HF Habs: Official Montreal Canadiens Off-Season Thread

[Mrb1p]

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree. From following the Habs for almost 50 years I can honestly say that Marc Bergevin is as bad as Mike Milbury when it comes to being a GM. I would say he is is worse than Rejean Houle.

Disagree ? I think he's the worst GM in Habs history, and its not close. I was just pointing to the comment about Poile.

 

[durojean]

I actually think the right thing is done this summer. We need to be patient and wait for the future to grow.

Problem with Bergevin as always been the message he provides. From the glimpses we get of him, it always look like he reacts and he doesn't know where his team is headed. There is also the fact that what he thinks and tell us will happen always seem to not happen.

Example :

For six years he tell us that he is building his team with character as a first priority.

personally I wanted more talent and develop it well but, we had an idea of where he was going and what he was looking for. So I thought he was wrong but I wanted him to deliver on that.

6 years later : we have the team that as the less character for the Habs in the last 15 years.

It is very telling : he wants character but really doesn't recognize what it is.

 

[Redux91]

Danault, DLR & Armia will need to file for arbitration by Thursday, 5PM ET. And if they do, Habs will have 24 hours to accept it or not.

i would have to believe all 3 get their contracts before, or at least 2 of them lol

 

[Playmaker09]

First of all there is no rebuild they are trying to win...and you are calling Eric Staal who got 42 goals last year and is a true #1....mediocre and Duchene who is also a proven center is far from mediocre and you could sign these players to extensions.

Both have been in a downward spiral for years. And while Staal had a great year or two in Minny, he's been completely invisible in the playoffs and is 33. He's also shown no desire whatsoever to play in a canadian market.

So your plan is to give up prime assets to get players who won't take us anywhere near cup contention all while having absolutely no guarantee of them being here past 1 year.

There is no "rebuild" in the sense that we're not shopping off Price and Weber to the highest bidders. But that's a far cry from what you're suggesting and what's been proven over the last 2 weeks.

 

[Tyson]

Disagree ? I think he's the worst GM in Habs history, and its not close. I was just pointing to the comment about Poile.

Fair enough. Maybe I somewhat overate Poile. When comparing him to Bergevin though he resembles Sam Pollock.

 

[Laurentide]

Pretty ugly off-season so far. Since April presser:

* watched Eller score Cup winning goal and be a key player for the Caps.
* botched Pacioretty trade.
* were left out of the Tavares contract negotiations
* could not land a key free agent. to be clear, this wasn't planned. They were low on Stastny's list, and certainly would have loved to speak to Tavares.

The 'plan' is murky. On the one hand, he speaks of not over-spending. On the other, you have talk of playoffs without improving the team. He talks about the future, but fails to acquire help now.

I'm sure that Bergevin's original plan was to blow his brains out on Tavares and then, once he got him, to hopefully attract other decent free agents to come aboard. But when he didn't get Tavares and found out that he wasn't getting Stastny either, he finally did the right thing instead of the thing he would normally do. What he would have normally done is waste the cap space on various Plan B, C and D players, just to look busy. But this time, he figured out that those kinds of players don't get you anywhere and that cap space is a more valuable asset for a team at the bottom.

He may not have done the right thing intentionally, but in the end he did do what was best. I don't care if people don't want to give him credit for thinking it himself just as long as we get the desired result. Signing any expensive, big name free agents would have done nothing other than kick our problems down the road for a few months. Sooner or later you have to actually deal with these problems. They don't go away by themselves. Dealing with them sooner rather than later saves you time and expense.

 

[Laurentide]

Thats absolute BS, lol. The Preds were a tire fire for a long time.

Missed the POS in their first 5 years, went passed the 2nd round once in twenty years.

In 12-13 and 13-14 their center depth was worse than any team ever, only surpassed by this Habs team, or maybe not even. Legwand, Fisher, Spaling, Gaustad. Their winger depth was also really bad. Hornqvist, Erat, Smith, Wilson, Kostitsyn, etc. They had horrible teams that were carried by none other than Shea Weber. He basically rode Shea Weber and Pekka Rinne the same way Bergevin rode Subban and Price for most of his career.

You talked about players drafted ? From 05 to 2013 they basically drafted, Josi, Hornqvist, Ellis, Ekholm, Jones. Jones was a 4th overall pick and considered by many to be the best player in the draft. That 70 picks in 8 years. 17 top 50 picks, 7 top 25 picks.

Timmins is crucified for 08 to 11 where he drafted only Gallagher with 25 picks. Four top 50 picks.

If anything, HFHabs sweetheart GM is a carbon copy of Bergevin. A bad GM that somehow caught it over time.

This.

Poile is the most over-rated GM in NHL history next to whoever happens to be running the Leafs at any given time (Quinn, Dryden, Burke, Dubas...)

 

[Tyson]

Ottawa has given teams permission to speak to Erik Karlsson on a contract. I wonder if Bergevin will do the same with Pacioretty??

 

[Kwikwi]

I am still wondering, the amount of nhl contracts already. Impossible mb is done.

