Official Calder Thread 2019-2020

[Ace of Hades]

Lol are we really using the allstar game as an argument? Not to mention Hughes was voted in by a popularity contest.

Are you capable of reading?

That poster was just excited to see the two young stars show their skills, and may not have been aware of Makar not being in the all star game.

Not everything has to be a VS match.

 

[Canucks1096]

Makar isn't a franchise defenseman yet, not that I'd consider those you listed as a franchise defenseman either.

You have to admit Makar's rookie season has been as impressive if not moreso than Petterson's rookie year. If you consider Pettersson a franchise C then Makar is a franchise D as well.

It is not a fair way to compare the two, Petey rookie season D+2 and Makar D+3. Makar even confirmed in his D+2 that he wasn't ready for the nhl and need it more time to develope.

Same as comparing Hughes and Maker rookie year. There is a year difference.

If Hughes was the same age? The Calder will definitely be a lot more closer. You probably going to reply and say Development is not linear, that is not the case so far considering Hughes has been better D from age 17 to age 20. If it not linear, Then Makar needs to prove to a better D than Hughes at the same age which he is not proven yet.

 

[avsfan9]

It is not a fair way to compare the two, Petey rookie season D+2 and Makar D+3. Makar even confirmed in his D+2 that he wasn't ready for the nhl and need it more time to develope.

Same as comparing Hughes and Maker rookie year. There is a year difference.

If Hughes was the same age? The Calder will definitely be a lot more closer. You probably going to reply and say Development is not linear, that is not the case so far considering Hughes has been better D from age 17 to age 20. If it not linear, Then Makar needs to prove to a better D than Hughes at the same age which he is not proven yet.

So we should expect Hugh’s to pace 20 goals next year or he will be behind in his linear development. Is that how it is supposed to go?

 

[Canucks1096]

So we should expect Hugh’s to pace 20 goals next year or he will be behind in his linear development. Is that how it is supposed to go?

Are your favorite fruits cherries? You sure love to cherry pick. One skill set is better it doesn't mean he is a better overall D. Subban gets more goals than Keith. Don't think many people will THINK Subban is a better D.

It's such a silly linear argument you guys like to use. Maybe use it when it is proven that Makar is a better D at the same age. It is such a weak argument

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

It is not a fair way to compare the two, Petey rookie season D+2 and Makar D+3. Makar even confirmed in his D+2 that he wasn't ready for the nhl and need it more time to develope.

Same as comparing Hughes and Maker rookie year. There is a year difference.

If Hughes was the same age? The Calder will definitely be a lot more closer. You probably going to reply and say Development is not linear, that is not the case so far considering Hughes has been better D from age 17 to age 20. If it not linear, Then Makar needs to prove to a better D than Hughes at the same age which he is not proven yet.

Hughes and Makar will never be the same age though?

 

[Canucks1096]

Hughes and Makar will never be the same age though?

Then you don't compare them in the same year.

 

[Avs9296]

Hughes and Makar will never be the same age though?

Triggered.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Then you don't compare them in the same year.

Why not be happy top picks turned out well instead of fighting and wishing they were the same age?

What does Hughes catching up to Makars age have to do with anything?

 

[Disappointed EP40]

It's going to be borderline impossible to pass Makar at this point, but Samsonov has played his way into the conversation. I would say he's a finalist if it was announced today.

You're one of those fans that leaves the stadium when you're down two goals too, eh?

Makar is good, but to say it's impossible to catch him 50 games in is silly. Two other rookies are within 3 pts and one is a dman.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Yes I'm sure people at TSN in Canada don't watch much Canucks games.

You'd be surprised.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

No idea why Nucks fan get so offended when people say Hughes isn't Makar tier. No one is sayin he's a bad player, he's just not as good as Makar.

Hughes is a future #1 but Makar looks like he's winning multiple Norris in his career. Hell if Makar didn't miss those games he might've gotten a nomination this year.

Because it's false. Makar is better but it's comical to hear people saying he's on another tier, or so much better, yadda, yadda.

Hughes is a ridiculous game changer. And this is coming from someone that wasn't exactly thrilled about the draft pick.

They're in the same realm, as all stats, eye-test, and anyone who's watched both would suggest. Makar edges out Quinn, but it's not as much as ppl make it out to be.

 

[CherryToke]

Based on this thread, it looks like Kadri took some of his Leafs fans with him to Colorado and converted them to Avs fans.

