[Official] Fire/Tolerate Travis Green Thread

[Canucks1096]

Virtanen has his best developing season under Green. Not sure how you could ask for anything more. You expect Green to suddenly make Virtanen a 30 goal scorer or soemthing ? What the hell is your expectations on "developing him faster"? Your whole premise is absurd.

And, yeah. Boeser, Pettersson.... you know. Those guys. They have done pretty well under Green.

Other than those players, who else does Green have to really work with? You expecting Lind to suddenly become an NHLer because Green is the coach?

Everything you've suggested is weird considering most young players on the Canucks have seen success under Green. Who hasn't ? Who are these young players Green's "mythe" is ruining ?

Both Hutton and Virtanen, who were developing poorly have both rebounded this season under Green, so who are we missing here ?

Basically. What the **** are you talking about ?

You do realize Virtanen only had two coaches since his turned pro. You are pretty much saying Green is a better coach than Willy. That's it.

With Green, Virtanen is now a player that can take a regular shift and is reliable. That's all, I do expect more offence. 3 goals in his last 31 games. In term of 5 on 5. The numbers is pretty the much the same during his first season. He hasnt improve. Since he is more reliable he has opportunities to get some empty net points and with the lack of depth he gets some pp time as well. The number 5 on 5 It hasn't improve.

Pettersson and Boeser. They can perform with any coaches. Green very little to do with it.

Goldobin still hasn't a lot of work to do

Hutton rebounded with Green. Sure but he also had his worst season under Green. When Green took over both Button and Stecher took a step back.

In Utica which regular forward or defencemen became a regular in the nhl. Only Virtanen. The reason why Green got hired because he was good at developing young players. Yet only Virtanen made the nhl out All the forwards and defence in the ahl.

Pouliot. I don't expect much from Pouliot but a good coach might be able to turn him into a reliable number 7th D like Biega. Pouliot shouldn't even play any nhl games.

All those years with Markstrom in ahl and nhl. Markstrom is finally looking like a ok number 1 goalie. That a along time

 

[mossey3535]

I've said for awhile that Green has done nothing for Virtanen's development. LIke you could make an argument that Jakey has looked his best this season, after he worked with Pavel Barber in the off-season. So Pavel Barber has done more to develop Jakey than the entire Canucks coaching staff.

Jakey's regression lately is just more evidence that nobody is talking to this kid and telling him what to do. Because he is off, he looks totally clueless. It also explains why somehow Pouliot and Guddy are essentially the same players - they never change.

 

[pgj98m3]

It’s possible we are a bad team with 2-3 good players and one superstar. To be fair Green hasn’t much to work with but his deployment decisions drive me nuts.

 

[tyhee]

I've said for awhile that Green has done nothing for Virtanen's development. LIke you could make an argument that Jakey has looked his best this season, after he worked with Pavel Barber in the off-season. So Pavel Barber has done more to develop Jakey than the entire Canucks coaching staff.

Jakey's regression lately is just more evidence that nobody is talking to this kid and telling him what to do. Because he is off, he looks totally clueless. It also explains why somehow Pouliot and Guddy are essentially the same players - they never change.

Saying Green has done nothing for Virtanen's development appears to me to be one of the stranger positions I've read on hfb.

Let's go back a few years and remember the Jake Virtanen of 2016-17. He arrived in Utica after being useless in 10 games with the Canucks, recording 1 assist in those 10 games and having a FF%Rel of -7.4 (after +3.9 as a rookie the season before.) Yes, it's a small sample size, but it totally meets the eye test. Virtanen was terrible.

He was sent to Utica. I haven't seen it elsewhere, but I've seen descriptions on here (I think from @BadGoalie but I could be wrong on that) that suggested when Virtanen got to Utica he treated his being there like a joke to start with, at least until his Comets teammates didn't go along with him on that.

There followed hours of individual instruction. To take a description from Virtanen:

“He’s like, ‘I’ve told you 30 times. I’ve told you for two years to do this,’ ” Virtanen said Tuesday. “It’s a little thing and sometimes he gets frustrated, but I’m a young guy. I’m still learning. ... He’s a really honest coach. He’s hard on me but it’s nice to have a coach who cares. I’ve learned a lot from Travis.”