Even quantity of quality, if those a not picks or young propects... no more can fit

 

[habsterr]

No roster changes, projected bottom 5 in NHL.

Pacioretty - Drouin - Lehkonen
Domi - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Plekanec - Shaw
Hudon - De La Rose - Armia
Peca Deslauriers

Reilly - Weber
Alzner - Petry
Ouellet - Benn
Schlemko

Price
Niemi

 

[Laurentide]

It is very telling : he wants character but really doesn't recognize what it is.

To Bergevin, a "character" player is someone who has an equal measure of talent and humility because only Bergevin and his F-bomb buddies are allowed to have egos. He likes Pacioretty because he's talented but he loves Pacioretty because he's quiet and knows his place. For his part, Molson likes character because it's an intangible asset and, as such, has no monetary value attached to it. This saves him money in the long run. A guy with elite talent is likely to have an ego big enough to want to get paid for it. A less talented player who has character asks for and makes less money but can also be marketed as something better than he is because of these intangible, unquantifiable qualities.

So to put it in a nutshell, the definition of "character":

For Bergevin: without ego; easy to manipulate
For Molson: marketable; cost-efficient (like "better" hot dogs and beer)

 

[groovejuice]

This.

Poile is the most over-rated GM in NHL history next to whoever happens to be running the Leafs at any given time (Quinn, Dryden, Burke, Dubas...)

Not sure why you added Dubas in that list. One month on the job and he managed to win the Tavares sweepstakes and unload JVR and Bozak. That's great work in a very short time.

 

[Laurentide]

Not sure why you added Dubas in that list. One month on the job and he managed to win the Tavares sweepstakes and unload JVR and Bozak. That's great work in a very short time.

Bergevin was a genius in his first couple of months too. How much intellect does it take to win a lottery where the grand prize was willing to take a hometown discount because his parents bought him Leafs bedsheets when he was a kid?

 

[theghost1]

Both have been in a downward spiral for years. And while Staal had a great year or two in Minny, he's been completely invisible in the playoffs and is 33. He's also shown no desire whatsoever to play in a canadian market.

So your plan is to give up prime assets to get players who won't take us anywhere near cup contention all while having absolutely no guarantee of them being here past 1 year.

There is no "rebuild" in the sense that we're not shopping off Price and Weber to the highest bidders. But that's a far cry from what you're suggesting and what's been proven over the last 2 weeks.

You clearly have NO CLUE how to put together a winning team.....there is NO rebuild...PERIOD....if you are rebuilding why the hell would you be trying to make the playoffs as Bergevin said they are doing....making the playoffs means you will be drafting 17th or 18th overall .....if you want to do a rebuild you trade Price and Weber and go for 1st overall pick.

 

[groovejuice]

Bergevin was a genius in his first couple of months too. How much intellect does it take to win a lottery where the grand prize was willing to take a hometown discount because his parents bought him Leafs bedsheets when he was a kid?

Yeah, Drewiski and Armstrong was sheer genius. Not sure why you're belittling the accomplishment of landing Tavares. Sure they had advantage, but it was hardly in the bag.

 

[Playmaker09]

You clearly have NO CLUE how to put together a winning team.....there is NO rebuild...PERIOD....if you are rebuilding why the hell would you be trying to make the playoffs as Bergevin said they are doing....making the playoffs means you will be drafting 17th or 18th overall .....if you want to do a rebuild you trade Price and Weber and go for 1st overall pick.

I couldn't care less what story Bergevin is spinning to calm the media. His actions speak differently. For the third time.

The Canadiens are not rebuilding. Nor are they pushing for a cup. There is a middle ground which you're obviously completely oblivious to.

What they are doing is keeping the majority of their players (which outside of Weber and Price are actually quite young) and choosing to address their three main needs (1LD, 1C and 2C) through the draft and by accumulating young assets and picks. They're hoping to be ready to compete in 2-3 years, while Weber and Price still have a few good years left. Step one was achieved this year with the pick of Kotkaniemi, clearly showing they are not prioritizing the improvement of the team in the next year or two..

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, the Canadiens have done in the past 6 months even remotely points to them trying to compete now. I don't give a damn what story you heard from Marinaro or Antichambre or some press conference where Bergevin is trying to save face.

There's absolutely no point continuing this discussion with you.

 

[Schooner Guy]

I haven't heard any free agent noise around Luca Sbisa. He had 14 points in 30 games this season for Vegas and then had 4 points in 12 playoff games after coming back from injury. He's always been solid but is injury prone. I know he isn't the ideal top 2 LHD the Habs need but he is a definitely a top 4 on our sorry blue line. A definite upgrade over Schlemko or Benn on the left side.

 

[badbrains]

I actually think the right thing is done this summer. We need to be patient and wait for the future to grow.

Problem with Bergevin as always been the message he provides. From the glimpses we get of him, it always look like he reacts and he doesn't know where his team is headed. There is also the fact that what he thinks and tell us will happen always seem to not happen.

Example :

For six years he tell us that he is building his team with character as a first priority.

personally I wanted more talent and develop it well but, we had an idea of where he was going and what he was looking for. So I thought he was wrong but I wanted him to deliver on that.

