Official: AHL approves Palm Springs, CA as NHL Seattle's AHL team

[Growlers]

New Palm Springs Arena Reportedly in the Works
By Zach Spedden on June 24, 2019 in Hockey, Minor League/Juniors, NHL

A new Palm Springs arena is reportedly is being discussed, with the venue planned for a Seattle-affiliated AHL squad and concerts.

A Seattle NHL expansion franchise is slated to begin to play in the 2021-22 season, and the organization has been exploring its options for launching a minor-league AHL squad in that same season. Palm Springs and Boise have been reported to top two candidates for the location of the AHL team and a plan is apparently in the works to build a new arena in Palm Springs.
An effort backed by Tim Leiweke and Irving Azoff calls for the construction of a new arena to primarily host minor-league hockey and concerts, with concert promoter Live Nation also reportedly involved in the effort. For now, there are still several unknowns, including the site of the potential arena. More from NBC Palm Springs:

Source: New Palm Springs Arena Reportedly in the Works - Arena Digest

Click to read more...

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Not a surprise at all. The Seattle ownership group has been pushing Palm Springs very hard, it clearly has been their favorite over Idaho. Significantly better travel for divisional opponents, which has been the priority considering it's better for prospects to spend as much time off the bus or plane and instead getting on the ice, hitting the gym, and sleeping in their own beds.

 

[JMCx4]

... A new Palm Springs arena is reportedly is being discussed ... in the HF Boards "The AHL" forum.

... Palm Springs and Boise have been reported to top two candidates for the location of the AHL team and a plan is apparently in the works to build a new arena in Palm Springs ... according to several knowledgeable posters in the HF Boards "The AHL" forum.

... According to hockey insiders ... regularly contributing to the HF Boards "The AHL" forum, a minor league hockey team would come to Palm Springs as part of the NHL’s expansion into Seattle. ...

What we’ve also learned is that the venue in Palm Springs would be for hockey and concerts. Concert promoters Live Nation is also said to be involved in the project ... Awright, who missed this one?

 

[gstommylee]

Its not a guarantee it'll actually happen. Its currently being discussed nothing has been finalized.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Not a surprise at all. The Seattle ownership group has been pushing Palm Springs very hard, it clearly has been their favorite over Idaho. Significantly better travel for divisional opponents, which has been the priority considering it's better for prospects to spend as much time off the bus or plane and instead getting on the ice, hitting the gym, and sleeping in their own beds.

Taking over a successful echl market and enforcing a different business model might have some issues to if they chose Idaho.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Taking over a successful echl market and enforcing a different business model might have some issues to if they chose Idaho.

Very true. Idaho's ownership group is notoriously independent minded, not quite as much as Ft. Wayne and SLC, but is still very much concentrated on winning rather than developing kids for someone else. Buying them out would take some doing. Only a handful of players are ever present from their affiliation with the Stars. The fan base clearly develops winning as well. Taking the back road and paying to watch kids develop might not sit well with people who only want to spend their money watching guys compete night in and night out.

Seattle is on record saying they will own the team and it looks like the only way that will happen without some major travel implications is if it's in Palm Springs.

 

[gstommylee]

Very true. Idaho's ownership group is notoriously independent minded, not quite as much as Ft. Wayne and SLC, but is still very much concentrated on winning rather than developing kids for someone else. Buying them out would take some doing. Only a handful of players are ever present from their affiliation with the Stars. The fan base clearly develops winning as well. Taking the back road and paying to watch kids develop might not sit well with people who only want to spend their money watching guys compete night in and night out.

Seattle is on record saying they will own the team and it looks like the only way that will happen without some major travel implications is if it's in Palm Springs.

That's only if they can get the arena built. If an arena can't happen in Pal Springs they have to go to Idaho for the AHL team. It comes down to the arena itself.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

That's only if they can get the arena built. If an arena can't happen in Pal Springs they have to go to Idaho for the AHL team. It comes down to the arena itself.

The ownership group has long said to be interested in the location for a while, that was before these actual plans for the building were in place. The ownership group has two things that no other expansion franchise has ever had this much of: time and money. The organization is a full two years away from dropping the puck and they've spent just under $1 billion and have plenty left over. Their claim has always been that they want to do everything right regardless of the cost, and time and money are two resources for which they are not lacking.

They have a clear plan in mind from the very start, it might not go exactly how they think it's going to go, like the delays and cost increases that KeyArena saw as well as getting pushed a season by the league, but they'll get what they want in the end. There's been plenty of instances in history of people with this much time and money getting what they want, especially when those resources are in abundance like they are here.

And I can't say I blame them. They're trying to do everything correctly, and Palm Springs is significantly more desirable than Idaho is. They get to own the franchise like they said they would, instead of having to force out an owner who doesn't want to sell and a fanbase that's used to competitive teams, not developing youngsters. They get significantly easier travel, which comes with immense financial relief as well as the developmental benefits that come with your precious youngsters getting on the ice, hitting the gym, and sleeping in their own beds more than on the bus or in the airport. If they can get the arena done, Palm Springs is an absolute home run and ought to be the first option, well over trying to fit a round AHL peg in a square Idaho hole.

