Rumor: Offseason Rumors Thread #1 | Trade Milan, Milan So Far Away?

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Aceboogie

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Would it?

Sekera - Larsson probably wouldn't produce at a much lower rate than Klefbom - Larsson in all honesty.

Nurse - Ristolainen on the other hand would outproduce leaps and bounds over Nurse - Larsson.

One for one, I'd have to make that trade. It'd give us some balance back there for the first time since '08.

Leaps and bounds? No. Risto and 5x5 is not that good offensively. His points/60 is marginally better than Larssons. For playing a ton of minutes and a lot with eichel and co, he had only 13 5x5 points. Larsson had 10 in less minutes

At even strength, Risto offers nothing better than Klefbom. Not offense (by the stats) and not defensively. Risto only redeeming factor in the comparison is that hes right handed

Where Risto does offer more value is on the PP. However I'd question how good he'd be on how PP given how bad it is. Klefbom looked good on the PP in 16/17, then not good last year when none did (including draisaitl). Is risto a true PP QB? Or beneficiary of a good PP that drives a majority of his points? I cant answer that, but I'd be extremely hesitant in trading for a player who's value almost entirely derived from the PP
 

Aceboogie

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Here is the comparison between RR and the 3 young Oilers D over the last 2 seasons. He is tied for 2nd with Nurse for 5x5 points (in 600 more minutes). His points/60 is a lot closer to Larsson than it is to Klefbom. Primary points wise (which I value a lot), Klefbom blows him out of the water and Nurse is noticeably above. Again, he falls into Larsson category.

From a possession standpoint, his number are incredibly worse. But have to take into account how bad Buffalo is. However, even from a relative POV, his possession compared to his teammates is still noticeably worse than the 3 Oilers. Quality of competition wise, its likely harder than Klefbom and Larsson (forsure Nurse), but not by much

So 5x5 wise I would have no issue calling him the worst of the bunch. PP wise though hes first. But have to weigh how much you value being good on the PP and how much you think it can transfer over, or how much of it is team influenced (I honestly don't know). Id just be hesistant to acquire someone who produces Larsson level of offense 5x5 with much worse defensive ability and who lives on the PP. The best comparison is Cody Franson

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Little Fury

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My mistake, does Chris Wideman fit that bill in your estimation?

Well, he's got 9 PP points in his career so not really. Even Franson had 4 pp points in just 23 games this season. i'm not sure what that player looks like TBH. I had some ideas, but all were LH shots.

Honestly, instead of focusing on finding a RH shot for the PP, they should look at changing the PP set up.
 

Aceboogie

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Well, he's got 9 PP points in his career so not really. Even Franson had 4 pp points in just 23 games this season. i'm not sure what that player looks like TBH. I had some ideas, but all were LH shots.

Honestly, instead of focusing on finding a RH shot for the PP, they should look at changing the PP set up.


I dont think the members of the PP are the issue, its the coach. Plus, the Oilers PP was dead last in shooting % in 17/18- a year after being in the top 10 for shooting %. A drop of nearly 1/3. Thats with the same PP (coach and players). My prediction is that next year the PP will return to being top 15 in the league with potential for top 7. I dont think we need anything drastic to make that happen either
 

nabob

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Here is the comparison between RR and the 3 young Oilers D over the last 2 seasons. He is tied for 2nd with Nurse for 5x5 points (in 600 more minutes). His points/60 is a lot closer to Larsson than it is to Klefbom. Primary points wise (which I value a lot), Klefbom blows him out of the water and Nurse is noticeably above. Again, he falls into Larsson category.

From a possession standpoint, his number are incredibly worse. But have to take into account how bad Buffalo is. However, even from a relative POV, his possession compared to his teammates is still noticeably worse than the 3 Oilers. Quality of competition wise, its likely harder than Klefbom and Larsson (forsure Nurse), but not by much

So 5x5 wise I would have no issue calling him the worst of the bunch. PP wise though hes first. But have to weigh how much you value being good on the PP and how much you think it can transfer over, or how much of it is team influenced (I honestly don't know). Id just be hesistant to acquire someone who produces Larsson level of offense 5x5 with much worse defensive ability and who lives on the PP. The best comparison is Cody Franson

View attachment 121477

would be interesting to see their zone exit stats and ratios for stopping a zone entry. Something Nurse is excellent at, and Larsson and Klefbom when healthy the year before we're also really good at.
 