 

[NuxFan09]

Well no **** look at draft position. At least we didn't waste a top 5 pick on Juolevi

Dude I'd take Juolevi over Makar in a heartbeat.

 

[flying v 604]

Hmmm .... where does TSN have Elias Pettersson?

I am surprised at a lot of the comments on here from Avs fans. Anyone who watches the nucks and understand hockey would understand how good Petey is. Last season teams started smothering him and have taken it to a whole new level this season. The fact that he adapted and avoided the dreaded sophomore slump that most face is telling of how good he is. To be this good at his age put him in a class only a few players are in. He plays a complete game and has actually been unlucky as he is tops in posts and crossbars in the league.

As for Hughes\Makar, both have been insane this season. Makar has the better offensive numbers, while Q has been more impactful defensively while spending most of his ice time with the Horvat shut down line, opposed to the top line. Someone on CDC posted a great article comparing Hughes vs Rasmus and Hughes blew him away in almost every stat. Hughes stats are in the top 98% in the league and have him as a top pairing top 8 dman in the league ahead of Cale, Rasmus, and Miro. Since points seem to be the end-all in Calder voting, I suspect whoever has the most points will win but people who simply look at points as a deciding factor are ignoring what the position is all about. Nevermind the fact Q is a full year younger.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Both are great. However, Makar has the better skill set and higher upside imo. He can put up equally impressive offensive numbers, so far he is doing better, but his build will allow him to be more of an all around player. Also, his goal scoring ability is at a totally different level.

I really wouldn't use ice time as an argument now. The Avs are one of the top teams in the league and can make his rookie year a bit easier for him. At some point he will be a 25 plus min two-way guy that is near the top of D scoring.

 

[Emell]

Because it's false. Makar is better but it's comical to hear people saying he's on another tier, or so much better, yadda, yadda.

Hughes is a ridiculous game changer. And this is coming from someone that wasn't exactly thrilled about the draft pick.

They're in the same realm, as all stats, eye-test, and anyone who's watched both would suggest. Makar edges out Quinn, but it's not as much as ppl make it out to be.

Or better yet maybe some people legitimately don’t see them as THAT close currently (anything could happen in the future, obviously), and posts like this sound like insecurity to those that think so

A lot of the arguments for Hughes sound like excuses or reasoning that ignore the entire context.

He’s only 3 points down? He’s also played almost 20% more games despite being down

The Avs are so much better than the Canucks? There is only a 4 point difference in standings currently

His possession advanced stats are better? Of course a player with a possession focused game has better possession stats than the player than emphasizes quick decision making and explosiveness

Makar has inflated shooting %? His shooting percentage has only really went down when he became less hesitant to take low percentage chance shots, and his production didn’t really falter.

Hughes has more TOI regularly? It’s like a minute difference AND the adv stats say Makar has higher quality of competition

Makar spends all his time with MacKinnon+ the Avs’ best scorers and Hughes does not with the Canuck’s best? Looking at the time played together, it’s actually only 5-10% swing between the two.

Any I’m forgetting?

You’re free to believe these are important points that make the difference much closer, but you really shouldn’t be surprised to see people think they’re not the same tier currently when every argument for same tier has a pretty well founded reason to not think much of. Or be surprised that people see it as insecurity to try so hard to say they are, either

Honestly the most humorous takes is when people try to rationalize this difference in opinion by declaring stuff like “living rent free”... since all they’re doing is trying to use the fact people don’t take their opinion seriously as “proof” of said opinion

There’s room for both opinions to be held with reasonable reasons

 

[Steerpike]

I would guess that Avs fans mostly just watch Makar and are blown away by how good he is. No way are any other rookies this good.

Meanwhile Nucks fans mostly just watch Hughes and are dumbfounded that people think another rookie could be playing at a higher level.

Can we please just channel this mutual misunderstanding into sweet 10 minute long highlight packages of impressive plays from each of them?

Then we will all see that Makar is clearly superior

 

[Muffin]

Not sure where this narrative that Hughes is better than Makar defensively came from, sounds like something Vancouver fans came up with to try to make the two seem closer than they are.

Makar outperforms Hughes in 5 on 5 play AINEC. Hughes is much more of a PP specialist than Makar. Look at their EV production compare to PP production.

There's no chance Hughes will catch Makar in Calder votes or scoring unless Makar gets injured again. The scoring race only got closer because Makar missed those games, the gap will only widen.

