Speculation: Offseason Roster Building Thread 2 - Expansion Boogaloo

Status
Not open for further replies.

CandyCanes

Caniac turned Jerkiac
Jan 8, 2015
7,134
24,473
From the initial reports I've heard the 2018 draft is a draft where you want to be holding onto a first, considered a pretty strong draft I believe. I'd be hesitant to give it up compared to this years draft.


Now onto Francis. I absolutely love what he's done to this organization so far during his tenure as the GM. I am slightly concerned though that he's to hesitant pull the trigger on bigger deals, as a GM I feel like taking risks are necessary sometimes to get to that next level. Making moves like the Bicks + TT are great freaking moves, but are very calculated, and won't ever put us over the top. I understand this window for Ron Francis to make a big move has just opened up this off season, so I think he's got at least 1-2 seasons to figure out those major deals if needed so I'll hold my breath. Though I wish I could see them like now as I'm just excited where this team is headed and ready to see the success now.

I'm really intrigued to see what type of GM Ron is going to be like when we are in a position to add guys at the trade deadline.
 
Jun 21, 2016
7,216
29,654
Latvia
Speaking about GMRF - why would team like us overpay for someone like Duchene at this moment, when we finally are starting to have a good prospect pool. There was a chance that we could move our 1st round pick, but if the deal wasnt there, I am fine with no moves at all. We dont need to overpay right now, to lose Duchene after 2 years, and lose potential 2-3 good players. I trust that if there is something good on the table for us, GMRF will pull the trigger.

He has addressed two big issues already - a goalie and top6 D man. And it`s not July yet. Why we would not go Toronto`s way and build around our young players by drafting and developing what we have. Let`s add decent C by a trade or FA, let`s not overpay, and let`s give a chance to our young players to come up and play.
 

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,273
North Carolina
Visit site
The only trade that really bugs me is not being in the mix on Eberle. That was an addition I really feel like could have been relatively inexpensive and could have helped us. The salary considerations of $6 million for the next 2 years wasn't super burdensome and could have floated us for a while under some of our internal options were a little further into their development. Plus, I would imagine the Oilers would have liked to get some defense back in that deal instead of Strome. That feels like a missed opportunity.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,254
38,757
I agree. Just meant there's usually more upset people with this level of inactivity at this point. I'm perfectly willing to wait and see what happens. I like his plan overall, but I still feel there will come a time for a bold move and I hope he'll be ready when it does. That's my only doubt about him until he does.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,254
38,757
Also, Duchene for two years isn't nothing. Francis has a great plan, and I trust him overall. I think the franchise is in great shape compared to where it's been. But a big move, even for only two years, might signal to the Faulks and Skinners of the world that we're worth re-signing with in two years. Not to mention maybe Duchene himself in that particular scenario. Of course there are limits to what we should offer to get a deal done. I'm more than fine holding onto most of our roster players. But these two years are certainly important.
 
Jun 21, 2016
7,216
29,654
Latvia
I would be fine to have a move for Duchene if the price is right, but we all know that Sakic is asking way to much.

As for Eberle, yeah, that was a bit disappointing that we were not (at least it seems so) trying to go after him, because he wasnt very expensive at all.

But I do believe that there are still some moves what will happen from GMRF. At least 1 move for sure.
 

MinJaBen

Canes Sharks Boy
Sponsor
Dec 14, 2015
20,598
79,401
Durm
At this point, I'm most curious on how GMRF is planning to get to the salary floor.
 

geehaad

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2006
7,507
18,842
Just a friendly, non-judgmental reminder that Eberle's contract status is exactly the same as Duchene's.

I understand that the pricetag was likely less than Duchene's, but perhaps we didn't have the pieces that fit together as well as an underperforming former 1st-rounder like Strome did in that deal. Smurphy would fit that bill, but who knows how receptive the Oiler org was to that idea. It's easy to say that it was a cheap pricetag, but it's possibly true that EDM had been asking for more from CAR in their negotiations, entirely possible that Francis was just as surprised to find that EDM let Eberle go for that little in return. And maybe some in EDM value Strome more than we evaluate him to be. And maybe, just maybe, Francis and others in the org didn't really like Eberle that much.

It's just really myopic to say that Francis "should have been in on that deal" in my opinion, as if all things are equal to all involved.
 

dogbazinho

Registered User
May 24, 2006
9,248
13,773
As odd as it may seem I think I'd rather have Strome. I don't see the Canes as that close. I'd be targeted players than could help us in 3 years.

I don't blame Francis he was left with a real turd of a team. A rigid turd that he couldn't shape into something better. He's just adding small pieces to it at this point.
 
Last edited:

Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
8,273
North Carolina
Visit site
Just a friendly, non-judgmental reminder that Eberle's contract status is exactly the same as Duchene's.

I understand that the pricetag was likely less than Duchene's, but perhaps we didn't have the pieces that fit together as well as an underperforming former 1st-rounder like Strome did in that deal. Smurphy would fit that bill, but who knows how receptive the Oiler org was to that idea. It's easy to say that it was a cheap pricetag, but it's possibly true that EDM had been asking for more from CAR in their negotiations, entirely possible that Francis was just as surprised to find that EDM let Eberle go for that little in return. And maybe some in EDM value Strome more than we evaluate him to be. And maybe, just maybe, Francis and others in the org didn't really like Eberle that much.