 

[gstommylee]

The ownership group has long said to be interested in the location for a while, that was before these actual plans for the building were in place. The ownership group has two things that no other expansion franchise has ever had this much of: time and money. The organization is a full two years away from dropping the puck and they've spent just under $1 billion and have plenty left over. Their claim has always been that they want to do everything right regardless of the cost, and time and money are two resources for which they are not lacking.

They have a clear plan in mind from the very start, it might not go exactly how they think it's going to go, like the delays and cost increases that KeyArena saw as well as getting pushed a season by the league, but they'll get what they want in the end. There's been plenty of instances in history of people with this much time and money getting what they want, especially when those resources are in abundance like they are here.

And I can't say I blame them. They're trying to do everything correctly, and Palm Springs is significantly more desirable than Idaho is. They get to own the franchise like they said they would, instead of having to force out an owner who doesn't want to sell and a fanbase that's used to competitive teams, not developing youngsters. They get significantly easier travel, which comes with immense financial relief as well as the developmental benefits that come with your precious youngsters getting on the ice, hitting the gym, and sleeping in their own beds more than on the bus or in the airport. If they can get the arena done, Palm Springs is an absolute home run and ought to be the first option, well over trying to fit a round AHL peg in a square Idaho hole.

And talks in getting the arena in palm springs could go south where OVG and co walks away. There is that possibility. That's what i am saying. It'll come down to can palm springs get that arena.

 

[PCSPounder]

The ownership group has long said to be interested in the location for a while, that was before these actual plans for the building were in place. The ownership group has two things that no other expansion franchise has ever had this much of: time and money. The organization is a full two years away from dropping the puck and they've spent just under $1 billion and have plenty left over. Their claim has always been that they want to do everything right regardless of the cost, and time and money are two resources for which they are not lacking.

They have a clear plan in mind from the very start, it might not go exactly how they think it's going to go, like the delays and cost increases that KeyArena saw as well as getting pushed a season by the league, but they'll get what they want in the end. There's been plenty of instances in history of people with this much time and money getting what they want, especially when those resources are in abundance like they are here.

And I can't say I blame them. They're trying to do everything correctly, and Palm Springs is significantly more desirable than Idaho is. They get to own the franchise like they said they would, instead of having to force out an owner who doesn't want to sell and a fanbase that's used to competitive teams, not developing youngsters. They get significantly easier travel, which comes with immense financial relief as well as the developmental benefits that come with your precious youngsters getting on the ice, hitting the gym, and sleeping in their own beds more than on the bus or in the airport. If they can get the arena done, Palm Springs is an absolute home run and ought to be the first option, well over trying to fit a round AHL peg in a square Idaho hole.

Palm Springs is not a home run. At 15,000 seats, THAT part is a terrible mistake. That's too many.

However, I see where this is coming from. This is Live Nation's deal. The hockey is secondary to them. This is climate controlled concert space.

So I will lay off the "vaporware" comments I've been making. As long as this deal doesn't hit a snag, there will be 5 years of hockey in the place before they realize it sells maybe 200 season tickets per season.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Palm Springs is not a home run. At 15,000 seats, THAT part is a terrible mistake. That's too many.

However, I see where this is coming from. This is Live Nation's deal. The hockey is secondary to them. This is climate controlled concert space.

So I will lay off the "vaporware" comments I've been making. As long as this deal doesn't hit a snag, there will be 5 years of hockey in the place before they realize it sells maybe 200 season tickets per season.

They’re definitely in this for the concerts, and given the area of the country it is in it seems like that would be the profitable part of the venture. Putting the AHL team there seems like it’s a secondary idea along with the SoCal Coyotes who look like they would play there as well. They will certainly would have to curtain off the gigantic upper deck like the Copps Coliseum.

 

[gstommylee]

Application has been submitted for Seattle's AHL team to play starting 2021 in Palm Springs California.

 

[PCSPounder]

They’re definitely in this for the concerts, and given the area of the country it is in it seems like that would be the profitable part of the venture. Putting the AHL team there seems like it’s a secondary idea along with the SoCal Coyotes who look like they would play there as well. They will certainly would have to curtain off the gigantic upper deck like the Copps Coliseum.

The Coyotes are "outdoor football." And possibly a half-scam that will go under soon.

OR... it's the Tacoma Dome all over again. Two hockey teams and an even larger indoor soccer team died in or moved out of that space. I say that because I want you to know that I don't simply pull the "15,000 seats is too big" quote out of my posterior; there's data out there. Heck, Albany happened.

(The more I think about it, given where the concert business is going, 15,000 might be too big for that, too.)

BTW... curtaining seats is ultimately an opportunity cost AND fans know this.

 

[gstommylee]

Sports and Entertainment Arena Coming to Downtown Palm Springs

 

[PCSPounder]

(All the snarky stuff JMCx4 added to a previous quote that didn't survive the transfer here... sheesh!)

I understand your skepticism. But did you read the piece?