This is pretty apparent when you listen to hockey people talk about two. The way they talk about Makar is different from Hughes, Makar is just a special player.

Canucks fans shouldn't offense to this. Hughes will be a #1 Defenseman, but Makar is going to win multiple Norris. Like would you be offended if we said MacKinnon was better than Pettersson? Because that's the gap between Makar and Hughes is to me.

 

[QJL]

Not sure where this narrative that Hughes is better than Makar defensively came from, sounds like something Vancouver fans came up with to try to make the two seem closer than they are.

Makar outperforms Hughes in 5 on 5 play AINEC. Hughes is much more of a PP specialist than Makar. Look at their EV production compare to PP production.

There's no chance Hughes will catch Makar in Calder votes or scoring unless Makar gets injured again. The scoring race only got closer because Makar missed those games, the gap will only widen.

This is pretty apparent when you listen to hockey people talk about two. The way they talk about Makar is different from Hughes, Makar is just a special player.

Canucks fans shouldn't offense to this. Hughes will be a #1 Defenseman, but Makar is going to win multiple Norris. Like would you be offended if we said MacKinnon was better than Pettersson? Because that's the gap between Makar and Hughes is to me.

I don’t think Makar is an equivalent talent to Mackinnon. Make a poll with that assessment and it will be lopsided.

I also think Pettersson absolutely has a chance to be as dominant a player as Mackinnon, although I wouldn’t bet on it. His first two NHL seasons are undoubtedly more impressive than Mackinnon’s 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th season. Don’t speak too soon.

For the record, I’m not a Nucks fan and love Makar. Had him #2 at the draft. He will win the Calder. I just think your argument is a stretch and poor analogy.

 

[Muffin]

I don’t think Makar is an equivalent talent to Mackinnon. Make a poll with that assessment and it will be lopsided.

I also think Pettersson absolutely has a chance to be as dominant a player as Mackinnon, although I wouldn’t bet on it. His first two NHL seasons are undoubtedly more impressive than Mackinnon’s 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th season. Don’t speak too soon.

For the record, I’m not a Nucks fan and love Makar. Had him #2 at the draft. He will win the Calder. I just think your argument is a stretch and poor analogy.

I mean it's a pretty biased take to say Makar isn't MacKinnon's talent level then in the say post say Pettersson could reach MacKinnon level.

Most Avs fans would say Makar is every bit as talented as MacKinnon, he could even surpass MacKinnon as the franchise player. Makar has the physical tools of MacKinnon while having better hockey senses.

 

[QJL]

I mean it's a pretty biased take to say Makar isn't MacKinnon's talent level then in the say post say Pettersson could reach MacKinnon level.

Most Avs fans would say Makar is every bit as talented as MacKinnon, he could even surpass MacKinnon as the franchise player. Makar has the physical tools of MacKinnon while having better hockey senses.

I don’t think Makar is at Mackinnon’s talent level, which is what you expressed. I also don’t think Pettersson is at Mackinnon’s talent level. I think it’s possible both players could get there, it’s just very unlikely. I think you comparing Makar to Mackinnon is the farfetched part of your argument.

I responded to a redraft poll for 2017 and had Makar over Pettersson for reference. I’m not biased.

But here’s your poll... let’s see what the hockey community thinks: Cake Makar: As Talented as Nathan Mackinnon?

 

[Avalanche]

So glad this rivalry is still going.

Seems like just yesterday Canucks fans were arguing Hodgson was better than Duchene

 

[wayninja]

Hughes is really good, Makar is just better.

Well, ok, he may be "slightly" better, but it's super close, why can't we just all be happy?

Man anytime anyone mentions <insert foil to favorite player here> in the same sentence with <insert favorite player here>, <insert foil players fanbase here> goes nuts!

Am I doing this right?

 

[AvsFan29]

I don’t think Makar is an equivalent talent to Mackinnon. Make a poll with that assessment and it will be lopsided.

There’s a good chance that Makar puts up more points in his rookie season, than Mackinnon did (63), as a defenceman. Mackinnon wasn’t on a bad team during his rookie season, so there’s no argument there.

Makar could be on the same level as Mackinnon, and certainly has the tools to do it.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

So glad this rivalry is still going.

Seems like just yesterday Canucks fans were arguing Hodgson was better than Duchene

Seems like just yesterday I was reading a trade proposal from Avs fans that had jost, zadorov and graves for Hughes. Oh wait, that was yesterday