Mcnotloilersfan

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Jul 11, 2010
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I sincerely don't understand why most seem sure that we aren't going to make the playoffs next year. I still believe this team is more like the season before than the season after. This was a terrible season on so many levels and we still had 8 teams worse than us in the NHL.

Our failing special teams coaching is gone. Our goaltending battle is much stronger now than it was on October 1st. Overall depth is quickly improving too as Chiarelli's picks are getting closer and closer to playing. Yama and Bear are close to making an impact. We might see Benson and Jones on a couple call-up games this year too depending on how they do in the AHL.

Honestly Chiarelli just needs to bring in some depth. One of his best moves was his training camp invites last season like Versteeg and Russel. Get some quality vets with something to prove on cheap one year deals. Keep drafting well this year and developing what we have!
 

Aceboogie

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would be interesting to see their zone exit stats and ratios for stopping a zone entry. Something Nurse is excellent at, and Larsson and Klefbom when healthy the year before we're also really good at.

Heres what I could find. Not much suprising here. RR leans more bad than good, Larsson the best of the bunch and Nurse solid. All of Buffalos is near the bad terriority, but RR doing nothing to set himself apart

upload_2018-5-17_15-38-22.png
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Mr Sakich

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you have to look at the context of RR use. Last year, his most common partner by far was Scandela. They always faced the other teams top line and defencemen despite having very poor goaltending and forwards on the ice with them. Scandela is OK but is very very close to being the same player as Russel

2 years ago, Scandela was 5th in TOI / game for Minnesota dmen. That is his role on a decnet team - 3rd pairing. Despite coming from a good team and being a ufa in a very lucrative market, he got the same 4,000,000 contract as Russel. Imagine how poorly RR numbers would look if the Sabers signed Russel instead and played him on the top paring with RR.
 
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Took a pill in Sbisa

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Well, he's got 9 PP points in his career so not really. Even Franson had 4 pp points in just 23 games this season. i'm not sure what that player looks like TBH. I had some ideas, but all were LH shots.

Honestly, instead of focusing on finding a RH shot for the PP, they should look at changing the PP set up.

I thought it was interesting when Rishaug reported that Canadas PP looked and was horrendous, and McDavid had Parayko'a big shot on his unit.
Bill Peters isn't a very good coach though so I'm sure that doesn't help.
 

belair

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you have to look at the context of RR use. Last year, his most common partner by far was Scandela. They always faced the other teams top line and defencemen despite having very poor goaltending and forwards on the ice with them. Scandela is OK but is very very close to being the same player as Russel

2 years ago, Scandela was 5th in TOI / game for Minnesota dmen. That is his role on a decnet team - 3rd pairing. Despite coming from a good team and being a ufa in a very lucrative market, he got the same 4,000,000 contract as Russel. Imagine how poorly RR numbers would look if the Sabers signed Russel instead and played him on the top paring with RR.

Precisely. We're talking about a player who is among the NHL's league leaders in ice-time on the league's worst offensive team. They're putting this guy out against everyone's big guys. The Oilers have Adam Larsson for that.
 

Little Fury

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Precisely. We're talking about a player who is among the NHL's league leaders in ice-time on the league's worst offensive team. They're putting this guy out against everyone's big guys. The Oilers have Adam Larsson for that.

Risto would be a solid add for the Oilers but if you are giving up Klef you are making the team worse overall. That's all there is to it.
 