It named names (especially names SoCal would know about). It was the NBC affiliate in Palm Springs. What I'm saying is, if you want to learn to read between the lines better, is that this was the first true notice of AHL to Palm Springs in established local media. So I'm now less surprised that a press release suddenly came out. For all my yammering about where's the beef versus "they" who said it was being worked behind the scenes, "they" were essentially right this time.

I put the chances the Coyotes angle gets pushed aside at about 75%. I'm silly like that. Oops... if you see the new piece GS just posted, it's a completely different proposal in downtown Palm Springs versus what the Church guy wants to do for the Coyotes nearer "the 10."

 

[gstommylee]

all we know for the AHL arena that it would be on tribal lands for a 300k square foot 10k+ seat capacity at 250m dollars all priatel. I am guessing its near that tribal resort that's currently there.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

The Coyotes are "outdoor football." And possibly a half-scam that will go under soon.

OR... it's the Tacoma Dome all over again. Two hockey teams and an even larger indoor soccer team died in or moved out of that space. I say that because I want you to know that I don't simply pull the "15,000 seats is too big" quote out of my posterior; there's data out there. Heck, Albany happened.

(The more I think about it, given where the concert business is going, 15,000 might be too big for that, too.)

BTW... curtaining seats is ultimately an opportunity cost AND fans know this.

To be fair, the SoCal Coyotes were pushing for a different arena in a different spot, and their analysis was shaky at best. But, where there is smoke there is fire. With how much emphasis the NHL Seattle ownership was putting on "travel, prospect development" and Palm Springs, it was always going to be chosen over Boise if they could help it.

Also being fair, the Tacoma Dome suffered from not being well suited for hockey. It would appear that this one will be equally well suited for a lot of things, although that comes with a price tag. And Albany happened because of how the team did on the ice, not because of the Times Union Center. Albany were successful in the box office when the team did well. When the River Rats were Calder Cup contenders for several consecutive seasons, attendance shot over 6,000. When they were last in the conference by a large margin, it reflected in the stands. The Devils are also the most apathetic parent team in NHL history, they've burned multiple markets. 15,000 seats is far too big, but they're doing that for the concerts more than the hockey. Curtaining off hasn't effected either Hamilton Bulldogs franchise very much, and it seats over 17,000 for hockey. If they sell out concerts like they plan to, NHL Seattle ownership will be fine curtaining off the top deck to host a 3,000 person crowd for their AHL team.

 

[gstommylee]

To be fair, the SoCal Coyotes were pushing for a different arena in a different spot, and their analysis was shaky at best. But, where there is smoke there is fire. With how much emphasis the NHL Seattle ownership was putting on "travel, prospect development" and Palm Springs, it was always going to be chosen over Boise if they could help it.

Also being fair, the Tacoma Dome suffered from not being well suited for hockey. It would appear that this one will be equally well suited for a lot of things, although that comes with a price tag. And Albany happened because of how the team did on the ice, not because of the Times Union Center. Albany were successful in the box office when the team did well. When the River Rats were Calder Cup contenders for several consecutive seasons, attendance shot over 6,000. When they were last in the conference by a large margin, it reflected in the stands. The Devils are also the most apathetic parent team in NHL history, they've burned multiple markets. 15,000 seats is far too big, but they're doing that for the concerts more than the hockey. Curtaining off hasn't effected either Hamilton Bulldogs franchise very much, and it seats over 17,000 for hockey. If they sell out concerts like they plan to, NHL Seattle ownership will be fine curtaining off the top deck to host a 3,000 person crowd for their AHL team.

Latest out that it'll be at least a 10k seat arena.

 

[JMCx4]

... (All the snarky stuff JMCx4 added to a previous quote that didn't survive the transfer here... sheesh!)

That wasn't snark, that was a tribute post.

And, yes, I did read the piece. I'm simply not as hopeful as you are when it comes to far off hockey team outcomes, no matter how credible the sources may seem.

 

[wildcat48]

NHL Seattle chooses Palm Springs as site for new AHL farm team

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Latest out that it'll be at least a 10k seat arena.

The verbiage is “as many as 10,000 seats or more” means that they’re trying to hit 10k give or take 1-2% overage depending on design.

 

[gstommylee]

The verbiage is “as many as 10,000 seats or more” means that they’re trying to hit 10k give or take 1-2% overage depending on design.

The earlier reports says it was gonna be 15k but when it got announced it was lower to at least 10k.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Was hoping Calgary would look into Palm Springs. But if Idaho was back in the picture it may bring interest in Vancouver bringing their AHL team closer and Utah being back in the mix.

 

[LadyStanley]

Was hoping Calgary would look into Palm Springs. But if Idaho was back in the picture it may bring interest in Vancouver bringing their AHL team closer and Utah being back in the mix.

There are no direct flights from BOI - YYC. Takes ~5 hours to fly the 500+ miles between them, with plane/flight changes.

 

[GindyDraws]

They should have built it in San Bernardino, but I guess they were afraid to be surrounded by poor people, so they rather be surrounded by snowbirds.