OHL vs. Russian Selects Game 2

[Blind Gardien]

Some of you are blind. It was a jab. As far as the crosscheck being harmless, it was with 10 times the force that the spear was. always get a kick out of the "Brian Williamses" of this nation who invariable blame the Canadian in any international incident. Zubarev started it without provocation, and if I had been Stewart I'd have pounded the crap out of him. The spear wasn't the right reaction, but to vilify Stewart only is a joke.

The "spearing motion" is vilifiable in general, IMO, regardless of the provocation. I think it's impossible for any of us to say much about whether it was a light "harmless jab" or whether it was a truly forceful attempt to impale Zubarev. I'd be leaning towards the "jab" assessment myself, which also seems to be backed up by how Zubarev responded, both while doing his best imitation of Ribeiro on the ice and how he seemed miraculously recovered on the bench. Although even with Ribeiro there are those who can and will argue to this day. But regardless, you just don't do that with your stick. Stewart could have dropped the gloves, he didn't, bad mistake. He deserves some degree of vilification for sure.

The coach should be suspended for the rest of the challenge. Not sending Zubarev to the dressing room and allowing him to jump back on the ice was unconscionable.

There seems to be a fair bit of confusion about it. I wasn't aware at the time of the 5-minute major to Zubarev (warranted) for his cross-checks to Stewart's head. Presumably they put somebody else in the box to serve it, if Zubarev was deemed to be injured? Yes, no? If not, were the Russians even aware of the penalty? It's too long after the fact, and maybe I was just taken in by broadcasting errors, but I really thought it was Zubarev coming back after Downie. Lange has the penalties in the revised boxscore, but there was also a bit of skirmishing around the refs apart from the ?Zubarev?/Downie/linesmen engagement, and in that skirmish one of the Russians clearly shoved and punched at one of the refs. Perhaps that was Lange and that's what his penalties were for?

Well, can't wait for Wednesday night, anyway.

 

[canucksfan]

Terrible spear by Stewart. Just disgusting. Tainted anything the rest of the team did.

He could have put the Russian kid in hospital. Lucky that the guy wasn't more seriously hurt or criminal charges could have been brought.

Gutless play by Stewart.

I am not a fan of what Stewart did. However, he didn't spear him that bad and it's being played under international rules and fighting isn't allowed. I would have loved to see him drop the gloves and beat the crap out of him. He took three cross-checks to the head so you knew he was going to do someting.

When I think about it Lange was the guy that punched the ref so it must have been #3 that went after Downie.

Wednesday should be interesting. I hope to go see the Russians practice.

 

[espo*]

What a great game.The zebras called the game they way it should be done in the NHL and consequently we got a dandy last night.

Skating/skill and great physical play............penalties called when warranted for the most part.

NHL refs please take note!!

 

[Blind Gardien]

How's McNeill doing?

He did his thing... he scored, had another great chance on the PP too, both times sneaking in from the point. The offensive side of the game is his forte, and if anything I think he excels more in a fast-paced game like this than he does sometimes in the OHL where he doesn't have to keep on his toes and can start to think too much in his own zone. He played well, and I think he'll be a good NHL point-man on D one day... you know, one of those Poti/Sopel-like guys who - so long as they're used properly and are in the right environment - are quite valuable to a team. Of course, when things go wrong, they get some haters on their cases too. I don't think it will translate into a Team Canada camp invite for McNeill, however. It shouldn't be taken as a disappointing sign if he isn't invited, IMO, he is still playing well and doing his thing just fine.

 

[therealdeal]

What a great game.The zebras called the game they way it should be done in the NHL and consequently we got a dandy last night.

Skating/skill and great physical play............penalties called when warranted for the most part.

NHL refs please take note!!

I couldn't disagree with you more, that was a totally poorly called game. Its no surprise emotions got out of hand, they always do when a game is reffed like that.

Should have been way more hooking and holding calls, both ways, Canada should have gotten a few charging calls, and there definetly should have been a clipping call or something on the guy that turtled on O'Marra.

And there is still confusion on whether or not Zubarev got a 5 at the end.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I couldn't disagree with you more, that was a totally poorly called game. Its no surprise emotions got out of hand, they always do when a game is reffed like that.

Should have been way more hooking and holding calls, both ways, Canada should have gotten a few charging calls, and there definetly should have been a clipping call or something on the guy that turtled on O'Marra.

And there is still confusion on whether or not Zubarev got a 5 at the end.

It *was* a complete departure from the way that OHL games are usually called, at any rate. There would have been around 20 minors per side, no flow, no hitting, and ultimately no tempers boiling over at the end if it had been called according to standard OHL procedure. (Or at least, the tempers would have boiled over purely onto the officials and not so much onto the opposing players, perhaps).

