have done it then if there weren’t any takers in a trade. Better still would be to play him like they are, get him in a groove, then trade him. There are a few teams out there that could be interested in a veteran goalie.

As far as spending next years cap, considering the potential bonus overages, it’s not as impactful as it may seem. Spreading the hit over 2 years would have just kept more space to put the overages on this years cap. It probably wouldn’t be that far from a wash, but we obviously do not have those numbers right now. Just keep in mind Cat, Strome and Nylander are all on ELCs.

My bad, you're right on that one.

Right, their contracts go up next year, which is why I don't think it makes sense to spread next years cap.

As for the performance bonuses, do you or anyone know what they are specifically? I see the Hawks have 6.707 in potential bonuses according to capfriendly, but I'm curious to what the likelihood of those numbers being met.

 

[ColdSteel2]

My bad, you're right on that one.

Right, their contracts go up next year, which is why I don't think it makes sense to spread next years cap.

As for the performance bonuses, do you or anyone know what they are specifically? I see the Hawks have 6.707 in potential bonuses according to capfriendly, but I'm curious to what the likelihood of those numbers being met.

"A" Level Bonuses
"A" Bonuses are worth $212,500 each, to a maximum of $850,000 (maximum 4 achieved). They are achieved by each of:
-20 goals
-35 assists
-60 points
-Top six in Time on Ice among forwards on team (minimum 42 games)
-Top six in +/- among forwards on team (minimum 42 games)
-0.73 points per game (minimum 42 games)
"B" Level Bonuses
"B" Bonuses are worth a maximum of $2 Million, and the full amount of the bonus is awarded if any of the following is achieved:
-Top Ten in NHL Goals, Assists, points, or points per game (min 42 GP)
-Win any of the following trophies: Hart, Selke, Richard, Conn Smythe
-1st or 2nd team All-Star
-Puckpedia

Cat, Strome, Nylander and Kubalik all have a good chance of hitting “A” bonuses. Cat has a good chance of hitting “B” bonuses.