Post-Game Talk: Oilers 3, Bruins 2 (OT)

[Little Fury]

That were even talking about a teenager being the best option for a sheltered 5-6 D is absolutely nuts.

 

[guymez]

See or get?



Yup. The kid ain't learning anything in junior and it makes no sense to send him to the AHL.

He has been a decent third pairing defenceman.

I think he has been better than decent and its only been 4 NHL games him. There are subtleties in his game that I find very intriguing and his ability to move the puck is better than any dman currently on the team.
I mean think about that for a minute...his vision and puck moving ability is beyond anything we have seen since Pronger.
This is evident even before the game has slowed down for him. That is amazing IMO.

 

[Soundwave]

The whole "you can't learn nothing in junior" stuff is stupid. You can learn plenty, has he won a Memorial Cup in junior? Has he played at the World Juniors? No and no. There's plenty for him to learn, no player had his development destroyed because he stayed a little longer in junior.

Great players are always working to improve their game no matter what, if he goes to junior and decides to be lazy, well then I have to say the odds of him succeeding in the NHL with that mindset were low to begin with.

Leon got sent back down and it didn't hurt him at all.

 

[shoop]

That were even talking about a teenager being the best option for a sheltered 5-6 D is absolutely nuts.

That's a different question altogether. However, in the here and now Bouch is the best option in that role.

 

[MessierII]

Yup. The kid ain't learning anything in junior

Why not? Draisaitl went back to junior after putting up over 100 points. He came back a better player for it. Thank God MacT figured that out. Would have sure been nice to have that 7+ mil in cap space last year though.

 

[guymez]

Seemed to work for Draisaitl and countless other players over the years. Like I said in another post when has it damaged a players development getting that junior year? I can’t think of a case. I can however think of many cases where rushing players to the NHL has hurt development.

People forget how much of a grind 82 nhl games is.

Who said anything about playing 82 games? Certainly not me and I havent seen anybody else suggest that either. If he plays 40+ games in a role where he continues to keep the arrows pointed up then whats the issue?

The point being is you cant just apply the 'if he is a teenager then he has to go back to junior' mentality to every situation.
ESPECIALLY in this version of the NHL where the League is moving towards younger players at a very fast rate.

Lets see how this plays out instead of blindly applying an old and possibly outdated philosophy.

 

[shoop]

Why not? Draisaitl went back to junior after putting up over 100 points. He came back a better player for it. Thank God MacT figured that out. Would have sure been nice to have that 7+ mil in cap space last year though.

Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing.

Are you saying you want Bouch sent down before the eight or nine games where he burns a year of his ELC or do you want him sent down before he hits the 41 game mark like Draisaitl in 2014-15?

I definitely think Bouch as earned more than nine games. As for the 41? Too early to tell.

 

[MessierII]

Who said anything about playing 82 games? Certainly not me and I havent seen anybody else suggest that either. If he plays 40+ games in a role where he continues to keep the arrows pointed up then whats the issue?

It’s just not smart. You have a player with a similar skill set in Bear who can be recalled and is burning a ELC year either way. If your playing him for 40 some games you should send him down. Slide his contract and let him grow. Push his expansion draft eligibility back a season as well.

The potential downside of keeping him up far outweighs the potential upside of this perceived notion that he’ll develop better here when it may not even be the case in the first place.

 

[MessierII]

I definitely think Bouch as earned more than nine games.

How? By not looking terrible?

 

[guymez]

It’s just not smart. You have a player with a similar skill set in Bear who can be recalled and is burning a ELC year either way. If your playing him for 40 some games you should send him down. Slide his contract and let him grow. Push his expansion draft eligibility back a season as well.

The potential downside of keeping him up far outweighs the potential upside of this perceived notion that he’ll develop better here when it may not even be the case in the first place.

I think you might have missed the rest of my post.

I have included it below....

The point being is you cant just apply the 'if he is a teenager then he has to go back to junior' mentality to every situation.
ESPECIALLY in this version of the NHL where the League is moving towards younger players at a very fast rate.

Lets see how this plays out instead of blindly applying an old and possibly outdated philosophy.

 

[shoop]

How? By not looking terrible?

By being the fifth best defenceman on the team.

 

[Soundwave]

Weren't the Oilers forced to use a protection spot on Draisaitl because he went over 9 games as a rookie?

 

[guymez]

How? By not looking terrible?