Baumgartnet's description of how they'd dealt with Virtanen was "Travis was really good for him last year.” “Keeping your thumb on him,” Baumgartner answered when asked to describe the approach. “There are players you have to do to that with consistently, and he was one of them at that point."
Ed Willes: Canucks’ Virtanen turns the corner … with just ‘a little help’

Now take it that JV was a player that they continually told things to and considered they had to keep him under thumb, fast forward a couple of years. Do you really believe that Travis Green has gone from someone who repeatedly harped on things and spent a lot of time instructing Virtanen to one that doesn't tell his player what to do?

Or is maybe the player not hearing it and taking it in?

What is there to give anyone the impression that Green doesn't tell players what is expected from them? I know, some just don't get it, but even they get it sometimes. Sometimes Goldobin has come out and fought harder and been more responsible, which results in more ice time. Then he sluffs it off and his ice time diminishes.

It seems fairly clear that Green is not a coach who will put up with lack of positioning and effort. Alexander Burmistrov was a great example and his view of the game was that he would do best if the coach just told him to go play his game. Green wanted 200 foot responsibility which wasn't Burmistrov's game, so Burmistrov sat. There's a description of that situation at After getting scratched for a 7th defenceman, Alex Burmistrov retires. Wait, what?

There are and always have been players like that. To put players not doing what is expected-sometimes but not others-on a coach who harps on effort, positioning and defensive play as if he doesn't tell those players what is expected of them makes no sense.

 

[F A N]

What is there to give anyone the impression that Green doesn't tell players what is expected from them? I know, some just don't get it, but even they get it sometimes. Sometimes Goldobin has come out and fought harder and been more responsible, which results in more ice time. Then he sluffs it off and his ice time diminishes.

It's a story that some posters here like to spread around to suggest that the Canucks are poor at communications.

 

[pgj98m3]

Saying Green has done nothing for Virtanen's development appears to me to be one of the strange He’s a really honest coach. He’s hard on me but it’s nice to have a coach who cares. I’ve learned a lot from Travis.st things I've read on hfb.

Let's go back a few years and remember the Jake Virtanen of 2016-17. He arrived in Utica after being useless in 10 games with the Canucks, recording 1 assist in those 10 games and having a FF%Rel of -7.4 (after +3.9 as a rookie the season before.) Yes, it's a small sample size, but it totally meets the eye test. Virtanen was terrible.

He was sent to Utica. I haven't seen it elsewhere, but I've seen descriptions on here (I think from @BadGoalie but I could be wrong on that) that suggested when Virtanen got to Utica he treated his being there like a joke to start with, at least until his Comets teammates didn't go along with him on that.

There followed hours of individual instruction. To take a description from Virtanen:

“He’s like, ‘I’ve told you 30 times. I’ve told you for two years to do this,’ ” Virtanen said Tuesday. “It’s a little thing and sometimes he gets frustrated, but I’m a young guy. I’m still learning. ... He’s a really honest coach. He’s hard on me but it’s nice to have a coach who cares. I’ve learned a lot from Travis.”

Baumgartnet's description of how they'd dealt with Virtanen was "Travis was really good for him last year.” “Keeping your thumb on him,” Baumgartner answered when asked to describe the approach. “There are players you have to do to that with consistently, and he was one of them at that point."
Ed Willes: Canucks’ Virtanen turns the corner … with just ‘a little help’

Now take it that JV was a player that they continually told things to and considered they had to keep him under thumb, fast forward a couple of years. Do you really believe that Travis Green has gone from someone who repeatedly harped on things and spent a lot of time instructing Virtanen to one that doesn't tell his player what to do?

Or is maybe the player not hearing it and taking it in?

What is there to give anyone the impression that Green doesn't tell players what is expected from them? I know, some just don't get it, but even they get it sometimes. Sometimes Goldobin has come out and fought harder and been more responsible, which results in more ice time. Then he sluffs it off and his ice time diminishes.

It seems fairly clear that Green is not a coach who will put up with lack of positioning and effort. Alexander Burmistrov was a great example and his view of the game was that he would do best if the coach just told him to go play his game. Green wanted 200 foot responsibility which wasn't Burmistrov's game, so Burmistrov sat. There's a description of that situation at After getting scratched for a 7th defenceman, Alex Burmistrov retires. Wait, what?

There are and always have been players like that. To put players not doing what is expected-sometimes but not others-on a coach who harps on effort, positioning and defensive play as if he doesn't tell those players what is expected of them makes no sense.

The counter argument is that a good coach recognizes what a player can do and maximizes that. As opposed to trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Not claiming one approach is superior to another...at this point

 

[Disappointed EP40]

You do realize Virtanen only had two coaches since his turned pro. You are pretty much saying Green is a better coach than Willy. That's it.

