OHL - Realignment

frontsfan2005

Registered User
Mar 26, 2006
789
260
Ontario, Canada
I didn't misread anything. Here, let me help you remember:



The above is factually incorrect, and that was what I was responding to. In a subsequent post you made the comparison to the 67s.

Owen Sound is in a remote part of the province, whether you want to believe it or not. It's hard to get to, have you ever driven up highway 6 in the winter months? It's called the "snow belt" for a reason. The population of Owen Sound is just over 20,000, by far the smallest OHL city. The closest "big" city to Owen Sound would be Guelph, a two hour trek along highway 6. A nice drive through places like Chatsworth, Durham, Mt. Forest, Arthur and Fergus along a single lane highway (although in some parts they created "passing" lanes for a few kilometres). Some close by towns are Wiarton (pop. 2,000), Southampton (pop. 3,000) and Meaford (14,000).

By comparision, Ottawa is a city of over a million people, has the city of Gatineau just across the Ottawa River, and the city of Montreal (population 3,5000,000) about two hours away. Ottawa has the 416 and 417 running through the city, and is easy to get to via the 401. The closest OHL city to Ottawa is Kingston, which is two hours away via the 401 and 416, two major highways. Other towns close by are Cornwall (pop. 50,000) and Aylmer, Quebec (pop. 42,000). Ottawa also has a major international airport, numerous trains and buses coming from Toronto, Montreal, etc... every day.

Divisional opponents travel time (using Google Maps):

Owen Sound to Guelph (1hr 52 mins along hwy 6)
Owen Sound to Kitchener (2 hr 1 min along hwy 6 to Fergus, then county road 17 into KW)
Owen Sound to London (2 hr 50 min along hwy 6 to Mt. Forest, hwy 89 through Minto, hwy 23 to hwy 7, then hwy 4 into London)
Owen Sound to Erie (5+ hours along Hwy 6 into Hamilton, QEW through St. Catharines into Niagara Falls, wait at border, get on to I-90 in Buffalo and follow into Erie)

Yea, that's not remote...

Ottawa to Kingston (1 hr 57 min along Hwy 416 to Hwy 401)
Ottawa to Belleville (2 hr 35 min along Hwy 416 to Hwy 401)
Ottawa to Oshawa (3 hr 41 min along Hwy 416 to Hwy 401)
Ottawa to Peterborough (3 hr 45 min along Hwy 416 to Hwy 401, then to Hwy 7) or (3 hr 20 min along Hwy 417 to Hwy 7)

I think most people would rather have Ottawa's travel schedule than Owen Sound if given the option, might be a bit further (not in the case with Erie) but a lot more direct and easier to get to.
 

krazy kanuck

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
2,768
0
Alberta
Owen Sound is in a remote part of the province, whether you want to believe it or not. It's hard to get to, have you ever driven up highway 6 in the winter months?

Many times. I've lived in Barrie, Brantford, Georgetown, London, Newmarket, Orillia, Ottawa and Richmond Hill...with immediate family in Meaford, Midland, Toronto and Windsor. I've probably driven a total of about 1,000,000 km on every reasonable highway (and many not so reasonable) from Sarnia and Windsor to Cornwall and Ottawa, up to Thunder Bay and almost everywhere in between in all seasons. Flown in to and out of Ontario airports YKF, YKZ, YOW, YQT, YXU, YTZ, YYZ, and YZR.

Now that I've established my travel history, I will suggest that driving up highway 6 is certainly no more difficult than driving to SSM, North Bay or Sudbury. Heck, the absolute worst snow drive I've ever dealt with was bringing my son back from a hockey tournament down 115 from Peterborough to the 401.

Owen Sound to Erie (5+ hours along Hwy 6 into Hamilton, QEW through St. Catharines into Niagara Falls, wait at border, get on to I-90 in Buffalo and follow into Erie)

Yea, that's not remote...

