Official Coyotes 2019-2020 Roster Discussion Thread #4

[WrinkledPossum]

When you are fishing around with trade ammo equivalent of monopoly money, Ryjo is a good enough get.

What happens if he comes here with less skilled wingers and becomes an 8M, 45 point C? His point production trajectory contract are waaaaay too similar to Stepans.

 

[rt]

I'm right there with you, man. I think I'm gonna wait and see what Chayka does at the draft and in UFA before I give up completely, but I don't know that I've ever been more happy than right now that I didn't buy that STH package I was considering at the start of the year.

I'm with you and @RABBIT - I'm just about done.

 

[rt]

Johansen is not the solution. He's just another in the "not quite a 1C, but almost" category ala what Stepan was a few years ago.

1. Win 1st overall pick
2. Trade OEL for Johansen
3. Somehow convince Hall to stay anyway
4. Stepan+Raanta to Ottawa on bonus day for a 2021 7th round pick.
5. Trade the likes of Hinostroza, Fischer, and Oesterle for mean bastards that play hard on the 4th line and 3rd pair.

Hall-Dvorak-Garland
Lafreniere-RyJo-Schmaltz
Keller-Hayton-Kessel
Crouse-XXXX-XXXX
XXXX

Chychrun-Hjalmarsson
Goligoski-Soderstrom
Capobianco-Demers
XXXX

Kuemper
Hill

 

[XX]

What happens if he comes here with less skilled wingers and becomes an 8M, 45 point C? His point production trajectory contract are waaaaay too similar to Stepans.

It's time to accept that Tocchet's system produces 25% less offense and makes guys (especially pure skill guys) look like shit at 5v5 because there is essentially no plan. Tocc's system is the equivalent of just clearing the ball long and into the opposition's final third in soccer, hoping the defense makes a mistake. It's miserable. It's ineffective against even average coaching. It leads to way more defending than you otherwise would have with a better offense. It will sometimes chew up a team that doesn't want to skate or is just tired, but for the most part, it's bad.

When your options for swapping the players are limited, you swap the middling coach.

 

[Jakey53]

What happens if he comes here with less skilled wingers and becomes an 8M, 45 point C? His point production trajectory contract are waaaaay too similar to Stepans.

That is what I said earlier.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm with you and @RABBIT - I'm just about done.

I hear this from you at least once a year. Must say, you are consistent.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I hear this from you at least once a year. Must say, you are consistent.

Not as consistent as the Coyotes seem to be at letting the fanbase down.

 

[rt]

I hear this from you at least once a year. Must say, you are consistent.

You’re right. They’re great!

 

[TheLegend]

Not as consistent as the Coyotes seem to be at letting the fanbase down.

Meh.... we all knew we sucked 3-4 years ago from the outset. But if you want to take the draft lottery into consideration then that’s an accurate statement.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

It's time to accept that Tocchet's system produces 25% less offense and makes guys (especially pure skill guys) look like shit at 5v5 because there is essentially no plan. Tocc's system is the equivalent of just clearing the ball long and into the opposition's final third in soccer, hoping the defense makes a mistake. It's miserable. It's ineffective against even average coaching. It leads to way more defending than you otherwise would have with a better offense. It will sometimes chew up a team that doesn't want to skate or is just tired, but for the most part, it's bad.

When your options for swapping the players are limited, you swap the middling coach.

Yah I want Tocchet fired too...

If RyJo came here he would not have the same caliber of linemates, Forsberg is better than all of our wingers excluding Hall. I think it's likely his point production would decline here as a result. I do not want another 6.5M+ C that is not a clear 1st liner.

Especially not for OEL. Our D depth will be weak in 2 years with everyone else getting old, while on the flip side we should have developed two top 6 Cs.

 

[RemoAZ]

Not as consistent as the Coyotes seem to be at letting the fanbase down.

A like is not enough. Amen to that brother!

 

[XX]

Yah I want Tocchet fired too...

If RyJo came here he would not have the same caliber of linemates, Forsberg is better than all of our wingers excluding Hall. I think it's likely his point production would decline here as a result. I do not want another 6.5M+ C that is not a clear 1st liner.

Especially not for OEL. Our D depth will be weak in 2 years with everyone else getting old, while on the flip side we should have developed two top 6 Cs.

If the team has soured on OEL and his captaincy, Ryjo is a good flip. It's that simple. It's taking from a strength and addressing a desperate weakness.

You can want steak all you want, but sometimes it's not available, especially for monopoly money. Re-configuring the team is going to take creativity because there's suddenly a lot of a bad money on the books. If you think Ryjo is bad then you should probably take a glance at the UFA market. The top point getter so far is a nearly clapped out Tyler Ennis.

