OHL in trouble

[MatthewsMoustache]

fans do not want to pay 21$ for shinny..non contact hockey....and a feeling that teams are mismatched.because of cheating or players/agents picking attractive teams...read GTA/S Ont area...large market ...it is like two tiers...

with the exception of Flint and London, those “tiers” change every year. you have teams that are going for playoff runs and teams that are rebuilding. without these “tiers” the league isn’t what it is today. most teams get their shot at something and to make it special, you might have to go through some growing pains.

go look at the bottom 3 teams in each conference. with the exception of Flint, they’ve all had rather successful teams in recent years.

Flints assets have just been so poorly managed since the day they got there. North Bay is down there but they aren’t consistently picking in the top 5. Peterborough and Sudbury are starting to get it together. the league is actually getting better in terms of competitive balance

 

[OMG67]

Ok. So you think 90% of the league should finish top 4 over a 5 year period? Wow. That is just unrealistic.

No idea here, nor do I care to look it up, but I doubt that happens in any league.

Cmon.

So if Ottawa makes top 4 this year, the OHL should put rules in place to prevent them from taking a run next year so we can "help"accomdate your 18 different teams in semis over 5 years lol.

You are missing the point.

All I said was there is a competitive imbalance based on unbalanced recruiting ability. Am I wrong?

The argument against was 9 different finalists over a five year period. That is cherry picking statistics. It doesn’t prove there isn’t a competitive imabalance at all.

I also said there are only so many talented people available for the OHL and as a developmental league, the strongest coaches and GM’s continue their professional progression to higher leagues and positions. So it is not just as easy as saying, “Hire the right people.” Again, the best people will typically choose the more strategic organizations that will help them progress just like players do when they have a choice.

This is a perceived challenge in the OHL and a reason why teams choose to bend the rules as much as possible.

The reality is there are organizations in turmoil and not a lot they can do to fix it, at least in the relative short term. To simply ignore that and suggest that because there were nine different finalists in 5 years so the league is just fine in this regard is irresponsible.

 

[aresknights]

You are missing the point.

All I said was there is a competitive imbalance based on unbalanced recruiting ability. Am I wrong?

The argument against was 9 different finalists over a five year period. That is cherry picking statistics. It doesn’t prove there isn’t a competitive imabalance at all.

I also said there are only so many talented people available for the OHL and as a developmental league, the strongest coaches and GM’s continue their professional progression to higher leagues and positions. So it is not just as easy as saying, “Hire the right people.” Again, the best people will typically choose the more strategic organizations that will help them progress just like players do when they have a choice.

This is a perceived challenge in the OHL and a reason why teams choose to bend the rules as much as possible.

The reality is there are organizations in turmoil and not a lot they can do to fix it, at least in the relative short term. To simply ignore that and suggest that because there were nine different finalists in 5 years so the league is just fine in this regard is irresponsible.

I only responded to the post I quoted.


But I do think 45% of the leagues teams making a finals appearance, on the surface does suggest a competitive balance.
5 years isn't a small sample size.

"Unbalanced recruiting ability" Of course that's the case. As it is in any league, industry........... In any competitive market looking to acquire talent those who recruit will look for advantages.

Just like Ott has made an increased commitment to the auxillary off ice support for its players and has done so in all areas. And it has paid off for them. Greatly

 

[BadgerBruce]

You are missing the point.

All I said was there is a competitive imbalance based on unbalanced recruiting ability. Am I wrong?

The argument against was 9 different finalists over a five year period. That is cherry picking statistics. It doesn’t prove there isn’t a competitive imabalance at all.

I also said there are only so many talented people available for the OHL and as a developmental league, the strongest coaches and GM’s continue their professional progression to higher leagues and positions. So it is not just as easy as saying, “Hire the right people.” Again, the best people will typically choose the more strategic organizations that will help them progress just like players do when they have a choice.

This is a perceived challenge in the OHL and a reason why teams choose to bend the rules as much as possible.

The reality is there are organizations in turmoil and not a lot they can do to fix it, at least in the relative short term. To simply ignore that and suggest that because there were nine different finalists in 5 years so the league is just fine in this regard is irresponsible.

“Competitive imbalances based on unbalanced recruiting ability” in Canadian junior hockey dates back to the C-card and sponsorship era. It’s not new. You could be representing the Boston Bruins in 1962 and sitting at the Orr family kitchen table, offering to stucco the house, purchase the family a late model car and schedule all of your home games at Maple Leaf Gardens instead of Oshawa just to get those parents to sign so you’ve got that 14 year old game changer locked up. Or maybe you worked for the Habs, which at one time controlled the playing rights to an astounding 10,000 Canadian teenagers.