You keep coming back to the Erie example to prove your point but it's not germane. Just because Owen Sound is 5+ hours from Erie doesn't make it remote. Owen Sound is closer to Toronto than most OHL cities including Kingston for goodness sake. Assuming you don't really mean "remote" and what you really mean is proximity to other OHL cities, you're still off. In your examples above you're ignoring Barrie in the closest cities to Owen Sound, probably because they aren't in the same division but as has already been pointed out numerous times there will never be a balanced schedule in the OHL with the current number of games so I'm not sure that matters either. Owen Sound isn't the outlier geographically when you look at OHL cities - Erie, Plymouth and SSM, maybe North Bay, Ottawa and Sudbury are.
 
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mouse 29

Registered User
Apr 11, 2013
778
2
Barrie
All this talk about realignment sounds more like change for the sake of change. All because Brampton moved to North Bay!

So what happens when Missy moves, or Erie, or Belleville, or Sarnia, etc decide to move?

Do we re-align every time?
 

frontsfan2005

Registered User
Mar 26, 2006
789
260
Ontario, Canada
Many times. I've lived in Barrie, Brantford, Georgetown, London, Newmarket, Orillia, Ottawa and Richmond Hill...with immediate family in Meaford, Midland, Toronto and Windsor. I've probably driven a total of about 1,000,000 km on every reasonable highway (and many not so reasonable) from Sarnia and Windsor to Cornwall and Ottawa, up to Thunder Bay and almost everywhere in between in all seasons. Flown in to and out of Ontario airports YKF, YKZ, YOW, YQT, YXU, YTZ, YYZ, and YZR.

Now that I've established my travel history, I will suggest that driving up highway 6 is certainly no more difficult than driving to SSM, North Bay or Sudbury. Heck, the absolute worst snow drive I've ever dealt with was bringing my son back from a hockey tournament down 115 from Peterborough to the 401.



You keep coming back to the Erie example to prove your point but it's not germane. Just because Owen Sound is 5+ hours from Erie doesn't make it remote. Owen Sound is closer to Toronto than most OHL cities including Kingston for goodness sake. Assuming you don't really mean "remote" and what you really mean is proximity to other OHL cities, you're still off. In your examples above you're ignoring Barrie in the closest cities to Owen Sound, probably because they aren't in the same division but as has already been pointed out numerous times there will never be a balanced schedule in the OHL with the current number of games so I'm not sure that matters either. Owen Sound isn't the outlier geographically when you look at OHL cities - Erie, Plymouth and SSM, maybe North Bay, Ottawa and Sudbury are.

Funny, Kingston is a whole 12 minutes away farther from Toronto than Owen Sound is, going along a 400 series highway. I think if you asked any team bus driver if they would rather go down the 401 or up Hwy 6, I`m willing to bet that they would rather take the 401 for the extra 12 minutes. That`s google maps time, which I believe is using the speed limit. Who actually drives 100 on the 401? Most team buses certainly don't... If you get behind a driver doing 75-80 on highway 6, theres a good chance you'll be stuck behind the person for a good chunk of time. So in reality, it's most likely quicker to get from Toronto to Kingston than Owen Sound. Although, I don't quite know what your point is, Toronto doesn't have an OHL team, and isn't the centre of OHL universe...

Owen Sound is remote in relative to teams in their division, and is in a pretty unpopulated part of the province. The closest town of over 20,000 to Owen Sound is what, Orangeville maybe? A good 90 minute drive. And Owen Sound isn't a booming metropolis to start with, every other OHL city is at least double the size.

I used to live along highway 6 in two of those towns where the highway goes through. Trust me, it can get downright nasty in the winter. Like I said, that part of Ontario is called the snowbelt for a reason. And it's not an easy highway to drive on to start with in good weather. If there happens to be an accident or it's shut down due to poor weather, good luck on one of the detour routes, some of those backroads are horrible, some aren't even paved...