With Green, Virtanen is now a player that can take a regular shift and is reliable. That's all, I do expect more offence. 3 goals in his last 31 games. In term of 5 on 5. The numbers is pretty the much the same during his first season. He hasnt improve. Since he is more reliable he has opportunities to get some empty net points and with the lack of depth he gets some pp time as well. The number 5 on 5 It hasn't improve.

Pettersson and Boeser. They can perform with any coaches. Green very little to do with it.

Goldobin still hasn't a lot of work to do

Hutton rebounded with Green. Sure but he also had his worst season under Green. When Green took over both Button and Stecher took a step back.

In Utica which regular forward or defencemen became a regular in the nhl. Only Virtanen. The reason why Green got hired because he was good at developing young players. Yet only Virtanen made the nhl out All the forwards and defence in the ahl.

Pouliot. I don't expect much from Pouliot but a good coach might be able to turn him into a reliable number 7th D like Biega. Pouliot shouldn't even play any nhl games.

All those years with Markstrom in ahl and nhl. Markstrom is finally looking like a ok number 1 goalie. That a along time

I was going to address all the holes in your arguments, but I don't have the hours and hours to break down the stupidity in most of the things listed above.

Coaches don't magically turn bad players into good ones. Bringing up Pouilet just shows how thin the straws are you're grasping at here. He's terrible. And if he doesn't get credit for Pettersson of Boeser, he sure as hell can't take the blame for Pouilet and Goldoblin FFS.

You know Green doesn't coach in the AHL right ?

Your arguments make little to no sense. You said he's bad with young players yet more young players this season, under Green, are succeeding all at once, which is something we haven't seen in a couple decades.

 

[Cupless44]

One thing Green is not doing to raise Virtanen's game is play him on the right line with a decent center. You have put one of the 5 fastest players in the NHL with a slow center, a center with one assist all season.

Given the investment in Virtanen why not commit to a month with Horvat, who plays straight ahead with speed and see what you really have? I mean an extended look, not a period here and there. This coach is playing Leivo, Eriksson, Roussel, Granlund with Horvat this year. Not actually top line wingers. Are any of those more important than developing Virtanen as part of the future core?

 

[Disappointed EP40]

I've said for awhile that Green has done nothing for Virtanen's development. LIke you could make an argument that Jakey has looked his best this season, after he worked with Pavel Barber in the off-season. So Pavel Barber has done more to develop Jakey than the entire Canucks coaching staff.

Jakey's regression lately is just more evidence that nobody is talking to this kid and telling him what to do. Because he is off, he looks totally clueless. It also explains why somehow Pouliot and Guddy are essentially the same players - they never change.

Just because you've said it for awhile doesn't make it right.

"Jakey" is probably better due to having Green for a couple seasons than Pavel f***ing Barber for a couple months.

Again. Blaming Green for the shitty players on the team. May as well give him credit for Pettersson and Boeser then. You show me a coach that could make Pouliot less of a disaster and Gundbranson a positive advanced stat player. Doesn't exist.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

One thing Green is not doing to raise Virtanen's game is play him on the right line with a decent center. You have put one of the 5 fastest players in the NHL with a slow center, a center with one assist all season.

Given the investment in Virtanen why not commit to a month with Horvat, who plays straight ahead with speed and see what you really have? I mean an extended look, not a period here and there. This coach is playing Leivo, Eriksson, Roussel, Granlund with Horvat this year. Not actually top line wingers. Are any of those more important than developing Virtanen as part of the future core?

Based on all accounts. Leivo, Baerstchi, Eriksson should be playing with Horvat because Virtanen. Him working on the third....

...wait. Did you just call Sutter slow ?

I absolutely hate Sutter, but slow, he is not.

The third line is perfect for him to develop on anyway. Learn the defensive side that he needs to learn. He has to drive to play and make things happen; he'd be a passenger on Horvat/Pettersson line. When he shows he can handle the defensive aspect well enough to drive up some offensive possession... you think about moving him to Horvat's line.

 

[mossey3535]

Saying Green has done nothing for Virtanen's development appears to me to be one of the strange He’s a really honest coach. He’s hard on me but it’s nice to have a coach who cares. I’ve learned a lot from Travis.st things I've read on hfb.

Let's go back a few years and remember the Jake Virtanen of 2016-17. He arrived in Utica after being useless in 10 games with the Canucks, recording 1 assist in those 10 games and having a FF%Rel of -7.4 (after +3.9 as a rookie the season before.) Yes, it's a small sample size, but it totally meets the eye test. Virtanen was terrible.

