Speculation: Offseason Free Agency thread

[Archijerej]

Who knows by how much. It might be a little or it might be a lot. Depends on a lot. But odds are the Habs are probably not a playoff team. And trading a 1st now for a guy like Dvorak is not something a team in that situation should do.

I don't think Vatanen or Shattenkirk would make a major difference. Maybe Shattenkirk. But now you're getting to the point that you're basically betting on a relatively old team with a bunch of guys with money term and some good young guys that you might not even be able to pay when their contracts are up. Betting that team is going to do something special, again, because... grit and depth.

And a mid 1st is not nothing. Caufield was a 16th OA pick in 2019. Suzuki was a 13th OA pick in 2017.

We're at the point (whether by the point in time of the retool or just how much money is tied up in guys earning 27+ money) where you have to show faith in your young guys. Give them a role and and consistency and work through the kinks. You can't just yank them around forever. Either your a team that can draft or develop or not. And if not, something has to change.

I'm not against going into the season with a stop-gap like Tierney, or someone like that, and let the chips fall where they may. That's fine.

I just don't think we should overvalue picks and prospects. Even if we play patiently, once we're ready to contend, we're going to need a guy like Dvorak, just like Tampa needed Gourde, Boston needed Coyle and the Islanders needed Pageau. If there's an opportunity to acquire him now, we should seriously consider it.

I'm ok with either scenario, though, as long as the accumulation of prospects and picks isn't an end of itself.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm not against going into the season with a stop-gap like Tierney, or someone like that, and let the chips fall where they may. That's fine.

I just don't think we should overvalue picks and prospects. Even if we play patiently, once we're ready to contend, we're going to need a guy like Dvorak, just like Tampa needed Gourde, Boston needed Coyle and the Islanders needed Pageau. If there's an opportunity to acquire him now, we should seriously consider it.

I'm ok with either scenario, though, as long as the accumulation of prospects and picks is an end of itself.

Then acquire them when you're ready to contend, like Tampa, Boston, NYI or most of the teams that make moves like that. When you're likely giving up late 1sts.

You're not going to get Dvorak cheaply, so don't make a deal now. See how the young guys look and where you might finish and make a move in-season.

While most of these guys will definitely be re-signed, here are some the Free Agent centers next offseason:

UFA

-Malkin
-Bergeron
-Barkov
-Couturier
-Hertl
-Domi
-Kadri
-Trochek
-R. Strome
-Stastny
-Paul

Plus a few RFA centers that would be available. Habs don't need to blow their load for Dvorak.

 

[Vachon23]

Neither is Kotkaniemi or Galchenyuk trending to become so. Neither is even a guy like Kaapo Kaakoo trending to become one. Or Nico Hishier for that matter.
A top-5 pick is not a guarantee of success. And the 1st round pick in a trade for Dvorak would quite probably be lottery-protected.

The chances that we draft a better player then Dvorak are slim so it’s a go for me

 

[Vachon23]

Then acquire them when you're ready to contend, like Tampa, Boston, NYI or most of the teams that make moves like that. When you're likely giving up late 1sts.

You're not going to get Dvorak cheaply, so don't make a deal now. See how the young guys look and where you might finish and make a move in-season.

While most of these guys will definitely be re-signed, here are some the Free Agent centers next offseason:

UFA

-Malkin
-Bergeron
-Barkov
-Couturier
-Hertl
-Domi
-Kadri
-Trochek
-R. Strome
-Stastny
-Paul

Plus a few RFA centers that would be available. Habs don't need to blow their load for Dvorak.

How many of them will really hit the market ? You can forget the 1st 5 names and the other one are not really good ..

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Then acquire them when you're ready to contend, like Tampa, Boston, NYI or most of the teams that make moves like that. When you're likely giving up late 1sts.

You're not going to get Dvorak cheaply, so don't make a deal now. See how the young guys look and where you might finish and make a move in-season.

While most of these guys will definitely be re-signed, here are some the Free Agent centers next offseason:

UFA

-Malkin
-Bergeron
-Barkov
-Couturier
-Hertl
-Domi
-Kadri
-Trochek
-R. Strome
-Stastny
-Paul

Plus a few RFA centers that would be available. Habs don't need to blow their load for Dvorak.

Id get Kadri he grew up a Habs fan and has some jam to his game and can fill in on the 2nd line center spot.

