OHL no longer for just the boys

[Otto]

I believe you’re doing what they refer to as “virtue signalling”
Aside from her, what about the other kids that are going to go to camp for 2 days, and then get sent home with basically no chance of making the team?

What about them? You think the kids don't know what to expect going on? You think they don't want the opportunity to show their stuff?

You're so concerned about these kids, why is it all of a sudden an "issue" this year?

 

[ohloutsider]

It's only an "issue" because you think it is.

Interesting though, never any talk about shortening the draft until a female gets picked...

Well actually I mused about the draft going down to 10 rounds on the Windsor thread a few days before the draft and this has nothing to do with this thread so carry on.

 

[Truthking]

What about them? You think the kids don't know what to expect going on? You think they don't want the opportunity to show their stuff?

You're so concerned about these kids, why is it all of a sudden an "issue" this year?

I’m sure they do want to show their stuff, but if the amount of 16 year olds able to be kept is limited, what is the point of having that many rounds when the odds of any of them ever playing is beyond minuscule?
It’s just an observation, I’m not attacking these kids potential futures nor was I “concerned”.
The nfl has 52 man rosters and a practice squad and they have 7 rounds. Do you have any answer has to why this many rounds is necessary or do you just want to act like the authority on all things hockey?

 

[OMG67]

It's only an "issue" because you think it is.

Interesting though, never any talk about shortening the draft until a female gets picked...

I believe there has been talk about it. I believe it was started when the under-18 draft was meaningless and the discussion was centred around making it a lessor Priority Draft and a potentially more meaningful under-18 draft.

 

[OMG67]

I’m sure they do want to show their stuff, but if the amount of 16 year olds able to be kept is limited, what is the point of having that many rounds when the odds of any of them ever playing is beyond minuscule?
It’s just an observation, I’m not attacking these kids potential futures nor was I “concerned”.
The nfl has 52 man rosters and a practice squad and they have 7 rounds. Do you have any answer has to why this many rounds is necessary or do you just want to act like the authority on all things hockey?

IIRC, the OHL Draft used to consist of 3 or 4 rounds where they could pick 16 year old players and then those players could be signed ad play as underage players. I can’t remember when they changed this but it was sometime around late 90’s I think. They then went to a full 16 year old draft and changed the rules for which players you could sign. I think it is your first three picks plus one more player of any round? Something like that. I know if I have it wrong, someone will correct me.

 

[OMG67]

No one has made an argument yet that suggests this was a meaningful pick for a “prospect” other than, “Well, it is a 14th round pick. How many 14th round picks ever play in the OHL anyway?”

This does beg the question that if teams can afford to simply throw away a pick or make picks knowing the players have a snowball’s chance in Hell of being an OHL player, why bother with those picks at all? It is a valid question.

 

[OMG67]

Do you have an issue with this?

I do. The same people suggesting she is a 14th round pick getting way too much attention on this forum are the same people suggesting there is no problem with the media (and the OHL Website prominently featuring her as a 14th round pick) placing a significant emphasis on her being the first female drafted.

You know as well as I do that if she attends training camp, she will gobble up virtually all the attention at camp. Again, the same people criticizing guys like me for being critical of the pick have zero issues with the media attention.

That rings quite hypocritical from where I sit.

 

[OHLTG]

I do. The same people suggesting she is a 14th round pick getting way too much attention on this forum are the same people suggesting there is no problem with the media (and the OHL Website prominently featuring her as a 14th round pick) placing a significant emphasis on her being the first female drafted.

You know as well as I do that if she attends training camp, she will gobble up virtually all the attention at camp. Again, the same people criticizing guys like me for being critical of the pick have zero issues with the media attention.

That rings quite hypocritical from where I sit.

Will she get all of the attention? No. The Sting will likely have multiple stories coming out of camp. However, whether people like it or not, she's one of those stories. Maybe one of the bigger ones, too (depending on how the summer goes). The first female drafted into the OHL, regardless of whether they're taken in the first round or 15th, is a big deal. Assuming she goes to camp (as opposed to signing elsewhere beforehand), I hope she silences her critics and does well. She could be a huge inspiration (if she's not already).

 

[windsor7]

Will she get all of the attention? No. The Sting will likely have multiple stories coming out of camp. However, whether people like it or not, she's one of those stories. Maybe one of the bigger ones, too (depending on how the summer goes). The first female drafted into the OHL, regardless of whether they're taken in the first round or 15th, is a big deal. Assuming she goes to camp (as opposed to signing elsewhere beforehand), I hope she silences her critics and does well. She could be a huge inspiration (if she's not already).