He was sent to Utica. I haven't seen it elsewhere, but I've seen descriptions on here (I think from @BadGoalie but I could be wrong on that) that suggested when Virtanen got to Utica he treated his being there like a joke to start with, at least until his Comets teammates didn't go along with him on that.

There followed hours of individual instruction. To take a description from Virtanen:

“He’s like, ‘I’ve told you 30 times. I’ve told you for two years to do this,’ ” Virtanen said Tuesday. “It’s a little thing and sometimes he gets frustrated, but I’m a young guy. I’m still learning. ... He’s a really honest coach. He’s hard on me but it’s nice to have a coach who cares. I’ve learned a lot from Travis.”

Baumgartnet's description of how they'd dealt with Virtanen was "Travis was really good for him last year.” “Keeping your thumb on him,” Baumgartner answered when asked to describe the approach. “There are players you have to do to that with consistently, and he was one of them at that point."
Ed Willes: Canucks’ Virtanen turns the corner … with just ‘a little help’

Now take it that JV was a player that they continually told things to and considered they had to keep him under thumb, fast forward a couple of years. Do you really believe that Travis Green has gone from someone who repeatedly harped on things and spent a lot of time instructing Virtanen to one that doesn't tell his player what to do?

Or is maybe the player not hearing it and taking it in?

What is there to give anyone the impression that Green doesn't tell players what is expected from them? I know, some just don't get it, but even they get it sometimes. Sometimes Goldobin has come out and fought harder and been more responsible, which results in more ice time. Then he sluffs it off and his ice time diminishes.

It seems fairly clear that Green is not a coach who will put up with lack of positioning and effort. Alexander Burmistrov was a great example and his view of the game was that he would do best if the coach just told him to go play his game. Green wanted 200 foot responsibility which wasn't Burmistrov's game, so Burmistrov sat. There's a description of that situation at After getting scratched for a 7th defenceman, Alex Burmistrov retires. Wait, what?

There are and always have been players like that. To put players not doing what is expected-sometimes but not others-on a coach who harps on effort, positioning and defensive play as if he doesn't tell those players what is expected of them makes no sense.

Maybe he is not effectively communicating. Maybe there is a different approach he could or should be taking? I guess he should just give up and use the players who put in the effort, positioning and defensive play?

Except most of the roster fails at multiple aspects of that philosophy. He also applies those standards for responsibility in a really biased manner with some players. Is my conclusion then that he is a good coach with poor players?

Actually I do think he is a decent coach overall but he has a lot of learning to do especially at the NHL level. He's made mistakes this year that he should have learned from last year.

 

[F A N]

The counter argument is that a good coach recognizes what a player can do and maximizes that. As opposed to trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.
Not claiming one approach is superior to another...at this point

That's the balance right? On the one hand there's the maximizing the potential of his roster. When Goldobin was putting up points alongside EP40 there's a strong argument for just letting Goldy play his game. The problem is that Green doesn't think Goldy has been productive of late and Goldy certainly hasn't been scoring so he's sitting because he's not part of the maximizing the potential of his roster equation. On the other hand, there's the player development aspect. At some point you stop treating a young player like a player who is going to develop further.

If Goldy doesn't play the way Green wants to play, is he a good player to have on the Canucks? Is he an NHL player? Is so then maybe you leave well enough alone. If not, then you do hammer a square peg into a round hole and hope you round off the square peg enough to fit into the round hole. Of course you also have situations like Scotty Bowman making Yzerman play a 200 foot game.

 

[Cupless44]

Based on all accounts. Leivo, Baerstchi, Eriksson should be playing with Horvat because Virtanen. Him working on the third....

...wait. Did you just call Sutter slow ?

I absolutely hate Sutter, but slow, he is not.

The third line is perfect for him to develop on anyway. Learn the defensive side that he needs to learn. He has to drive to play and make things happen; he'd be a passenger on Horvat/Pettersson line. When he shows he can handle the defensive aspect well enough to drive up some offensive possession... you think about moving him to Horvat's line.

Sutter is looking very poor since returning from injury, and is indeed looking very slow out there.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Sutter is looking very poor since returning from injury, and is indeed looking very slow out there.

To say he's a slow player is just wrong though. Jake and his progression this year just says to me, he should stay the course. He'll get an upgrade on his center as his game develops IMO.