 

[Redux91]

agreed, this PP is going to suck again

No, the PP is fixed with Caufield and Hoffman, easily
Top RD at the moment for this team is for actual defense and transition

 

[Captain Mountain]

How many of them will really hit the market ? You can forget the 1st 5 names and the other one are not really good ..

We'll see who's available. And Kadri and Trochek are better than Dvorak. Paul is underrated. And while he's worse defensively, Montreal really missed Domi's passing offensively.

 

[salbutera]

agreed, this PP is going to suck again

With Caufield & Hoffman as snipers for a full season there should be a significant improvement on the PP, even though it still lacks a QB

 

[sampollock]

No, the PP is fixed with Caufield and Hoffman, easily
Top RD at the moment for this team is for actual defense and transition

THAT is the thing, no QB on the back to run it

 

[Vachon23]

We'll see who's available. And Kadri and Trochek are better than Dvorak. Paul is underrated. And while he's worse defensively, Montreal really missed Domi's passing offensively.

Personally, I prefer Dvorak to those guys especially that he’s younger then those guys and we don’t know if they want to play in MTL.

 

[tazsub3]

We'll see who's available. And Kadri and Trochek are better than Dvorak. Paul is underrated. And while he's worse defensively, Montreal really missed Domi's passing offensively.

you saw him in the bubble, he passing was ahl 4th line level... and not much better since in Columbus

 

[sampollock]

Tatar will go back home I bet, no takers so far

 

[aresknights]

Dream big lol. Horvat would be a guy I kick tires on. (Or Dvorak as well at much less a cost) But can't see Van even thinking about moving Bo.
I'd offer KK, D prospect of choice, 1st n a 2nd for Bo thou that might be light for Van.
Love the London connections lol.
Bo with Zuk solves the 1/2C. Both strong 2 way Cs. Both big game players. Bo has a good history with Anderson from Jr.

 

[Deebs]

Dream big lol. Horvat would be a guy I kick tires on. (Or Dvorak as well at much less a cost) But can't see Van even thinking about moving Bo.
I'd offer KK, D prospect of choice, 1st n a 2nd for Bo thou that might be light for Van.
Love the London connections lol.
Bo with Zuk solves the 1/2C. Both strong 2 way Cs. Both big game players. Bo has a good history with Anderson from Jr.

Are there actual rumours Horvat is available? One of the better 2 way centers in the league imo

 

[salbutera]

Tatar will go back home I bet, no takers so far

Nah - I expect he’ll sign a “show me” contract like Hoffman last off-season

 

[aresknights]

We'll see who's available. And Kadri and Trochek are better than Dvorak. Paul is underrated. And while he's worse defensively, Montreal really missed Domi's passing offensively.

I think Dvorak would impress with the day to day little things required of a player. He was the glue guy in London for Marner n Tkachuk. He isn't flash n dash but knows and committed to the details of the game. Knows his role. Trochek impressed me in Jr but haven't seen much in the NHL. Kadri game I know well and def. Lots of pros to his game. More skilled than DVO but in my viewings in Jr......DVO the more focused team guy. Steady eddy. But yes higher upside with Kadri but more potential headaches.
All 3 would help, no doubt. Cost, salary n availability I guess

 

[salbutera]

Are there actual rumours Horvat is available? One of the better 2 way centers in the league imo

Don’t think so, but he’s UFA in 2-seasons and Van has $14M to ink both Hughes & Pettersson.

Habs were high on Horvat at 2013 draft trying to move up..

 

[aresknights]

Are there actual rumours Horvat is available? One of the better 2 way centers in the league imo

Nope just my day dream wish list. Never hurts to ask. Liked the kids game since MM and saw the progression, commitment to improve theu Jr. (Esp the skating n the work he put in)
His family is still involved in hockey around SW Ont.
Guy is a leader, committed to getting better, works his azz off, competes..... Just a player every team would benefit from having on a squad

 

[JianYang]

Tatar will go back home I bet, no takers so far

These players that get stuck in the secondary free agent market usually find it real tough.

Hoffman is a guy who actually got stuck without a contract last year right up until camp, and he ended up getting a lower contract than he has now.

Teams spend too much money early in free agency and then don't have the same money for whoever is still around.

 

[Deebs]

Don’t think so, but he’s UFA in 2-seasons and Van has $14M to ink both Hughes & Pettersson.

Habs were high on Horvat at 2013 draft trying to move up..