However, I have to admit that it was a lot more entertaining to watch the way it was called instead of the way it "should have been called".

 

[turnbuckle*]

The "spearing motion" is vilifiable in general, IMO, regardless of the provocation. I think it's impossible for any of us to say much about whether it was a light "harmless jab" or whether it was a truly forceful attempt to impale Zubarev. I'd be leaning towards the "jab" assessment myself, which also seems to be backed up by how Zubarev responded, both while doing his best imitation of Ribeiro on the ice and how he seemed miraculously recovered on the bench. Although even with Ribeiro there are those who can and will argue to this day. But regardless, you just don't do that with your stick. Stewart could have dropped the gloves, he didn't, bad mistake. He deserves some degree of vilification for sure.
There seems to be a fair bit of confusion about it. I wasn't aware at the time of the 5-minute major to Zubarev (warranted) for his cross-checks to Stewart's head. Presumably they put somebody else in the box to serve it, if Zubarev was deemed to be injured? Yes, no? If not, were the Russians even aware of the penalty? It's too long after the fact, and maybe I was just taken in by broadcasting errors, but I really thought it was Zubarev coming back after Downie. Lange has the penalties in the revised boxscore, but there was also a bit of skirmishing around the refs apart from the ?Zubarev?/Downie/linesmen engagement, and in that skirmish one of the Russians clearly shoved and punched at one of the refs. Perhaps that was Lange and that's what his penalties were for?

Well, can't wait for Wednesday night, anyway.

i didn't say Stewart shouldn't be vilified, I said he shouldn't be the only one. Why is everyone either ignoring the initial crosscheck or glossing it over? it was quite vicious, and it was what started it. Even on hockeycentral at noon, the little jab by Stewart is deemed "vicious", the hard crosscheck by Zubarev not even mentioned. Makes me sick.

Where I come from, a hard crosscheck across the head hurts a lot worse than a jab in the stomach with the blade of a stick. why is the crosscheck to the head less excusable...I don't get it. Yeah it stings, but 20 seconds later you're fine. I don't like spears, but why should they be way more loathesome than crosschecks to the brain? Zubarev applies that crosscheck to a Sam Gagner and he might be out six months with a severe concussion after he strikes the ice. Name the the last player who was out six months from a spear.

I just like to see equity in these situations. Anyone with two eyes knew Zubarev was out of the game after that crosscheck - I don't buy the "coaches didn't know he as penalized" excuse.

Zubarev wasn't the player who punched the ref apparently. that's another one that should be banned from international competition.

 

[Marchy63]

One of the players took a swing at the Ref and #3 Zubarev tried to fight the lineman that almost choked him out. Also Zubarev jumped off the bench after the whistle to fight Downie, it was the Refs mistake for not making the Russian trainer to take him to the locker room and not the bench(since he was given a penalty with only 24 seconds left).

 

[Blind Gardien]

i didn't say Stewart shouldn't be vilified, I said he shouldn't be the only one.

Gotcha... at a quick read I didn't pick up the nuance with your last sentence, my apology.

Why is everyone either ignoring the initial crosscheck or glossing it over? it was quite vicious, and it was what started it. Even on hockeycentral at noon, the little jab by Stewart is deemed "vicious", the hard crosscheck by Zubarev not even mentioned. Makes me sick.

Just goes to show that marketing works. Zubarev certainly sold the viciousness of the spear. Stewart, well, few people notice how the anguish of the vicious crosschecks was translated into a completely out-of-character response reaction from him. Reminds me a bit of the Perezhogin incident. I guess everybody can make their own decision about which reaction is actually the worse one. Curling up and faking an injury (if that's what happened... we can't know) would be harder to understand in my books.

I just like to see equity in these situations. Anyone with two eyes knew Zubarev was out of the game after that crosscheck - I don't buy the "coaches didn't know he as penalized" excuse.

I have no idea what the coaches knew or didn't know. Occam's razor just seems to suggest to me that you don't keep a player on the bench if you think he's either (a) seriously hurt and/or (b) just been handed a 5-minute penalty with 30 seconds left in the game. So it's easy enough for me to consider that maybe there was some kind of miscommunication in this situation and the staff didn't know... the broadcasters didn't seem to know either. Sitting in my living room watching and listening, I didn't know. The alternative, that the coaches intentionally kept Zubarev, knowing he shouldn't be there, just doesn't seem like the obvious answer (although I don't deny it as a possibility either).

Zubarev wasn't the player who punched the ref apparently. that's another one that should be banned from international competition.

I wonder who really has jurisdiction in this tournament? Basically just Hockey Canada? So I guess they can ban him from the rest of the series, although the Russians are already steamed, they clearly feel they were jobbed by the refs, and it might not be too much of a stretch to think they'd just go home or something. I don't know if Hockey Canada really has much incentive to go there, just to exact a relatively meaningless 2-game suspension. Personally, I would trust the Western boys to impose a more fitting penalty than anything Hockey Canada could come up with.

