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HF Habs: Official Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread

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Miller Time

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Sep 16, 2004
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417 said:
Ok - so we agree then?

Not quite sure what the debate is about here...notice the premise of my comment that you originally commented on was about me not caring whether or not Sylvain Lefebvre coaches our D as an assistant coach. I think this team has bigger issues to deal with.

As long as the D-corps is built as it is, it doens't matter who is assistant coach. I think the biggest issue under SL has been his inability to develop talent to the NHL.

Well the assistant coach isn't directly responsible for developing talent to the NHL...his main role is to work as the sponge between the coach & players, know which D's should be out on the ice at what time and against who, run special teams either power play or penalty kill.

it might be a promotion for SL in terms of leagues (AHL to NHL) but his influence and power is actually greatly reduced if he was ever named assistant coach.

That being said - i have a hard time understanding how Bergevin could think this is a wise idea.


That's correct - I think assistant coach is not a priority for this team, TODAY.

I stand by that statement.


Yes - as long as the talent level is upgraded.

What has happened under Julien since Therrien took over?

The roster got worse and the results followed suit. Claude Julien just finished coaching one of the worst seasons of the Montreal Canadiens modern era, does that mean Therrien was better than him?

Of course not - it just means Therrien coached a better roster.


Probabl the best example of what i'm referring too when I say coaching is overstated.

I'll repeat what i'm trying to say...

hiring & firing decisions of the coaching staff are secondary and even tertiary to me.

Having a roster that a good coach can maximise talent from, matters way more. As I said earlier, think about the best assistant coach you can think of, place him in Montreal as one of CJ's assistants...

If you return the same exact D corps next year, results won't be all that better.
Click to expand...

i'm not sure how else to explain it to you, but you seem to be completely missing the point.

Coaching is a controllable variable. Quite likely the single most important variable when it comes to managing and maximizing performance.

As such, it is the most important variable to get right in an environment where talent acquisition is not a sustainable advantage.

Building, growing, developing and maximizing talent falls under the purview of the coaching staff. Get the coaching staff wrong, and you erode talent both in the short and long term.
Get it right, and you go in the opposite direction.

that doesn't negate or conflict with the reality that a certain minimum level of talent is necessary and that acquiring talent is an important priority.
 
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417

417

BBQ Chicken Alert!
Feb 20, 2003
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Miller Time said:
i'm not sure how else to explain it to you, but you seem to be completely missing the point.
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Maybe if you could tone down the condescending tone - it would help.

I'm not an idiot, I completely understand what you're saying - we agree on certain things but not on others. That doesn't mean I'm missing the point, it means I disagree.

After I wrote that coaching is overstated in terms of X's & O's...you agreed with me an reiterated that coaches are more required to handle personalities these days, which is why choosing the right person matters.

We both agree on this - and we both agree that Claude Julien is exponentially better at this particular aspect than Michel Therrien ever was.

But before you and I started debating this, I was talking with another poster not about Michel Therrien or Claude Julien or head coaches, but about the assistant coach job of JJD.

Miller Time said:
Coaching is a controllable variable. Quite likely the single most important variable when it comes to managing and maximizing performance.

As such, it is the most important variable to get right in an environment where talent acquisition is not a sustainable advantage.
Click to expand...
And here's where we disagree...

I think coaches can get more out of talented players because talented players have more to give. Thus talent, IMO, trumps coaching (it's a simplified answer for the purpose of this post - but it's not JUST what it comes down too obviously., nothing is every that simple).


Miller Time said:
Building, growing, developing and maximizing talent falls under the purview of the coaching staff. Get the coaching staff wrong, and you erode talent both in the short and long term.
Get it right, and you go in the opposite direction.

that doesn't negate or conflict with the reality that a certain minimum level of talent is necessary and that acquiring talent is an important priority.
Click to expand...
And IMO, even more important than the identity or abilities of the individual of the coach behind the bench.

A dozen years ago Mike Sullivan was laughed out of Boston for the job he did....he was fired by Chiarelli.

He never saw time behind an NHL bench until he was named as head coach of the Pittsburgh Penguins replacing Mike Johnston...

he's now won back to back Cups...is it because he's turned into a genius head coach since he was last fired?

Or is it because he's now coaching a Corsby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, etc?

Drill it down further...

Mike Sullivan's first year as head coach of the Boston Bruins, his team finished with over 100pts and 41 wins before getting upset in the 1st round by the Habs.

The GM at the time, Mike O'Connell, decides to do the Joe Thornton trade (which we all know how awful it was).

The next year, the Bruins miss the playoffs and Mike Sullivan is canned.

what happened in 1 offseason, did Mike Sullivan forget how to coach?

or did his GM get rid of some important players (talent) which significantly reduced Sullivan's ability to get more out of his team?
 