Not a lot new under the sun when it comes to variations in recruiting ability.

Having said this, I’m not for one second suggesting that the league is better when imbalances exist. You folks can have at it over that one. All I’m saying is the situation is hardly new. I might also suggest that a potential player is probably less interested in how a given team historically performs in the league standings than how well a given team historically develops players for NHL careers. The first is important to fan bases, the second to the athletes.

 

[Otto]

So is the solution to abolish scouting for all teams and just have an OHL managed scouting team?

 

[moose311]

So is the solution to abolish scouting for all teams and just have an OHL managed scouting team?

The league also better manage the development process of every player in the league then. This is another place where London shines.

 

[Otto]

Might as well remove all ownership and have the league run the teams

 

[three dog night]

I would like a more balanced schedule maybe a change in the playoffs to the top sixteen teams.

 

[Otto]

I would like a more balanced schedule maybe a change in the playoffs to the top sixteen teams.

And you think somehow this is going to make teams more profitable? if anything it'll make it worse. You've just added additional travel expenses onto the teams.... bravo...

 

[OMG67]

I only responded to the post I quoted.


But I do think 45% of the leagues teams making a finals appearance, on the surface does suggest a competitive balance.
5 years isn't a small sample size.

"Unbalanced recruiting ability" Of course that's the case. As it is in any league, industry........... In any competitive market looking to acquire talent those who recruit will look for advantages.

Just like Ott has made an increased commitment to the auxillary off ice support for its players and has done so in all areas. And it has paid off for them. Greatly

In addition, I support the unbalanced recruiting etc. My motto has always been, “Don’t get bitter, get better!”

The problem is it also has the negative side. Players not reporting or jockeying has a negative connotation to it. It can perpetually keep teams down.

What is happening in Flint is a great example right now. It is a shame any player worth a grain of salt won’t go. It is a team on its own island right now.

 

[OMG67]

So is the solution to abolish scouting for all teams and just have an OHL managed scouting team?

There is no solution. I think the league does a great job compensating the defected players. It creates as close to a perfect balance possible. The only issue is when you have a team no one wants to play for, the picks become less meaningful.

 

[aresknights]

In addition, I support the unbalanced recruiting etc. My motto has always been, “Don’t get bitter, get better!”

The problem is it also has the negative side. Players not reporting or jockeying has a negative connotation to it. It can perpetually keep teams down.

What is happening in Flint is a great example right now. It is a shame any player worth a grain of salt won’t go. It is a team on its own island right now.

Flint has had a bunch of self inflicted issues over the last 3/4 years. Not just recruiting and they have seemingly started to turn the corner in that one area.

 

[sbpointer]

Might as well remove all ownership and have the league run the teams

If they did that it might eliminate the STH waiting list in London pretty quick. That's likely the only problem that will solve and the people who finally get to the top of the list won't want tickets anymorelol

 

[cupcrazyman]

Which team has moved since 2017?

Not yet. This is from last year.

Wednesdays FTB: Are the OHL Mississauga Steelheads moving?

 

[Otto]

This

Not yet. This is from last year.

Wednesdays FTB: Are the OHL Mississauga Steelheads moving?

This is also from last year...

Steelheads Announce New Lease Agreement – Mississauga Steelheads

 

[three dog night]

This

This is also from last year...

Steelheads Announce New Lease Agreement – Mississauga Steelheads

I wonder if there an opt clause if crowds do not perk up

 

[Otto]

I wonder if there an opt clause if crowds do not perk up

do the Ice Dogs have an opt out clause because they are cheaters?

 

[three dog night]

do the Ice Dogs have an opt out clause because they are cheaters?

Have to see how the appeal goes but no team that had sanctions against them have been kicked out.

 

[Tarantula]

do the Ice Dogs have an opt out clause because they are cheaters?

For someone who whines about trolls and calls for Mommy, er the Mods on the London thread.........................

 

[Otto]

For someone who whines about trolls and calls for Mommy, er the Mods on the London thread.........................

Take the post in context...

 

[Tarantula]

Fair enough though it can be tough to tell in print. Cheers

 

[OMG67]

Flint has had a bunch of self inflicted issues over the last 3/4 years. Not just recruiting and they have seemingly started to turn the corner in that one area.

Again, the purpose of my opinion was much broader than this.

3DN was taking a lot of heat, deservedly so; however, it doesn't mean he isn't on to something that could potentially be problematic in years to come.

He did highlight a lot of issues, albeit in a slanted manner related to the sanctions on the Ice Dogs for recruiting violations which undermined what he was really getting at.