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Fourier

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you have to look at the context of RR use. Last year, his most common partner by far was Scandela. They always faced the other teams top line and defencemen despite having very poor goaltending and forwards on the ice with them. Scandela is OK but is very very close to being the same player as Russel

2 years ago, Scandela was 5th in TOI / game for Minnesota dmen. That is his role on a decnet team - 3rd pairing. Despite coming from a good team and being a ufa in a very lucrative market, he got the same 4,000,000 contract as Russel. Imagine how poorly RR numbers would look if the Sabers signed Russel instead and played him on the top paring with RR.

Is it true that he often had very poor defensive forwards with him. He played 40+% of the time with O'Reilly who is definitely not poor defensively. Scandal was 5th in TOI on Minnesota but that was mainly because they had terrific depth. Their top four was Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin and Dumba.
 
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Fourier

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you have to look at the context of RR use. Last year, his most common partner by far was Scandela. They always faced the other teams top line and defencemen despite having very poor goaltending and forwards on the ice with them. Scandela is OK but is very very close to being the same player as Russel

2 years ago, Scandela was 5th in TOI / game for Minnesota dmen. That is his role on a decnet team - 3rd pairing. Despite coming from a good team and being a ufa in a very lucrative market, he got the same 4,000,000 contract as Russel. Imagine how poorly RR numbers would look if the Sabers signed Russel instead and played him on the top paring with RR.

Is it true that he often had very poor defensive forwards with him. He played 40+% of the time with O'Reilly who is definitely not poor defensively. Scandal was 5th in TOI on Minnesota but that was mainly because they had terrific depth. Their top four was Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin and Dumba.
 

belair

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Risto would be a solid add for the Oilers but if you are giving up Klef you are making the team worse overall. That's all there is to it.
I don't agree with that. The overall offensive production you'd get out of Rasmus Ristolainen would exceed what you're getting out of Oscar Klefbom. And considering the lack of viable options at the RD position, a one-for-one swap would be extremely beneficial to us considering our current depth on the left side. Worst case is a push and you're still getting the younger, more physical defenseman.
 

Little Fury

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And Buffalo is not trading Risto fro Klefbom alone. The Oilers would be adding something significant to get them to move.

Madness.

I don't agree with that. The overall offensive production you'd get out of Rasmus Ristolainen would exceed what you're getting out of Oscar Klefbom. And considering the lack of viable options at the RD position, a one-for-one swap would be extremely beneficial to us considering our current depth on the left side. Worst case is a push and you're still getting the younger, more physical defenseman.

I'd say the offensive production is more or less a wash, but even if Klef's production is slightly lower, he's much better at 5 on 5 than Risto at both ends of the rink. What's more, Moving Klef means you end up playing nurse or Sekera in the top LHD slot, a position neither are particularly well suited for. So no, I don't see how trading an asset like Klefbom for a second pairing (at best) D man who needs heavy sheltering to succeed is a win for the Oilers unless they are also adding a real top pairing LHD somewhere.
 

Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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you have to look at the context of RR use. Last year, his most common partner by far was Scandela. They always faced the other teams top line and defencemen despite having very poor goaltending and forwards on the ice with them. Scandela is OK but is very very close to being the same player as Russel

2 years ago, Scandela was 5th in TOI / game for Minnesota dmen. That is his role on a decnet team - 3rd pairing. Despite coming from a good team and being a ufa in a very lucrative market, he got the same 4,000,000 contract as Russel. Imagine how poorly RR numbers would look if the Sabers signed Russel instead and played him on the top paring with RR.

There is a lot to unpack in here

1. Yes RR plays tough minutes on a bad team. But you cant absolve someone of poor numbers simply due to that. Larsson and Klefbom also play tough minutes (not as tough, but against top pairings). RRs possession numbers are really, really poor- amongst the worst in the NHL over the year. If you take toughness of competition into context, his numbers are still bad, they don't magically become above average

As for the forwards comments, he played a lot with RoR, who is no slouch, as well as Eichel. If people want to attribute his poor possession numbers to a bad team, then they should also do the same for the PP, which was run mainly thru Eichel and RoR and a key reason he got so many PP points

2. Scandella was underrated on Minny 5th on TOI due to depth Minny had. I would say hes in between a Sekera and a Russell. Scandella and Russell have similar stats in a number of areas despite Scandella playing those tougher minutes. The most telling thing about RR is that Scandellas defensive possession stats increase noticeably away from RR (offensively he does a bit worse though). So you cant really explain this away by saying "tougher comp".