 

[espo*]

I couldn't disagree with you more, that was a totally poorly called game. Its no surprise emotions got out of hand, they always do when a game is reffed like that.

Should have been way more hooking and holding calls, both ways, Canada should have gotten a few charging calls, and there definetly should have been a clipping call or something on the guy that turtled on O'Marra.

And there is still confusion on whether or not Zubarev got a 5 at the end.

I loved it.The players were able to skate AND hit.There was'nt an overabundance of penalties centered on plays the ref could'nt even see so he just assumed it was a penalty because he saw a sick near a body,no cheesy lifting the stick phantom penalties and most of all........................big intense checks were fully allowed!! Sure,they could have cracked down on some stuff that resulted in the game getting antsy at the end but the intensity and speed was first rate.Contrast this with the becoming quite regular ******** marathon penalty exhibition in the Nhl with sparse physical play and i don't see how you could'nt have liked their job last night.Could they have been better?...............sure.But could they have been NHL bad and tottaly ruined what everyone universally voiced as a dandy game last night? Definately.

They could have been NHL reffing bad.

Last night,regardless of the mistakes and imperfection they did exhibit...................we got real Hockey.

That's all i want.Seems like a few others do too.

 

[canucksfan]

I loved it.The players were able to skate AND hit.There was'nt an overabundance of penalties centered on plays the ref could'nt even see so he just assumed it was a penalty because he saw a sick near a body,no cheesy lifting the stick phantom penalties and most of all........................big intense checks were fully allowed!! Sure,they could have cracked down on some stuff that resulted in the game getting antsy at the end but the intensity and speed was first rate.Contrast this with the becoming quite regular ******** marathon penalty exhibition in the Nhl with sparse physical play and i don't see how you could'nt have liked their job last night.Could they have been better?...............sure.But could they have been NHL bad and tottaly ruined what everyone universally voiced as a dandy game last night? Definately.

They could have been NHL reffing bad.

Last night,regardless of the mistakes and imperfection they did exhibit...................we got real Hockey.

That's all i want.Seems like a few others do too.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[therealdeal]

I loved it.The players were able to skate AND hit.There was'nt an overabundance of penalties centered on plays the ref could'nt even see so he just assumed it was a penalty because he saw a sick near a body,no cheesy lifting the stick phantom penalties and most of all........................big intense checks were fully allowed!! Sure,they could have cracked down on some stuff that resulted in the game getting antsy at the end but the intensity and speed was first rate.Contrast this with the becoming quite regular ******** marathon penalty exhibition in the Nhl with sparse physical play and i don't see how you could'nt have liked their job last night.Could they have been better?...............sure.But could they have been NHL bad and tottaly ruined what everyone universally voiced as a dandy game last night? Definately.

They could have been NHL reffing bad.

Last night,regardless of the mistakes and imperfection they did exhibit...................we got real Hockey.

That's all i want.Seems like a few others do too.

Don't blame the refs the players not being able to keep their sticks off each, a hook is a hook, and it should be called that way, and there should have been more in that game, and a ton more holding.

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

Chris Stewart picked up a three game suspension for his spear.

It would be insanely unfair if the end of Zubarev's punishment was being removed from 2 meaningless Canada-Russia games.

 

[Ipousse Lapuck]

3 penalties we're given for biting haha (mordre means biting)

 

[espo*]

Don't blame the refs the players not being able to keep their sticks off each, a hook is a hook, and it should be called that way, and there should have been more in that game, and a ton more holding.

I'll never blame NHL refs for calling the hooking and holding,that's proper and i was calling for that for years.

It's the other stuff i mentioned that has become a big problem.And when those calls and game calling style is put on top of legit penalties you just get a special teams game/league and that's not hockey.Some games the nhl refs do a pretty good job and the hockey is very good but far too many since the lockout are special teams games and there is no need of it.It's fine to call the stubborn players who won't give up the hooking penalties,but when they add a bunch of stupid penalties on top of it it get's so crazy.They are calling nice hits and battles penalties and it kills the game.A lot of times they just call penalties when they see a stick off the ice near the player and just call a penalty because they think he must be hooking or holding the other player............terrible.

I have no idea when lifting a stick became a penalty but it seems to be in todays nhl,they call it so much now it's basically illegal and that's crazy.

They have to start doing a much better job IMO.

 

[shveik]

i didn't say Stewart shouldn't be vilified, I said he shouldn't be the only one. Why is everyone either ignoring the initial crosscheck or glossing it over? it was quite vicious, and it was what started it. Even on hockeycentral at noon, the little jab by Stewart is deemed "vicious", the hard crosscheck by Zubarev not even mentioned. Makes me sick.