 

[moog35]

Two WHL championships (plus coach of the year), a Calder Cup, a bronze medal at the Olympics (with an ECHL quality team) and a Spengler Cup gold. He was one game under .500 here (Green is currently 10 games under). I don't think he is the second coming or anything but to call him "terrible" is asinine. Plus he has been gone for a season and a half now so bringing him up constantly (as so many here do) seems like pique to me. Certainly Green is no better and is probably worse...

Willie was terrible here though. I don’t care what his AHL/WHL resume is. Lots of top prospects put up great numbers in the CHL/AHL but bust in the NHL and rightfully get labeled as busts.

Willie was a bust here

 

[Canucks1096]

I was going to address all the holes in your arguments, but I don't have the hours and hours to break down the stupidity in most of the things listed above.

Coaches don't magically turn bad players into good ones. Bringing up Pouilet just shows how thin the straws are you're grasping at here. He's terrible. And if he doesn't get credit for Pettersson of Boeser, he sure as hell can't take the blame for Pouilet and Goldoblin FFS.

You know Green doesn't coach in the AHL right ?

Your arguments make little to no sense. You said he's bad with young players yet more young players this season, under Green, are succeeding all at once, which is something we haven't seen in a couple decades.

A lot of stuff I listed are facts. Not sure how it's stupidity. You don't need to spend hours breaking it down. Only take a few minutes for a reply.

Virtanen even strength/5 on 5 2015/2016 13 P in 55 games. This season even strength/ 5 on 5. 14 P in 51 games. Considering the fact that it is higher scoring now. You can make argument he didn't improve at all offensively. The 5 on 5 numbers it is a fact and not an opinion.

Yes I know Green is not Utica coach but he did coach there for 4 years. Out of all the forwards and defensemens and only one became an nhl player. Again that is fact and not an opinion. Green came to the nhl with this reputation that he is good with young players. Where is the evidences?

Pettersson Boeser and Horvat. The star players. I think most people will agree regardless of who the coach is. Those 3 would be able to perform. Who are all the young players you are talking about?

Hutton and Stecher both took a step back last year when Green took over and now both of them improve this year. Compare them to both of Hutton and Stecher rookie season when Green wasn't the coach. I don't believe Gree made them improve from their rookie year.

Yes I know coach can't make a bad player good. But it is possible make ahl defensemen that has some talent into a reliable number 7. Pouliot at times did look like a number 6 D last year. This year he is playing worst than last year.

Goldobin. Read what user FAN said.

Jake Virtanen 3 yrs ago can't take a regular shift. Now he can. That's it.

A good coach can't make a 4th line a 2nd line player but good coach can definitely make a player produce a little more. During his press conference he got a hired he said I want to turn a 15 goals to a 25 goals scorer.

 

[UnleashRasmus]

As a Buffalo Sabres fan, you can gladly have Phil Housley for Travis Green.

 

[xtra]

As a Buffalo Sabres fan, you can gladly have Phil Housley for Travis Green.

Only if you take benning with green

 

[Hit the post]

Only if you take benning with green

We'll throw in Weisbrod for free (salary retention) as well!

Should warn Sabrefan that Benning may have an previously undisclosed upper body injury [brain].

 

[PM]

I can’t believe there are actually people (person?) who still defend Willie after his series against the Flames. That was the worst display of coaching I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen a coach have a more negative impact on a hockey game(s) in the last 25 years.

 

[bbud]

I can’t believe there are actually people (person?) who still defend Willie after his series against the Flames. That was the worst display of coaching I’ve ever seen. I’ve never seen a coach have a more negative impact on a hockey game(s) in the last 25 years.

It's funny I had optimistic hope for WD year one he gets lucky makes playoffs but those decisions started to show he was so far out of touch it was a joke.
Even more entertaining LA brings him back lol.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Still think it was a minor miracle the Canucks made the playoffs that year. The layoff series notwithstanding...

 

[Ryan Miller*]

Craig Button says Travis Green should get Jack Adams consideration. What a great coach we have.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Craig Button says Travis Green should get Jack Adams consideration. What a great coach we have.

Jack Adams and a Calder would be pretty sweet.

 

[TruGr1t]

Craig Button says Travis Green should get Jack Adams consideration. What a great coach we have.

I'll definitely give Green credit for pulling some extra mileage out of a few parts of this otherwise crappy roster. He's largely benefiting from two things that are also making the Canucks look better than they actually are: a) Pettersson; b) The Western Conference, and specifically the Pacific Division, absolutely suck.