Last season people justified RRs poor numbers because of Gorges + tough minutes + bad team and saying RRs number would improve with Housley + better partner. Well he got the better partner + new coach and his numbers look the same.
 

Aceboogie

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I don't agree with that. The overall offensive production you'd get out of Rasmus Ristolainen would exceed what you're getting out of Oscar Klefbom. And considering the lack of viable options at the RD position, a one-for-one swap would be extremely beneficial to us considering our current depth on the left side. Worst case is a push and you're still getting the younger, more physical defenseman.

Again, this is not an guarantee. This would assume RRs PP production who transfer completely from Buffalo to here. The defensive play would be a decrease. If you assume RRs PP ability does transfer smoothly to here and he continues to have the same PP production, you are looking at a net wash out between the two. So really the only reason for the trade is to switch handeness. And that's best case. So 1 for 1 it wouldn't be the worst trade in the world, but not the smartest either. When you are targeting RR, you are doing a ton of hoping, wishing and projecting
 

Aceboogie

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Precisely. We're talking about a player who is among the NHL's league leaders in ice-time on the league's worst offensive team. They're putting this guy out against everyone's big guys. The Oilers have Adam Larsson for that.

And hes getting eaten alive in the process. RR is best positioned as a middle pairing D. Klefbom atleast had a season where he excelled on the top pairing. It was on a better team yes, but still had a year where he did that. RR has yet to have that. Its just a lot of "well if he had a great partner and team". Id say Scandella is roughly on par with Larsson, maybe a bit less, but in same ball park. Look at what Klefbom was able to do with Larsson last year. Its way, way above anything RR did this year with Scandella
 

belair

Jay Woodcroft Unemployment Stance
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Madness.



I'd say the offensive production is more or less a wash, but even if Klef's production is slightly lower, he's much better at 5 on 5 than Risto at both ends of the rink. What's more, Moving Klef means you end up playing nurse or Sekera in the top LHD slot, a position neither are particularly well suited for. So no, I don't see how trading an asset like Klefbom for a second pairing (at best) D man who needs heavy sheltering to succeed is a win for the Oilers unless they are also adding a real top pairing LHD somewhere.

Darnell Nurse played top pairing minutes this season with Adam Larsson. Adam Larsson was acquired to shut down opposition's top offensive lines. He would continue to do so with Andrej Sekera.

Rasmus Ristolainen doesn't require 'heavy sheltering'. He's got one of the heaviest workloads in the NHL as of this past season. 26 minutes a night on the NHL's worst offensive team. He simply wouldn't have to do that here. He'd be a primary offensive defenseman and he'd get paired with the aforementioned Nurse, who wouldn't be facing the other team's top matchups like he did this past year. I don't see how you think that'd be a wash. Klefbom's career high in points is 38 and he's done it once in a five year NHL career. Ristolainen has topped that each of the past three seasons and he's a year younger.

The fact is that the Oilers PP was one of its biggest crutches last season and Oscar Klefbom was a part of it for much of the season. Ristolainen is one of the league's elite PP QBs. He had 23 points on the PP this year, Klef had six.

A straight up swap of these two checks the boxes for us.
 
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rambo97

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I like Risto but man some of you are overating him.

He’s not a good transition passer or player. In fact I think he’s actually a poor passer. His passes seem to be off the mark a lot. Not something that would be good if we acquired him. He also makes some really bone headed bad plays defensively. He is very inconsistent. He is a weapon on the PP I’ll give you that.

But giving up Klef and #10 is ludicrous for him. I’d give up #10 for him and add a prospect. But no way I touch him if Klef is also included. I’d be hesitant to trade Klef straight up for him but can understand if some would. But that would be a lateral trade IMO
 
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