Where I come from, a hard crosscheck across the head hurts a lot worse than a jab in the stomach with the blade of a stick. why is the crosscheck to the head less excusable...I don't get it. Yeah it stings, but 20 seconds later you're fine. I don't like spears, but why should they be way more loathesome than crosschecks to the brain? Zubarev applies that crosscheck to a Sam Gagner and he might be out six months with a severe concussion after he strikes the ice. Name the the last player who was out six months from a spear.

Quit being so melodramatic. Crosscheck to the brain? He got Stewart's helmet. Whether the intent want to rile up Stewart to goad him into a fight, or to hurt him, who knows. All I am saying, by the way Zubarev's hands were moving to me it did not look like much of a crosscheck. In the case of Stewart, the motion is very clear on the replays, again to me. He drops his shoulders with the move exactly the way I would do it if I wanted to put my weight into it, so I do not have any doubt that there was considerable force behind the spear. So if it did get Zubarev in the right spot, it would hurt like hell, and could cause an injury. And I am not sure about "how many people are hurt by a spear" argument. I would say that spearing is sort of like kicking, it's a big no-no precisely because of a great potential for injury. There aren't many people injured by a spear, since in the NHL you get a double minor if you do not even connect with it.

As far as villifying, it is hard for me to point at either player and say that they are a bad apple. It was at the end of an emotional game, and things got a bit out of control. So please do not be sick, nobody is building gallows just yet. And please learn to deal with the fact that somebody may have an opinion different from yours.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

He could have put the Russian kid in hospital. Lucky that the guy wasn't more seriously hurt or criminal charges could have been brought.

Charges? Not a chance. Lets not be over-dramatic here. What Stewart did was nothing close to what Marty McSorley and Todd Bertuzzi got charged for in BC. If anything, the crosschecks to the head were closer to assault.

All that is listed on the official online game sheet is a Major for Crosschecking to Zubarev, and Match Penalties for Stewart, Downie and 2 for Lange (that's a Russian name?). It must have taken a while for the officials to review the video after the game and assess all the penalties. I am surprised that the abuse of official penalties aren't listed though. Those penalties were just as obvious as the crosschecks and spear. (It was AWESOME to see the linesman basically ragdoll Zubarev.) The lack of those penalties online just screams "we don't want that bad publicity" on the CHL's behalf.

I am pretty sure these games are called under the host league's rulebook. Does anybody know which logo was on the officials' jerseys? If they wore the OHL logo, the game was played under OHL rules.

They are calling nice hits and battles penalties and it kills the game.

Clean or not, a lot of hits can easily be classified as Interference (late or before two opponents get to the puck), Charging (traveling from a distance) and Roughing (hands up when throwing the hit). Like it or not, they're penalties. NHL referees have been instructed to call games to the letter of the law. If you don't like seeing those penalties, your beef is with the NHL, not its referees.

 

[Dig Out Your Soul]

I am pretty sure these games are called under the host league's rulebook. Does anybody know which logo was on the officials' jerseys? If they wore the OHL logo, the game was played under OHL rules.

They were random Joe Blow OHL refs. I'm not positive, but pretty sure that their jerseys would have the OHL logo. I see no reason why they'd change logos for one game.

 

[BCCHL inactive]

They were random Joe Blow OHL refs. I'm not positive, but pretty sure that their jerseys would have the OHL logo. I see no reason why they'd change logos for one game.

A lot of Canadian junior hockey officials hold an IIHF license. If they work IIHF sanctioned games, they wear the IIHF logo.

The logo on the officials' jerseys MUST be that of the league/federation that is sanctioning the game. If they wore their OHL jerseys, this game was played under OHL rules. It's that simple.

 

[espo*]

Clean or not, a lot of hits can easily be classified as Interference (late or before two opponents get to the puck), Charging ng the hit). Like it or not, they're penalties. NHL referees have been instructed to call games to the letter of the law. If you don't like seeing those penalties, your beef is with the NHL, not its referees.[/QUOTE]

O.K,my beef is with the nhl then. That does'nt change how i feel about the game calling in today's NHL.

I prefer more along the type of game played betwen the Russians and oHL guys the other night and i would'nt be surprised if most fans do too.

It was good hockey.

 

[Blind Gardien]

Chris Stewart picked up a three game suspension for his spear.

It would be insanely unfair if the end of Zubarev's punishment was being removed from 2 meaningless Canada-Russia games.

I'm surprised that Stewart was suspended, but all in all it's a good signal sent by the OHL. Hold your player accountable for his transgressions, *regardless* of whether the other side holds their player accountable or not. Like I said above, I'd actually prefer to have Zubarev (and Lange) playing out West... it will make the games more interesting. Let's not punish the fans along with the players, hey?