Ah, ok thanks. If he was available now, we should be all over him. Great player.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I think Dvorak would impress with the day to day little things required of a player. He was the glue guy in London for Marner n Tkachuk. He isn't flash n dash but knows and committed to the details of the game. Knows his role. Trochek impressed me in Jr but haven't seen much in the NHL. Kadri game I know well and def. Lots of pros to his game. More skilled than DVO but in my viewings in Jr......DVO the more focused team guy. Steady eddy. But yes higher upside with Kadri but more potential headaches.
All 3 would help, no doubt. Cost, salary n availability I guess

My general confusion with Dvorak interest is that he's basically the type of player that most on these boards have been complaining about having too much of for the last 5/6 years.

I like guys like Dvorak, but how badly do the Habs really need a two-way centerman (with not great defensive underlying numbers, but that might be reflected on the team) who produces very little 5v5 (lesser rate than Danault, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi the last three seasons)? Especially since he'll be costly.

 

[aresknights]

My general confusion with Dvorak interest is that he's basically the type of player that most on these boards have been complaining about having too much of for the last 5/6 years.

I like guys like Dvorak, but how badly do the Habs really need a two-way centerman (with not great defensive underlying numbers, but that might be reflected on the team) who produces very little 5v5 (lesser rate than Danault, Suzuki and Kotkaniemi the last three seasons)? Especially since he'll be costly.

Cause he is a cheaper add at 2/3 C than a close to PPG C that player 2 ways.
How much would a C you are suggesting costs o top.of a price for Dvorak. I think it gets steep. But who knows.

I think he would provide enough down the middle to bridge the gap for a couple years. Esp at the cost. Maybe another C does that better? But who? Not a Bozak fan here.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Cause he is a cheaper add at 2/3 C than a close to PPG C that player 2 ways.
How much would a C you are suggesting costs o top.of a price for Dvorak. I think it gets steep. But who knows.

I think he would provide enough down the middle to bridge the gap for a couple years. Esp at the cost. Maybe another C does that better? But who? Not a Bozak fan here.

I think you're underestimating what Dvorak will cost to acquire. You might view him a bridge the gap C, but other teams wont. Arizona isn't going to trade him without at least one high-end asset goes their way.

And my view is that Montreal needs to give Kotkaniemi a real chance. Either you can draft and develop or you ****ed up. But this yanking him around with new linemates every 3 games and dramatically shifting role will never work. Even Suzuki struggled like that last season. You've committed to developing him in the NHL, so develop him. Let him play consistently with good players and allow him to make mistakes. But if you wont do that, you better be looking for home run in a trade, not a base hit.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I can see the BargainBin special by signing Vatanen to a 1 year cheap contract to shore up the RD. Unless he can take advantage in a trade to make a significant difference, I think he’ll carry the cap we have to tue deadline and see where we stand. It’s the smart thing to do in a year where we can be anywhere in the standings.

Anderson Suzuki Caufield
Drouin KK Toffoli
Hoffman Evans Gally
Lehkonen Perrault Armia
Pacquette

Edmundson Petry
Chiarot Vatanen
Romanov Savard
Kulak Wideman

something like that looks like a Bergevin roster for now.

 

[aresknights]

I think you're underestimating what Dvorak will cost to acquire. You might view him a bridge the gap C, but other teams wont. Arizona isn't going to trade him without at least one high-end asset goes their way.

And my view is that Montreal needs to give Kotkaniemi a real chance. Either you can draft and develop or you ****ed up. But this yanking him around with new linemates every 3 games and dramatically shifting role will never work. Even Suzuki struggled like that last season. You've committed to developing him in the NHL, so develop him. Let him play consistently with good players and allow him to make mistakes. But if you wont do that, you better be looking for home run in a trade, not a base hit.

I don't think I'm underestimating what Dvorak would cost. I'd pay the going rate. And not just for a 2yr gap but for a bridge to see if KK can handle it as a trial and to see if CD fits. If it works out, resign Dvorak. If KK emerges as a 2C walk away from or trade Dvorak.
Not as simple as draft n develop of you ******up as you say. Too many variables.
KK isn't there yet. I wouldn't put all those eggs in 1 basket without support.
Sign a legitv2C and KK gets buried. With a Dvorak, you got flexibility.
Not getting into KK here.
I've made feelings clear. Like the kid, hope it works out, hope he is here long term, think he has some tools but alot to work on still. No where near ready for 2C FT role with no back up for the team success if he fails.