6 years later : we have the team that as the less character for the Habs in the last 15 years.

It is very telling : he wants character but really doesn't recognize what it is.

This exactly.

My interpretation of what MB sees as character is players who don't celebrate excessively, don't speak out of turn or deviate from the teams PR training, don't have an outgoing personality, don't often display dangles or flashy stick handling, don't enjoy a night out here and there. Basically dont stand out in a crowd at all.

Exactly as Bergevin was as a player, pretty much. Boring, undertalented and never won a thing in 20 years in the league.

 

[Schooner Guy]

This exactly.

My interpretation of what MB sees as character is players who don't celebrate excessively, don't speak out of turn or deviate from the teams PR training, don't have an outgoing personality, don't often display dangles or flashy stick handling, don't enjoy a night out here and there. Basically dont stand out in a crowd at all.

Exactly as Bergevin was as a player, pretty much. Boring, undertalented and never won a thing in 20 years in the league.

OK...this is silly. Twenty years in the NHL means he was a decent player. Undertalented? Do you know how many high end talented players don't ever play a game in the NHL? Where did Kyle Dubas play?

Anyhow....I'm totally fine that he isn't a great GM but it's ridiculous to point out his player role in his long NHL career as a detriment to his capability as a GM. A lot of "grinders" have become very good NHL coaches or executives. A lot of stars have been weak coaches or execs.

 

[Zorba]

I haven't heard any free agent noise around Luca Sbisa. He had 14 points in 30 games this season for Vegas and then had 4 points in 12 playoff games after coming back from injury. He's always been solid but is injury prone. I know he isn't the ideal top 2 LHD the Habs need but he is a definitely a top 4 on our sorry blue line. A definite upgrade over Schlemko or Benn on the left side.

He CANT play D. He’s awful
He was a pylon in Vancouver. There’s a reason he isn’t signed

 

[Laurentide]

Yeah, Drewiski and Armstrong was sheer genius. Not sure why you're belittling the accomplishment of landing Tavares. Sure they had advantage, but it was hardly in the bag.

Nothing was in their power; it was all up to JT. They made it known they were interested, he offered them a meeting. They went to the meeting and said "here's our offer" just like the other 5 teams he met with. At the end of the day, Tavares chose to play for his hometown team. The money was going to be there no matter which team he chose but only one was the team he cheered for as a kid. Again, you can thank all the Leaf cheerleaders on HNIT and TSN for that as much as the Leafs themselves. They're the ones who brainwashed a 7 year old Tavares into believing that the Leafs were the end-all, be-all of hockey teams even though, when Tavares was a kid, the Leafs were so bad they shouldn't have even been shown on TV to begin with.

Back in 2007-8 when JT was 7 years old and sleeping on those Leafs bedsheets while wearing his Leafs pajamas, his favourite team finished dead last in their division and 11 points out of a playoff spot. But the networks still rammed them down the nation's collective throat two and three times a week, just like always.

 

[Laurentide]

This exactly.

My interpretation of what MB sees as character is players who don't celebrate excessively, don't speak out of turn or deviate from the teams PR training, don't have an outgoing personality, don't often display dangles or flashy stick handling, don't enjoy a night out here and there. Basically dont stand out in a crowd at all.

Exactly as Bergevin was as a player, pretty much. Boring, undertalented and never won a thing in 20 years in the league.

Actually when Bergevin was a player his personality was quite outgoing. He was the class clown in every dressing room for every team he played on and had a well-earned reputation as a "bon vivant" not unlike Subban (although admittedly without the social media profile of PK since social media didn't exist back then)

Ironic, when you think about it.

 

[Wats]

This coming season would be made so much better if Pacioretty can be traded for a very good package. Mid-season, Weber gets dealt for a very good package after he hopefully re-establishes some value.

The return from both of them should make the Habs prospect pool from average to good. Hopefully after 2019 draft, the prospect pool will then be one of the best.

2019 July 1: New GM, stacked prospect pool with hopefully another top 5 pick added, lot of cap space, positive development of existing young players in AHL/NHL.

One can dream.

 

[1909]

Ottawa has given teams permission to speak to Erik Karlsson on a contract. I wonder if Bergevin will do the same with Pacioretty??

I think it's pretty much what they have done with LA (and perhaps SJ)....

Too bad the deal with LA did not work. Habs would finally have a decent LD (Murzin) to play with Weber, as well as the 19th overall pick who could had been Beaudin or Begrenn

 

[1909]

This coming season would be made so much better if Pacioretty can be traded for a very good package. Mid-season, Weber gets dealt for a very good package after he hopefully re-establishes some value.

The return from both of them should make the Habs prospect pool from average to good. Hopefully after 2019 draft, the prospect pool will then be one of the best.

2019 July 1: New GM, stacked prospect pool with hopefully another top 5 pick added, lot of cap space, positive development of existing young players in AHL/NHL.

One can dream.

Can we start guessing how many fans will show up at the Bell centre this coming season to watch that team ? I will go with 18,000 on average. And the TV ratings will be even lower than last year.

They better win, and win fast, right from Game one of the training camp.