Sterling Archer

Sterling Archer

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Sep 26, 2006
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13,445
habsgirl5000 said:
its not a sample size.....we have been a mediocre team since the 90's and so have the NYI...there really isn't much difference, except we had a lucky run in 2010, but who really cares about that today?
Click to expand...

Good news is we have literally no players, coach, management or owners from that time.
 

axman88

Registered User
Apr 5, 2007
857
56
Keep the pics...trade Patches for a 2nd line center or 1st pairing LD. Try to hit some homeruns in free agency...depending on what patches is traded for...go after 2 centers or 1 center and 1 LD
 

Johnny31

Registered User
Aug 4, 2017
287
271
shutehinside said:
Because the Habs will forever be a terrible team for all of eternity. Taking a one year sample size works both ways. We finished first in the division last year. So by that theory we were always going to be the best team in the East. Tampa didn’t make the playoffs last year so why on Earth would Stamkos sign with a loser non playoff team?

Narrow minded points of view absent of any objective thought with blinders to possible outcomes that don’t fit your narrative are a terrible way to view things. Things change, teams get better or worse EVERY YEAR. No reason we can’t be back to contenders in the next year or two, especially if Tavares signs here even if that doesn’t fit your narrative.
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I hope the habs will get better fast, but put you in the place of tavares, you probably want to join a good team if you are going to left the NYI. The habs is really on the top of your list ?
 

Scriptor

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
7,780
4,757
King In Glory said:
I can't shake this re-occuring nightmare where we win the lottery for 2nd place and somehow we don't draft Svechnikov...Someone please reassure me.
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Maybe you missed the part in your dream where Svechnikov was picked 1st overall, ahead of Dahlin? Feel better?
 
Sorinth

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
11,012
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417 said:
But this idea that assistant coaches, in any way, have a direct influence on the outcome of games or players development...

Sorry, I don't buy that..
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You don't even believe the head coach has any influence on player development so I don't think this would surprise anyone.
 

paddy

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
817
153
The draft and the Paccioretty trade will be very important for this team's medium term future.
 

G0bias

Registered User
Oct 4, 2007
7,763
6,031
MTL
I find it funny that some are quick to point to Stephane Waite as one of Bergevin's best moves, having a great deal to do with Price being the player he is today.

But when comes the possibility of Bergevin hiring a bum like Lefevbre in a similar role, it's suddenly not a big deal and has no impact on players development or the games.

Can't wait for JJD to tell Dahlin to dump the puck out.
 
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Adam Michaels

Adam Michaels

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Jun 12, 2016
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Montreal
G0bias said:
I find it funny that some are quick to point to Stephane Waite as one of Bergevin's best moves, having a great deal to do with Price being the player he is today.

But when comes the possibility of Bergevin hiring a bum like Lefevbre in a similar role, it's suddenly not a big deal and has no impact on players development or the games.

Can't wait for JJD to tell Dahlin to dump the puck out.
Click to expand...

And he better f'n listen. Or else....
 
montreal

montreal

Go Habs Go
Mar 21, 2002
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G0bias said:
I find it funny that some are quick to point to Stephane Waite as one of Bergevin's best moves, having a great deal to do with Price being the player he is today.

But when comes the possibility of Bergevin hiring a bum like Lefevbre in a similar role, it's suddenly not a big deal and has no impact on players development or the games.

Can't wait for JJD to tell Dahlin to dump the puck out.
Click to expand...

If it were me, even Waite wouldn't be safe when your 10.5M goalie just had his worst season in his career by far. Unless of course they feel there was a legit reason, like something in his home life, injury impacted him, etc... since we don't know what goes on behind the scenes but if not you can't have a goalie that was one of the best players in the NHL turn into one of the worst in one year unless the knee injuries are really taking their toll.
 
Sterling Archer

Sterling Archer

Registered User
Sep 26, 2006
22,971
13,445
Johnny31 said:
I hope the habs will get better fast, but put you in the place of tavares, you probably want to join a good team if you are going to left the NYI. The habs is really on the top of your list ?
Click to expand...

They’re close. It’s a small number of teams that are 1) able to afford him 2) have the pieces in place to be a contender for a long time.

Montreal meets both criteria. Montreal is the only hockey market of the teams available where a player like Tavares can be recognized as the star he is and can leave a legacy that no other team can offer. We have what the nhl players deem as the best goalie and too game changer in Price and one of the hardest to play against and most respected people in Weber. Not to mention a ton of young talent as a support cast and more than enough money to fill any gaps. Add Tavares to the equation and he makes the difference on a team who was top in the Atlantic just a year ago and had catastrophic loses to our two key players all year.

I’m not saying he will sign. No one knows. I’m saying we’re just as much a landing spot as anyone else and more than most.
 
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