If you swap Owen Sound and Niagara, you solve a problem in regards to the schedule imbalance with the Otters-IceDogs and Attack-Colts. If they already play each other six times a year, why not just swap them? Owen Sound's travel schedule would be about the same as Niagara's is now if placed in the Central. Every Midwest team would benefit travel wise if Niagara was placed in there, plus you solve one of the many problems with the OHL schedule, getting rid of an unnecessary schedule imbalance involving those four teams. If you started the league out from scratch today, there's no way Erie and Niagara would be in separate divisions, let alone conferences. Every single divisional road trip Erie does, they drive through St. Catharines. Doesn't it make sense that they should be in the same division?

Is there other problems with the schedule? Sure, a team like the Soo will always have an unbalanced schedule due to their location, but the league needs to make it as balanced and fair as they possibly can. If Owen Sound is happy in the Midwest, then they shouldn't play Barrie six times a year. Neither should Niagara and Erie, they are in separate conferences.

mouse 29 said:
All this talk about realignment sounds more like change for the sake of change. All because Brampton moved to North Bay!

So what happens when Missy moves, or Erie, or Belleville, or Sarnia, etc decide to move?

Do we re-align every time?

This talk of realignment doesn't have anything to do with Brampton to North Bay, it's more that the Erie and Niagara situation is settled. The Otters are staying in Erie long term, so is Niagara with their new building. Those teams want to and should be in the same division. The realignment in the original article would have 18 happy teams and two unhappy (Owen Sound and Barrie). We'll see what happens.
 

krazy kanuck

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
2,768
0
Alberta
Although, I don't quite know what your point is, Toronto doesn't have an OHL team, and isn't the centre of OHL universe...

My point is, remote is defined as...never mind. You're right.

Is there other problems with the schedule? Sure, a team like the Soo will always have an unbalanced schedule due to their location, but the league needs to make it as balanced and fair as they possibly can.

Not sure why. I think the bigger concern is travel for high school aged kids, not necessarily the conferences they play in.

The realignment in the original article would have 18 happy teams and two unhappy (Owen Sound and Barrie). We'll see what happens.

If the league is considering a change, I hope they go with the realignment that was suggested by nosl. Makes much more sense.

  • Belleville
  • Kingston
  • Oshawa
  • Ottawa
  • Peterborough

  • Barrie
  • Mississauga
  • North Bay
  • Owen Sound
  • Sudbury

  • Erie
  • Guelph
  • Kitchener
  • London
  • Niagara

  • Plymouth
  • Saginaw
  • Sarnia
  • Sault-Ste-Marie
  • Windsor
 

Greatger

Registered User
May 11, 2007
414
52
All this talk about realignment sounds more like change for the sake of change. All because Brampton moved to North Bay!

Seems to me that we (North Bay) are still following Bramptons schedule & divison alignment. We were hoping that the alignment & scheduling would have been changed before the season had started but for some reason it did not. Believe me we aren't too happy about this either but I do agree that swapping Owen Sound and Niagara would be a start.
 
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Marky9er

Registered User
Jan 30, 2008
7,476
729
Seems to me that we (North Bay) are still following Bramptons schedule & divison alignment. We were hoping that the alignment & scheduling would have been changed before the season had started but for some reason it did not. Believe me we aren't too happy about this either but I do agree that swapping Owen Sound and Niagara would be a start.
Good to hear some fans are finally following Bramptons schedule. :)
 

Greatger

Registered User
May 11, 2007
414
52
Good to hear some fans are finally following Bramptons schedule. :)

Yes unfortunately we had to follow the old Brampton schedule. Hopefully this will get changed next season. Along with the divisional alignment.
 

battfan888

Podcaster
Feb 29, 2012
928
138
Sleeman Centre
The only difference between Brampton and North Bays schedule is they took 2 of the 8 games away from Mississauga and gave them to the Soo.

Not sure what the problem with North Bays schedule is, the Cents were in the Central division before their move. Ironically when the Cents moved to Saginaw Brampton got the Cents old spot in the central with Barrie, missy, Sudbury and Toronto.
 

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