The CHL in general, is going through a transitioning period. Generally speaking, it is tracking through that very well so far. It doesn't mean they will be able to reach the other side of that tunnel unscathed. There are some issues that are problematic. I briefly touched upon them in an effort to take some heat off 3DN because the underlying points he was making do provide for a basis of discussion without need of bashing the OP (3DN).

We've had all of these discussion before and like any good political discussion, and that is what this is, there will be two diametrically opposed sides that become entrenched in their own ideals.

PErsonally, I don't give a rats arse about recruiting issues. I don't think we should be trying to grease up a square peg to force it into a round hole. I like what the league has done to help compensate teams for defected players. I think it is a great compromise. It allows teams to pick best available no matter the players wishes and then trade him if it doesn't work out. A great example of this is Saginaw with Perfetti. Without that rule in place, Perfetti wouldn't be in Saginaw right now. That safety net allowed Saginaw to draft him, enter negotiations, and sign him to a SPC.

As you mentioned, Flint is starting to turn the corner a little but their inability to trade Dellandrea shows there are still lingering issues with respect to high valued players willing to report (waive NTC's). Hell, in the Rookie of the Year predictions thread, someone mentioned Byfeld should get it for reporting to Sudbury! That should say enough right there.

We do have other issues related to compensation, schooling, increasing competition from the NCAA programs etc. All of these are problematic to the point the CHL needs to consider all of this when making decisions. In the deeper past, they just did what they wanted and called it a day. They did what was best for the league and its owners. It isn't like that anymore. Political and social aspects related to player development, training, family issues, other unrelated hockey needs etc. The power is shifting towards the player more and more.

None of these things make it easier for the member teams.

 

[ohloutsider]

Thats funny because 9036 a game do in London which is 5 times more then some teams do so maybe some teams management could do better at running their teams!!!

Kind of an unfair number - most teams don't have an arena that holds that many fans so can't expect other teams to match that number.

 

[sbpointer]

Kind of an unfair number - most teams don't have an arena that holds that many fans so can't expect other teams to match that number.

Thats not an excuse until they are at their max...

 

[aresknights]

Again, the purpose of my opinion was much broader than this.

3DN was taking a lot of heat, deservedly so; however, it doesn't mean he isn't on to something that could potentially be problematic in years to come.

He did highlight a lot of issues, albeit in a slanted manner related to the sanctions on the Ice Dogs for recruiting violations which undermined what he was really getting at.

The CHL in general, is going through a transitioning period. Generally speaking, it is tracking through that very well so far. It doesn't mean they will be able to reach the other side of that tunnel unscathed. There are some issues that are problematic. I briefly touched upon them in an effort to take some heat off 3DN because the underlying points he was making do provide for a basis of discussion without need of bashing the OP (3DN).

We've had all of these discussion before and like any good political discussion, and that is what this is, there will be two diametrically opposed sides that become entrenched in their own ideals.

PErsonally, I don't give a rats arse about recruiting issues. I don't think we should be trying to grease up a square peg to force it into a round hole. I like what the league has done to help compensate teams for defected players. I think it is a great compromise. It allows teams to pick best available no matter the players wishes and then trade him if it doesn't work out. A great example of this is Saginaw with Perfetti. Without that rule in place, Perfetti wouldn't be in Saginaw right now. That safety net allowed Saginaw to draft him, enter negotiations, and sign him to a SPC.

As you mentioned, Flint is starting to turn the corner a little but their inability to trade Dellandrea shows there are still lingering issues with respect to high valued players willing to report (waive NTC's). Hell, in the Rookie of the Year predictions thread, someone mentioned Byfeld should get it for reporting to Sudbury! That should say enough right there.

We do have other issues related to compensation, schooling, increasing competition from the NCAA programs etc. All of these are problematic to the point the CHL needs to consider all of this when making decisions. In the deeper past, they just did what they wanted and called it a day. They did what was best for the league and its owners. It isn't like that anymore. Political and social aspects related to player development, training, family issues, other unrelated hockey needs etc. The power is shifting towards the player more and more.

None of these things make it easier for the member teams.

As usual u make some good points.

Re Dellandrea. Im not sure Flint wanted to move Dellandrea. I have no proof but heard they thought it better for the club moving forward and fan base that he stayed as the face of the current org.
Again maybe true, maybe not, but I heard it at least 2 weeks prior to deadline at least. And it really makes alot of sense esp since there is a good shot he returns to lead a young group with potential next year. They need positives and he gives more value playing there than what he would have returned. JMO based on Flints needs.
Morgan waived a NTC to go there, Rowe Id guess had one as well. Others will follow suit if the problems they created they last few years dont re appear.

Some fans ( not directing this at you ) think every big name on every non contender should get moved every year. Its tough for teams to do that.