Again...you are purposely misrepresenting his performance to support your position.
Are you even watching this player?

There is lots to see IMO and the good far outweighs the bad.

 

[McJadeddog]

Great games by Nurse and Talbot. Nurse is our best dman.

Yeah, Nurse has certainly been our best dman through 5 games. And if I'm honest, he was our best dman for the majority of last year as well actually.

 

[shoop]

Again...you are purposely misleading his performance to support your position.
Are you even watching this player?

There is lots to see IMO and the good far outweighs the bad.

It doesn't really seem like it.

A 19 year old coming in and not looking terrible is actually impressive in and of itself. Doing so on a team that is challenged past the top four D warrants sticking around for a while.

 

[Soundwave]

By being the fifth best defenceman on the team.

And that's fine. Just comes down to whether or not that (with virtually zero offence thus far) is potentially worth losing a Puljujarvi or Yamamoto if Seattle opts to expand a year later.

Hey they threw away Reinhart/16th pick, so I guess that would be par for the course for the Oilers to then throw away the 4th overall pick from the 2016 draft too.

 

[MessierII]

Lets see how this plays out instead of blindly applying an old and possibly outdated philosophy.

Like I said I’d love an example of when the extra year in junior hurt a players development. To me a player should have to make it impossible to send them down for it to make any sense burning an ELC year. Bouchard has just been ok and that’s not good enough. Very few rookie D men come into the NHL and play well in their draft +1 year and even the ones that do generally get lit up in the D zone. This isn’t an outdated philosophy it’s reality. If it was outdated you would think 1 D man from the 2017 draft would have played 40+ games in the nhl last year but they didn’t.

 

[McJadeddog]

Bouchard always appears composed, always puts the puck in a useful area even under pressure. 95% of the time onto an oilers stick.
Bouchard has more of a case to stay than Garrison and Benning at this point. If we want to win we should keep the best players playing.

I don't want to burn a year off his ELC, especially with the Seattle draft coming up, but.... he's been one of our best dmen so far, easily. Hard not to like what he's brought so far - even with him not getting onto the score sheet yet.

 

[MessierII]

Again...you are purposely misrepresenting his performance to support your position.
Are you even watching this player?

There is lots to see IMO and the good far outweighs the bad.

He does some things well no doubt but it hasn’t resulted in a single goal for the team yet. He’s also done a lot of things poorly in his own zone which has resulted in goals against the team.

 

[guymez]

It doesn't really seem like it.

A 19 year old coming in and not looking terrible is actually impressive in and of itself. Doing so on a team that is challenged past the top four D warrants sticking around for a while.

See...for me saying that he doesnt look terrible doesnt really accurately describe his level of play.

Bouchard has made a few mistakes which is to be expected. Hell...Nurse and Klefbom still make mistakes and (unlike Bouchard) the game has slowed down for them.

Bouchard has elite level vision and passing skills. Those are such valuable assets to have on the back end there is no way IMO someone can just arbitrarily suggest that he HAS to go back down to Junior.

If they can support Bouchard in a way that allows him to gain more experience and slow the game down that will help him make better defensive reads. If that happens then he will definitely develop more effectively than anything he can accomplish in Junior IMO.
At the same time he helps the team win.

 

[Little Fury]

That's a different question altogether. However, in the here and now Bouch is the best option in that role.

I think the difference between Bouchard and Bear is likely negligible. Neither guy is going to move the needle or make the playoffs more likel playing limited sheltered minutes.

 

[guymez]

He does some things well no doubt but it hasn’t resulted in a single goal for the team yet. He’s also done a lot of things poorly in his own zone which has resulted in goals against the team.

4 games. Its been 4 games.
Do you not think that this is a tad premature?

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don't want to burn a year off his ELC, especially with the Seattle draft coming up, but.... he's been one of our best dmen so far, easily. Hard not to like what he's brought so far - even with him not getting onto the score sheet yet.

I think he goes down after 9 games and Bear comes up to replace them. I think at the moment they are similar players eith Bouchard being the better. That said I don't think the difference right now is worth the implications to the expansion draft

 

[MessierII]

4 games. Its been 4 games.
Do you not think that this is a tad premature?

Which is why I’m willing to give him another 5. Unfortunately that’s the sample size we have to make a decision. Unless he has some truly special moments in these 5 games the risk of keeping him up just isn’t worth it.

 

[Skolman]