She will be the biggest story by the media in Sarnia camp if she attends. If she doesnt attend ut will still be a decent story for the media.

 

[Otto]

I’m sure they do want to show their stuff, but if the amount of 16 year olds able to be kept is limited, what is the point of having that many rounds when the odds of any of them ever playing is beyond minuscule?
It’s just an observation, I’m not attacking these kids potential futures nor was I “concerned”.
The nfl has 52 man rosters and a practice squad and they have 7 rounds. Do you have any answer has to why this many rounds is necessary or do you just want to act like the authority on all things hockey?

The NFL also doesn't have a plethora of options to send players to and they don't have a maximum age level. The NFL also doesn't have competition where a player can choose to play in another league.

 

[OMG67]

The NFL also doesn't have a plethora of options to send players to and they don't have a maximum age level. The NFL also doesn't have competition where a player can choose to play in another league.

These are all good points.

But, at the end of the day, none of them address the issue of why we rarely see a player drafted past the 10th round play as a regular OHLer. That brings us back to whether having a deep draft has merit.

Don’t get me wrong. Having a deep draft doesn’t hurt anyone and it also provides enough bodies to fill two scrimmage teams at training camp. But, other than that, I am not sure what good it actually does. If a player (undrafted) matures late and they rise as 18 year olds, they usually find their way to the OHL at some point if they aren’t NCAA committed.

 

[Otto]

These are all good points.

But, at the end of the day, none of them address the issue of why we rarely see a player drafted past the 10th round play as a regular OHLer. That brings us back to whether having a deep draft has merit.

Don’t get me wrong. Having a deep draft doesn’t hurt anyone and it also provides enough bodies to fill two scrimmage teams at training camp. But, other than that, I am not sure what good it actually does. If a player (undrafted) matures late and they rise as 18 year olds, they usually find their way to the OHL at some point if they aren’t NCAA committed.

I think you'll have a hard time convincing OHL teams to cut the draft down in order to give the USHL and NCAA what is essentially exclusive negotiating rights

 

[OMG67]

I think you'll have a hard time convincing OHL teams to cut the draft down in order to give the USHL and NCAA what is essentially exclusive negotiating rights

They already do have negotiating rights. OHL teams can only sign a limited number of 16 year olds which means the majority of their draft picks are free agents from a US Program perspective. In addition, other than affiliate contracts, they only have 30 cards to use on players.

If I had to hazard a guess, half of the draft picks every year are not signed to any type of contract and each of the players is also eligible to be drafted to the USHL and speak with NCAA schools.

 

[Truthking]

They already do have negotiating rights. OHL teams can only sign a limited number of 16 year olds which means the majority of their draft picks are free agents from a US Program perspective. In addition, other than affiliate contracts, they only have 30 cards to use on players.

If I had to hazard a guess, half of the draft picks every year are not signed to any type of contract and each of the players is also eligible to be drafted to the USHL and speak with NCAA schools.

I’m guessing it’s more like 3/4 are unsigned.

 

[Otto]

They already do have negotiating rights. OHL teams can only sign a limited number of 16 year olds which means the majority of their draft picks are free agents from a US Program perspective. In addition, other than affiliate contracts, they only have 30 cards to use on players.

If I had to hazard a guess, half of the draft picks every year are not signed to any type of contract and each of the players is also eligible to be drafted to the USHL and speak with NCAA schools.

Not exclusive rights though. Even if players are not signed the lines of communication are open. Those unsigned 16 year olds may be playing elsewhere with other prospects, or they may be invited back the next season. If they are not talking to OHL teams until they are 17 , and they have had that extra year to discuss other options without listening to the OHL team then they are more likely to look elsewhere

 

[Otto]

IIRC, the OHL Draft used to consist of 3 or 4 rounds where they could pick 16 year old players and then those players could be signed ad play as underage players. I can’t remember when they changed this but it was sometime around late 90’s I think. They then went to a full 16 year old draft and changed the rules for which players you could sign. I think it is your first three picks plus one more player of any round? Something like that. I know if I have it wrong, someone will correct me.

In 1991 at least the draft went as high as 22 rounds, although it doesn't appear that most teams took advantage of that

L:\Special Events\Priority Selection\PS Results\1991_PS_TEAM.wpd (ontariohockeyleague.com)

Ottawa went to 25 rounds in 1995
L:\Special Events\Priority Selection\PS Results\1995_PS_TEAM.wpd (ontariohockeyleague.com)

In the 70s there were some longer drafts as well
1976 OHA Major Junior League Midget Draft (hockeydraftcentral.com)

 

[Truthking]

What do you think the impact would be if it went down to say 10 rounds? Would it change the level of play at all?