It's just really myopic to say that Francis "should have been in on that deal" in my opinion, as if all things are equal to all involved.

The difference is what you mentioned. It wouldn't have been tragic to see him walk in two years, even two good years, if the price wasn't as much of a consideration as it was with guys like Stepan and Duchene. The need being so immediate that Eberle would have provided a huge leg up is a factor that seems to be self-evident on its face. The price tag probably wasn't as friendly, in terms of actual dollars, as we would be hoping for in a trade like that but there's always the chance that Eberle could have found a home here. Unlike some of the other guys who we're going to view as pure rentals, like a James Neal for example. I certainly don't believe Murphy could have gotten that deal done, but I would have felt comfortable parting with a strong package of a high pick and prospect for Eberle. Perhaps even a combo package involving Fleury wouldn't have been totally unreasonable.

And the bulk of what we all do here is speculate. For me to say "we should have been in on" a deal is obviously not objective fact. I just feel like it would have been a move that would have been cost effective and helped us more than it hurt us, which is obviously what we're trying to achieve. But as a lot of us predicted, the musical chairs music stopped and we were forced to make all our selections in the draft while waiting out options that never materialized. Now we're in a very awkward spot with either having to fill the remainder of our holes via UFAs or wading through the remainder of the heap looking for something a little less obvious. Francis sounded a little forlorn about his trade efforts not turning up anything he felt comfortable with. I think if the option was facing what we face now or going after Eberle, we would have been wise to make that call on Eberle.
 

geehaad

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 24, 2006
7,507
18,842
Now we're in a very awkward spot with either having to fill the remainder of our holes via UFAs or wading through the remainder of the heap looking for something a little less obvious.

No doubt a lack of immediately-available draft picks reduces the number of trade chips, but I'm not as pessimistic about what's out there yet to be had.

Here's one example: We're open to adding JVR, but with only one year remaining on his deal. Free agency gets underway, push comes to shove on the Leafs' side of things due to a UFA who would like to sign with TOR. They allow Francis to negotiate with JVR, they work out an extension, and Francis pulls the trigger.

Obviously I'm not saying that will happen, but it's an avenue that is not currently available to Francis, and doesn't fit into the bleak reality that you've laid out for remaining options. It's true that there won't be a *ton* of these types of potential deals, but probably just as many of them as there were of available deals at the entry draft.
 

dogbazinho

Registered User
May 24, 2006
9,248
13,773
We seem to be fighting the ocean. What we seem to do is have address a hole usually by throwing a 2nd at it. At the deadline (or offseason) dump a player comparable player for a 2nd, all deals seemingly individually awesome (and necessary) and maybe returns better than expected but we never really seem to gain much traction. We seem to have more picks than most teams but isn't that because we are kicking the "pick can" down the street by cycling our players in this fashion?

Through this patient approach we DO have prospects now so I guess each year we get closer to their maturity and that is a marked improvement from Rutherford where those resources would have been spent at the deadline to still come up short. Maybe we soon reach a point where we should have prospects that every year compete for spots?

It would be nice to see what Francis could do with the budget Rutherford has had and I really think if properly used, even if we miss the Playoffs, it could have sped up our "rebuild."

I can only speak for myself but I just look for something to break us out of this cycle. The quickest way I've seen is to get lucky in a trade for a younger player, like a Forsberg that for whatever reason clicks with us. It's probably the wrong approach but why I'm willing to trade Faulk to entertain that idea. Hanifin is still young and has the potential to be that player so I don't like the idea of trading him for a Duchene or Galy type.
 
Last edited:

Ole Gil

Registered User
May 9, 2009
5,693
8,842
I think rather than specifics, it's the fact Ron Francis' job is to make a playoff team. And thus far, he hasn't really done much. Just made a lot of picks, and added some mid-tier guys.

As stands, the team will probably not make the playoffs again. And again, as it stands, there's no reason to really expect it to happen in the near future. The team is playing at a talent deficit, and picking in the 10-15 range every year can't be expected to solve it.

They've been crazy lucky already. Rask/Faulk/Aho/Pesce/Slavin all being gotten outside the first is pretty amazing. And that only moved them from bad non-playoff team to mediocre non-playoff team.

The point being, the amount of luck, I think, it takes to rebuild a franchise relying on mid 1sts and lots of 2nds and 3rds is absurdly high.

And every year of RF's tenure so far, has been exactly the same. A team needing a big injection of talent settling for making their picks, an okay dman, and another teams backup goalie.

Does anyone see this strategy resulting in a really good team without some huge surprise jump in development?
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,254
38,757
That'll get us to the cap floor! Re-sign a mediocre at best player probably to more than he's worth. Freaking awesome.
 

A Star is Burns

Formerly Azor Aho
Sponsor
Dec 6, 2011
12,254
38,757
Guess I spoke too soon. A significant raise to Ryan will get everyone good and upset about things.
 

Novacane

Registered User
Jan 25, 2012
24,981
9,010
Raleigh, NC
holy god on what planet

"Significant increase"

He had 30 points last year and is a good face off man. It's about the doing rate for a 3C. I'm not saying it's "good", but if other plans fell through...

As Francis has said he's not going to sign long term big money deals to avoid situations with our upcoming RFAs. He may have to pay more today to hit the floor on one year contracts
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->