Replacement value for a 2C right now is around $6m a year, so Ryjo is only overpaid by $2m.

It would really come down to the personal fit and if you think Ryjo can bring something to the team or is just another passenger. No more of those, please.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

If the team has soured on OEL and his captaincy, Ryjo is a good flip. It's that simple. It's taking from a strength and addressing a desperate weakness.

You can want steak all you want, but sometimes it's not available, especially for monopoly money. Re-configuring the team is going to take creativity because there's suddenly a lot of a bad money on the books. If you think Ryjo is bad then you should probably take a glance at the UFA market. The top point getter so far is a nearly clapped out Tyler Ennis.

Replacement value for a 2C right now is around $6m a year, so Ryjo is only overpaid by $2m.

It would really come down to the personal fit and if you think Ryjo can bring something to the team or is just another passenger. No more of those, please.

An OEL for RyJo flip would be a very short sighted move and would be another trade that we would come out as losers. RyJo is not what we need, he does not make us a contender. He's a 2C that's looking like a 3C. He doesnt score goals. He has only hit 15 once since 2015.

Our defense will not be a position of strength in 2 years if we move OEL. In 2 years Hammer will be broken, Demers will be bottom pairing and Goligoski will be gone. That leaves us with Chychrun and a magic bean named Soderstrom.

 

[XX]

An OEL for RyJo flip would be a very short sighted move and would be another trade that we would come out as losers. RyJo is not what we need, he does not make us a contender. He's a 2C that's looking like a 3C. He doesnt score goals. He has only hit 15 once since 2015.

Our defense will not be a position of strength in 2 years if we move OEL. In 2 years Hammer will be broken, Demers will be bottom pairing and Goligoski will be gone. That leaves us with Chychrun and a magic bean named Soderstrom.

OEL is playing at 2nd pairing replacement level for over $8m. Getting rid of him and getting a solid (but not spectacular) center return is ideal.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

OEL is playing at 2nd pairing replacement level for over $8m. Getting rid of him and getting a solid (but not spectacular) center return is ideal.

Then in 2 or 3 years we'll have a 8M C playing behind Dvo and Hayton. Stepan all over again.

RyJo only has 35 points this year, only 8 more than Stepan.... he might be behind Dvo and Hayton as soon as next season. I'd rather have Stepan for one more year than RyJo for 5 more. Or I'd rather give Hall 12M a season...

And also if we move OEL where are we finding another top 4 Dman?

 

[CNYCrunchfan1]

Then in 2 or 3 years we'll have a 8M C playing behind Dvo and Hayton. Stepan all over again.

RyJo only has 35 points this year, only 8 more than Stepan.... he might be behind Dvo and Hayton as soon as next season. I'd rather have Stepan for one more year than RyJo for 5 more. Or I'd rather give Hall 12M a season...

And also if we move OEL where are we finding another top 4 Dman?

OEL being a top 4 dman is a common misconception

 

[Sinurgy]

RyJo only has 35 points this year, only 8 more than Stepan...

He also only has 8 more than OEL.

 

[Jakey53]

He also only has 8 more than OEL.

He also has 1 less than DVO, who is at half the salary and younger, and he only has tow more points than Kessel, who everyone has been criticizing all year.

 

[Mangosteen]

Holy Hot Dog.. Kessel is -21

Thats absurd

 

[MIGs Dog]

Holy Hot Dog.. Kessel is -21

Thats absurd

Ovechkin is a -14. Considering he has 43 goals, that's quite an accomplishment. If Kessel scored more I could forgive his +/-

 

[rt]

Holy Hot Dog.. Kessel is -21

Thats musturd

FTFY. And I really relished it. Anyway, hopefully Kessel can get his buns in gear and ketchup with the rest of the team.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I hear this from you at least once a year. Must say, you are consistent.

 

[lanky]

Let's forget about Johansen. Not because he's overpaid or because he would cost us prime assets. Just because he's a low motor player. This team can't handle any more of those.

If we want OEL gone then that's a separate matter. He would return some value in a trade. His contract won't be viewed as an albatross in the trade market quite yet.

 

[Sinurgy]

If we want OEL gone then that's a separate matter.

I wouldn't use the word "we" there. There are some that want him gone for sure but there are many that don't feel that way.

 

[rt]

I wouldn't use the word "we" there. There are some that want him gone for sure but there are many that don't feel that way.

I’d like to see him traded. He’s half the player he was when he signed his extension and I want someone else to be captain. Trouble is I don’t have a candidate (other than Hall) and I don’t really want futures or wingers back for OEL.