 

[Otto]

What do you think the impact would be if it went down to say 10 rounds? Would it change the level of play at all?

It might. Some teams take chances in the late rounds. London took Alex Formenton after the 10th round. Steve Mason and Patrick Maroon were both taken after the 10th round in 2004

Here's pick # 302 by Niagara in 2012 Blake Siebenaler - Elite Prospects
Peterborough - Round 12 Steven Lorentz - Elite Prospects
13th round pick by North Bay in 2014 Justin Brazeau - Elite Prospects
Last pick in 2013 Jalen Smereck - Elite Prospects

 

[Otto]

delete

 

[OMG67]

It might. Some teams take chances in the late rounds. London took Alex Formenton after the 10th round. Steve Mason and Patrick Maroon were both taken after the 10th round in 2004

Here's pick # 302 by Niagara in 2012 Blake Siebenaler - Elite Prospects
Peterborough - Round 12 Steven Lorentz - Elite Prospects

The question is more whether teams would change their strategy or not. Some use their late picks as flyers on NCAA bound players. Would they still take those flyers with earlier picks and sacrifice the guys that typically don't play in the league with 8th and 9th round picks? Dunno what that impact would actually be.

Also, there is the under-18 draft to also consider. If teams lessen their main draft and then more viable players become available in the under-18 draft, it may not impact anything at all.

We also need to consider the few players that are drafted to deep rosters and don't get a chance but may have gotten a chance in another organization..

The reality is it is very hard to predict exactly what would happen.

That said, if it is two or three players per year, does that have a league wide impact? And would those player syou referenced never get an opportunity to play in the OHL had they not been picked as 16 year olds? Possible but we do see walk on's make teams too. Hell, Claude Giroux slipped through the entire OHL Draft and signed in Gatineau as a walk on/invite.

 

[Otto]

The question is more whether teams would change their strategy or not. Some use their late picks as flyers on NCAA bound players. Would they still take those flyers with earlier picks and sacrifice the guys that typically don't play in the league with 8th and 9th round picks? Dunno what that impact would actually be.

Also, there is the under-18 draft to also consider. If teams lessen their main draft and then more viable players become available in the under-18 draft, it may not impact anything at all.

We also need to consider the few players that are drafted to deep rosters and don't get a chance but may have gotten a chance in another organization..

The reality is it is very hard to predict exactly what would happen.

That said, if it is two or three players per year, does that have a league wide impact? And would those player syou referenced never get an opportunity to play in the OHL had they not been picked as 16 year olds? Possible but we do see walk on's make teams too. Hell, Claude Giroux slipped through the entire OHL Draft and signed in Gatineau as a walk on/invite.

I only posted a few examples. I'm not going to go all "Miracle on 34th Street" and post them all.

Bottom line, solid players are found in the later rounds. The league isn't going to change things just because some people don't want to see girls get drafted.

 

[OHLTG]

It might. Some teams take chances in the late rounds. London took Alex Formenton after the 10th round. Steve Mason and Patrick Maroon were both taken after the 10th round in 2004

Here's pick # 302 by Niagara in 2012 Blake Siebenaler - Elite Prospects
Peterborough - Round 12 Steven Lorentz - Elite Prospects
13th round pick by North Bay in 2014 Justin Brazeau - Elite Prospects
Last pick in 2013 Jalen Smereck - Elite Prospects

Windsor had Posa (future captain), Engelage (MC title in 2009), and a host of very solid depth guys through the years.

 

[Truthking]

I only posted a few examples. I'm not going to go all "Miracle on 34th Street" and post them all.

Bottom line, solid players are found in the later rounds. The league isn't going to change things just because some people don't want to see girls get drafted.

Yes because it’s happened so often it has become a real issue lol

 

[OMG67]

I only posted a few examples. I'm not going to go all "Miracle on 34th Street" and post them all.

Bottom line, solid players are found in the later rounds. The league isn't going to change things just because some people don't want to see girls get drafted.

Again, if you don't see this question as more than a girl being drafted, I may need to go all "Miracle on 34th Street" and supply a list of all the valid reasons to reduce the draft to 10 rounds.

Actually, it wouldn't take a miracle. All it would take is a quick scroll backwards a few posts.

If an 18 year old can play hockey, he'll find his way to the best league. It is even easier for that player if his rights aren't held by one team and he has 20 potential teams available. In fact, he would have almost 60 teams considering there is also the WHL and QMJHL available for free agents.

It's not an argument though. It's a discussion.

 

[Otto]

Yes because it’s happened so often it has become a real issue lol

Exactly... thank you